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Thread to consolidate info about SAFC/VAFC, SMT-6/7 and EU
There seems to be more and more threads and questions about using devices such as those listed above to manipulate our fuel and timing maps. There are some useful posts spread throughout the forum, but I feel we should make this thread the one to go to for info about tuning devices. Info about tuning capabilities, price, and the best place to buy from are all important info. I'll start off with some info I got off the intraweb.
Apexi SAFC II and VAFC II The S-AFC features a user-definable, eight-point, adjustable fuel curve that can be set in 500 RPM increments. The range of fuel adjustment is +/- 50% at each of the user-defined setting points. On hot-wire vehicles, the Deceleration Air Flow Correction function is capable of curing the erratic idle and stall problems associated with open-atmosphere blow-off valves on hot-wire air-flow meter systems. The S-AFC is capable of monitoring and replaying the following data channels in Numerical, Analog Meter and Graph displays: Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure, Air Flow Capacity, Intake Manifold Pressure, Karmann Frequency, Engine RPM, Throttle Position, and Air Flow Correction %. The VAFC II includes all features of the SAFC II, but includes a vtec engagement adjustment, and works on all newer I-Vtec vehicles. SAFC II Piggyback Fuel Computer Modifies air-flow meter signal (pressure signal in some vehicles) to optimize fuel-air ratio; Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD). The second-generation SAFC is a fuel computer that adjusts fuel/air ratio by modifying the air-flow meter/MAP sensor signal. The SAFC features a user-definable, eight-point, adjustable fuel curve that can be set in 500 RPM increments. The range of fuel adjustment is +/- 50% at each of the user-defined setting points. On hot-wire vehicles, the Deceleration Air Flow Correction function is capable of curing the erratic idle and stall problems associated with open-atmosphere blow-off valves on hot-wire air-flow meter systems. The SAFC is capable of monitoring and replaying the following data channels in Numerical, Analog Meter and Graph displays: Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure, Air Flow Capacity, Intake Manifold Pressure, Karmann Frequency, Engine RPM, Throttle Position, and Air Flow Correction %. SAFC II APEXi's new Super AFC-II has a state of the art visual display lighting called Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD) to provide bright clear visual information. Information can be displayed numerically (analog gauge style) or graphically. The case of the new SAFC II is slimmer & smaller (H52 mm x W126 mm x D18 mm) than the previous model, and houses only a "center button" which toggles & rotates to navigate and select functions of the Super AFC-II. This button is also used to tune the unit. These features make it much easier to program and use the new SAFC II. The new Super AFC II also has a new knock sensor monitor function, which can be a very valuable tool for tuning and safety (for most vehicles with factory knock sensor). The new Super AFC II can also save two programs, allowing the car to be tuned for two different conditions and to have those two programs available at the touch of a button. The warning function can be set up to alert the driver of dangerous engine conditions while driving. These functions include air flow rate, manifold pressure, engine knock, RPM, etc. Air flow or pressure signal can be adjusted at 12 points in 1% increments within a range of +50% to -50%. This is a significant improvement in resolution over the previous SAFC, allowing finer tuning. VAFC II Piggyback Fuel Computer with Integrated VTEC Controller Modifies manifold pressure signal and alters VTEC engagement point on Honda VTEC engines; Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD). APEX introduces the first digital fuel computer that combines fuel computer functions with a VTEC engagement controller. The V-AFC features a user-definable, eight-point, adjustable fuel curve that can be set in 500 RPM increments. The range of fuel adjustment is +/- 50% at each of the user-defined setting points. The Fuel Adjustment function considers wide/narrow throttle and low/high camshaft settings, from which four different fuel maps are created (wide-low, wide-high, narrow-low, narrow-high). The integrated VTEC Controller adjusts the point at which the engine switches from the Lo to Hi cam during acceleration, as well as when the engine switches from the Hi to Lo cam during deceleration. SMT-6 http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp...cts%2Fsmt6.asp SMT-7 http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp...cts%2Fsmt7.asp From this info, it appears as if the VAFC II is superior to the SAFC II because it also allows adjustment of the opening of our intake manifolds (for MEVI or 00VI guys). That appears to be the only difference. Figuring out the specific differences between the SMT-6 and 7 is a little more complicated however. Anybody care to comment? Aside from being able to advance timing, what other advantages does the SMT-6 have over the SAFC/VAFC? Any drawbacks? Hopefully if we can condense enough info in this thread we can help get rid of a lot of nonsense in other threads. If we could get some info about the upcoming Greddy EU, that would also be excellent. Also, since many of these devices go hand in hand with wideband O2 sensors, it would be nice if people could add some info about those to the thread. JWT recommends the Innovate Motorsports wideband w/gauge. I'm sure there are plenty others out there as well. What do you say guys? Can we get enough info in here to make a sticky? As of right now, lets keep the questions to a minimum and get some useful info in here. |
SMT7 can advance more timing and has better tuning features. Has launch control, MAF to MAP, "auto-tune", ect..
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On thing you missed is that the VAFC2 has 24 correction points, instead of the SAFC2 which only has 12.
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Mohd's site is a good start at listing the major features of the EU. There's so many... once everything is working on the VQ30 it will be a powerful tool.
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Originally Posted by Kevlo911
SMT7 can advance more timing and has better tuning features. Has launch control, MAF to MAP, "auto-tune", ect..
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BOOST CONTROL The boost control feature is applicable to turbo installations where the boost must be controlled. This is particular important when the engine is NOT de-compressed, and when a rather small turbo is used. In most cases the engine has the tendency to “ping” between 2000-3000 RPM. The boost control can reduce the boost at the critical RPM and then increase the boost significantly at the higher RPM’s where the airflow is restricted. The Boost control feature can also be used as a standalone function for aftermarket boost control. CLOSED LOOP LAMBDA (FUEL LOOP) The SMT7 can work directly with a narrow (0-1Volt) sensor, or with a 0-5Volt wide band AFR signal from a WBC or other external device. You can run your conversion in closed loop, partial closed loop, or open loop: It is freely programmable! TWO ANALOGUE SCREENS You can tune lambda up to the point when the ECU switches closed loop off, and then you can tune the airflow meter on the second screen. Of course, you can tune ANY two analogue signals simultaneously! LAMBDA TUNING If your engine is closed loop controlled by a narrow band lambda sensor, then you can tune it. Changing the ECU target to a more economical, or to a more powerful setting does this. You can also tune WIDE BAND closed loop, but you can’t see the AFR directly. Of course, you see the effect! INJECTION CONTROL This is for controlling EXTRA injectors, which are placed in the manifold to SUPPLEMENT the original injectors. This is by far the best way to get more fuel in to an engine after adding a supercharger or turbo. IGNITION CONTROL This is a little trickier! The SMT7 can “modify” two engine signals simultaneously, thus giving you retard and advance timing facilities on all engines. Ignition control of complex (multiple gap, CAM pattern) is now possible. SETPOINT CONTROL It is by now a standard feature on all our models. The SMT7 has three set point outputs and 12 set point functions, with the possibility to link functions with a logical AND/OR. Example: Switch a relay on/off when the throttle is more/less than 75% AND RPM is higher/lower than 3000. MORE INPUTS/OUTPUTS Instead of sharing wires between functions, we have assigned a wire to every function. This makes the unit easier to understand and wire up, which results in two connectors with a total of 36 wires. Since there are so many features in the SMT7, Perfect Power will be shipping the units with only a few wires connected and loose pins to make up the rest of the connector. This is done to make the installation neater and not to have excess wires, not being used, hanging around. FREQUENCY MODIFICATION (ROAD SPEED MODIFICATION) The road speed of a vehicle is measured via a frequency, which is proportional to the vehicle road speed. The SMT7 can be used to adjust the frequency to compensate for different tyre size, or to remove the road speed governor. FREQUENCY AIRFLOW MODIFICATIONS Some airflow meters transmit a frequency to the ECU, which is proportional to the airflow. The SMT7 can map this signal (modify the frequency via the ANA2 map), thus allowing you to tune the engines fuel. PWM MODIFICATIONS (FUEL, BOOST) Some PWM signals (such as boost control) just need modification! The SMT7 can modify a PWM signal (Modify the width of the pulse) without changing the frequency, via the ANA2 map. However, the output is a “signal”, and needs to be amplified to drive an injector. NEW SOFTWARE The SMT7 has new software with an easy to use screen layout. The screens have more tuning versatility with extra columns featuring engine temp, air temp and manifold pressure. The “WINDOWS MOUSE” operation has been supplemented by key board commands for row, column and field tuning, which are more accessible when operating a laptop computer in a car. All tuning fields can be labelled in the field, and screens can be turned off if not needed. This is very convenient for customizing the software to your application. LANGUAGE Agh! We are working on it! 8 TUNING SCREENS Each screen refers to a particular tuning operation, and it displays all vital engine data. All setup parameters needed by the operation are located on the screen, which eliminates the need to confirm them, or to switch screens in order to change them. HISTORY The SMT7 provides a driving history, which can be uploaded. MAX RECORDINGS The SMT7 provides a driving history, which can be uploaded. LOGGING Of course, you can log all engine data and some SMT7 data and play it back UPGRADING The SMT7 can be “RE-FLASHED” in the field after receiving the new firmware via the Internet. KNOWN BUGS We are not proud of “bugs”, but we have them. The known bug list is our way of informing you of the next upcoming software changes, and possible “work around” solutions. HELP The manual is linked to the screens and subject index, which facilitates a quick reference. TRIGGER TYPE Most engines are different and have a different trigger. The trigger signal tells the ECU how much an engine has turned and which cylinder is next. 32 trigger types are possible. Most types are applicable to more than one engine and manufacturer. The trigger types are continuously updated, and eventually the most common types can re-flashed to suit your needs. Since there are so many features in the SMT7 Perfect Power will now be shipping the units with only a few wires connected and then loose pins to make up the rest of the connector. This is done to make the installation neater and not to have excess wires, not being used, hanging around. The SMT7 and the SMT6 are going to run parallel, as there are differences between the two products that make them both handy tools. The new development is on the SMT7 however, because it is a “bigger” platform, has more “umpf”, and has more input/output capability. OEM The SMT7 is the ideal OEM tool. It provides a platform for all applications, and we can provide a 4-week “turn-a-round” from idea to medium quantity delivery for your very own customized unit. If that does not excite you, then talk to our engineers. FUTURE The SMT7 has settled down nicely! That is the point when the engineers get restless and think about the future. If you share our enthusiasms then talk to Peter, Rolf or Klaus. |
So the SMT6 and 7 can advance the timing? Even on a 4th gen ecu?
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Originally Posted by oTranscendental
So the SMT6 and 7 can advance the timing? Even on a 4th gen ecu?
Yes. Look at mine and Joe's dyno. SMT7 is still being updated for VQ30's |
Besides price, it would seem to be a better option to go with SMT6/7 due to it having much more features. the v/s - afc2 are just for af tuning but no datalogging.
if the price difference isn that large. . . better to go with SMT and have much more features an ability |
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DandyMax's EU Write-up
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Luke's (gtr_rider) V-AFC II writeup
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I checked out the link for the SMT-7. I am assuming that you connect the unit to the car and use a notebook PC to do the tuning correct? It only mentions windows tuning software so I con only imagine that you are using a PC at that point. The link shows no sort of read out screen if you will like the SAFC... which leads me to the question of how do you know what it is monitoring or if there is some sort of warning. Is there some sort of LCD screen or something that comes with it?
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Jet Performance ECU Upgrade
Never Hijack a thread, start a new one. Jet is worthless, SEARCH and you will be enlightened.
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Quick question does anymore have any experience with AEM's EMS? just curious.
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pinout for 03 please
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Can you use a VAFC instead of a VAFC2?
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yes. just less correction points than a vafc-ii
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Now to make everything even more complicated, SMT-8 has been released (along with a wireless version.) It looks like the decision process is going to hell. My local tuner HATES EU and really is pushing me towards AEM, but getting Stand-Alone won't work so well in NY where I can't get it inspected without an OEM ECU and F/IC won't work because it doesn't have an extended redline.
Up a creek without a paddle, anyone? |
Well, I've had the SMT6 for 4 years now and it still doesn't work on my car! I finally got the urge to find more info on this thing again.... heres what I've found on newTiburon forums... http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/sho....php?p=3322753
98seblackmax said- "I don't know the exact way you guys set the SMT-6 up yet, but I have the SMT-6 on my Maxima and it had the same exact problem the OP has. It would fire up and run ok then after a while the engine would misfire badly, aka go crazy. Three things made it work like a champ. I put a grounding kit in the engine bay, then ran a wire for the SMT ground to the point where all the sensor grounds meet to get rid of any ground offsets, and most importantly I made a low pass RF filter on the crank line to filter out any mid to high frequency noise but allow the crank signal to pass through." Low pass RC filter. I use a surface mount adjustable trimpot resistor and capacitor to filter the crank signal before it goes into the SMT-6. I make a little "black box" that houses all the stuff and people hook up the wires to the SMT-6, crank line, and ECU. I think the problem with the SMT-6 is that it has to work with so many ECUs that they leave the crank signal line without much of a noise filter and if there is spurious noise it throws off the SMT-6. I tried many other methods and the followed the wiring diagram that Perfect Power has for the A32 Cefiro ('95~'99 Maxima). Nothing would stop the random hiccups and misfires, except the filter. Also the global settings had to change and were a bit different than the recomended ones. Best of all the engineers at Perfect Power said it wasn't possible to make it work and I got it to. Then repeated the results twice, so I guess im in the right. Now that is the fix for the Maxima and it can advance up to 10 degrees of timing starting from 3500 RPM to redline (open loop ECU operation). Anymore advance and it throws a crank sensor code because there are two crank sensors and one cam sensor. Only one sensor gets advanced while the other two are left alone, but this still yields about 8~10 WHP and a more lively/responsive engine so I'm happy with the results. The only drawback is after a few hundred miles I will get a EGR code but it doesn't take power away and I just erase it. For emissions I convert the wiring back to stock and pass testing. Quote: Originally Posted by dm****s Setting the High Freq option did help from what I remember when I tested the SMT6 on a V6. The problem is after about 15 minutes the Hyundai ECU would freak out and misfire and put the car in limp mode. If you would be willing to make me one of your black boxes to test on a SMT6 equipped V6 I would pay you for it. Cool that makes sense. I feel the crank shaft sensor operating range is 500 Hz to 7.5 kHz. and the I4 is a 30-2 wheel? So that would make the operating range 250 Hz to 3.75 kHz, which would be fine to have the high freq option shut off. Thats the same symptom my Maxima had without the filter. It would start find and be driveable but after a while you would start to hear a random misfire then it would get worse and worse until the car wasn't driveable. I am a pessimist though and would rather have someone in the NE area come by and see if I can make it work before I send you one. There is a Dynojet 248C at a shop about 20 mins from my house we can test it out and see if the timing works, then make a nice A/F & timing map. " I've done all this stuff and still it runs like crap... Can we get specific part numbers or diagrams for the "black box". My smt6 came with the black box already configured for a vq30 and it just doesn't work on my max... Someone please help me. |
Here is a discussion a few of us have had about the smt6....
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...k-3-0-ecu.html |
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