Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

Did you test which spots are the output on the gang buttons?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I can rule that out for now, because I'm having the same issue as I had with my previous, toggle-operated version that had an on/off to it. It's looking like this on/off switch is the issue here, because once I eliminated it from the equation with the toggle-operated shift_fast, it worked fine and did it's job.

Here, no matter what position the on/off switch is in and no matter what gear I have selected on the gang switch, the TCU/tranny function "normally." It's almost like the switches are somehow being bypassed because I wired it wrong or something

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Have you thought about the fact that you want the OUTPUT pair FROM the TCU to go to BOTH the 4-gang selector switch AND to the "NORMAL" side of the NORMAL/RACE switch?

This way, the NORMAL/RACE switch controls the solenoids from either the TCU directly or from the switch bank. Heh.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

Why would you have it go to the switch and the 4-gang? What would that do? Having the wires go to the switch is supposed to control which way the power will go normal(back to the tcu) or race(over to the 4-gang).

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I do have the output going to both. That's just it. I have 2 "A" wires and 2 "B" wires coming from the switch bank (since that's all that gets used, A+B, B, neither, A) that join together and then a single "A" and single "B" coming from the race/normal switch that join the wires coming from the switch bank.

In my head the way I have it setup should work perfectly. I just don't get it

EDIT: I just read cdg's post and reread your post and I don't get what you're saying.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The output from the switch - the center poles - go to the transmission.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

No - you're supposed to be feeding the transmission solenoids - not the transmission computer.

The wires from the transmission control computer go to one side of the Normal/Race switch - the same wires from the transmission control computer ALSO go to the switch bank. The output from the switch bank goes to the other side of the Normal/Race switch - which feeds to the actual transmission.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

Wait....you should have the A and B wire feeding to the tcu and the 4gang correct? You may need to supply power to each switch section. How many spots are the per switch?

The center spots on the switch are the inputs. Why do they go back to the original tcu wires if the two other wires will do that?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

No - the TCU A and B wires go to BOTH one side of the Normal/Race switch AND to the 4-gang switch. In Normal, the switch completes the circuit for A and B to the transmission. In Race, since the A and B wires always feed the switch bank, then the switch bank output goes to the Race switch position, which feeds the transmission solenoids. This way, the Normal/Race switch controls which pair of A and B signals go to the transmission.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

What you're saying makes no sense. I understand that you're feeding the solenoids, that much I get. But your explanation of how the wires need to be fed makes no sense given how a DPDT switch works.

Why would the wires from the TCU not go into the CENTER of the race/normal switch? If they do indeed need to go to one side or another, that's my problem. I have the wires FROM the TCU going into the center of the race/normal switch.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yup, that's the problem. Remember, I've built a couple of versions of the Shift_Fast that work as-advertised.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

still makes no sense to me. I thought the DPDT switch has input in the center. then the top and bottom points were outputs....?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

OK - you wired the switch bank so that both A and B wires from the TCU go to three of the four switches, right? 3rd gear is actually both solenoids off, so no wiring needed for 3rd gear. The same A and B wires go to 1st, 2nd, and 4th gear buttons. You have an A and B wire leaving the switch bank, right? These two go to the RACE side of the Normal/Race switch. The TCU A and B wires go to the Normal side of that DPDT switch. The switch bank decides whether the A wire and the B wire are actually energized, depending on the gear you selected. The output from the switch bank goes to the Normal/Race switch.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

So if I switch my wires around and have the input going into one side of the DPDT switch, what positions do I need to have the toggle switch in to do their corresponding functions?

Like, for example, let's say input is on the "bottom," normal is the "middle," and the race is on "top." Would that work? Would I simply leave it in the center-off position for normal and flip it up to "top" for race?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Wow that post left me a little confused. Could you possibly use the diagrams I made with the 5 DPDT's on them to explain this in detail a little better?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The NORMAL/RACE switch must be DPDT with no center-off position. None. Nada. Just NORMAL or RACE...

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Then what's the point in it being DPDT? Why not just DPST?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I've gotta go out and tend to some business. I'll work on this later with you guys. Sheesh, you're gonna make me draw this one out, aren't you ?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I already drew it out for you. You can use my picture to explain it like I tried to explain how I have it wired up right now. Not really all that hard. Take the 5 minutes to write it out using my diagram and I will paypal you 1 dolla

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

It just doesnt make any sense when you explain it. It needs to be drawn out. I thought having the power go into one part of the switch then routing back to the tcu wires and having the other side go to the switch bank would work. But apparently not. drawing is a must now.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

A drawing is definitely going to be needed. I think I have the concept down in my head, but if I'm using a DPDT center-off switch I think that's going to screw things up a little. I wonder if I can get away with having the center-off switch as long as I don't use the center pins?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

This is the original schematic diagram I posted some time ago. Study this and you should see what I meant....

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...SHIFT_FAST.jpg


Classy, huh ?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I'm starting to understand how you have it there. My question is, can I make the race/normal switch work with a DPDT center-off, or does it have to be a "standard" DPDT?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

If you use a center-off switch and leave the switch in the center position, then you are stuck in 3rd gear - both A and B solenoids not energized... no other harm done.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Alright dude, I thought I understood your diagram. I thought I FINALLY got it.

Nope.

Wired everything up completely different. Even tried switching some wires around. Any and all combinations resulted in: the switches being bypassed and the TCU being operated normally (regardless of what position the normal/race switch was in) or being stuck in gear (i.e. 3rd or 4th). Yes, all my connections were good.

I JUST DON'T GET IT.

You're going to have to make a diagram of how you think this push-button setup is supposed to work, because I just can't do it. No matter what I try, it does the same thing. I give up...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Get a good night's sleep, look my diagram over, be sure you understand what goes on with my working version. Slow is good... You've got something wrong in your concept of how this mod works... Flush the brain, study the diagram... Stare into my eyes.... no, that's for the college girls....

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Ok, but I thought I understood it. I'm a person who either gets it or doesn't. If I don't understand your diagram now, a night's sleep isn't going to help. As far as I'm concerned, mine is wired exactly like the diagram you linked to. Only difference is I have the wires split that are going TO the switch bank (since there are multiple switches vs. a single toggle switch controlling the gears). That is the only difference I implemented.

I even switched wires around thinking maybe I had them backwards. Nope. No dice. Nothing works.

EDIT: I have one more combination I can try tomorrow, and I want to try insulating things from each other a little bit better (on the overkill side). It's getting way too late to try it tonight...I hope to god it works tomorrow, though.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Well, being "wired exactly" isn't the same as "only difference is" ....... If you wire exactly as shown, then your results will be exactly the same as my mod - it will work.

Years of personal experience says "don't try to justify what you've done wrong - just fix it". Sorry for the slam, but everybody modding a car needs to be able to go back a step, if something doesn't work, and try and understand why it doesn't work. That happens to me - a lot, lately, but I'm going to solve my 330' issues by re-examining everything I'm doing, and correcting whatever looks or feels bad to me. Replacing the nitrous feed lines with larger lines is one step. Re-dynoing is another, along with re-tuning if required.

I did learn that cutting spray during gear-change is a Good Thing. It took feedback from several people, but I got it....

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

AHH IT WORKS! IT WORKS, IT WORKS, IT WORKS! I am so happy

Well, sorta. I got 1st through 3rd to work. 4th I believe was only not working due to a loose connection, which I'm going to fix and test over again.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

Awesome Pat. Did you swap it like grey told us?

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I dunno what it is you're referring to "swapping," but I pretty much redid my wiring entirely. I used the same concept, but started fresh with his input. Not really sure how to explain it.

Also, I can get 1st through 3rd to work flawlessly but can't get the transmission to shift into 4th with the switch bank. I've checked for loose connections, made sure everything was insulated (so nothing was touching), etc. I've run out of ideas as to why it won't work. Given that no one has ever tried this before are we SURE 4th is indeed "A"-only?

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

So how fast does it shift

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Try it for yourself and find out

Let's put it this way, other than sheer number of gears and the gearing, this gives you no reason to have a 5-speed at the track

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I'm not sure, yet, - but the FSM defines each solenoid for each gear. Sounds like you have a little more cross-checking to do.

Good job.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

.
Oh, while you're "up" on this mod, how would you feel about another mod that extends the rev limit of your stock ECU to 8000 RPM? That doesn't require anything other than a piggyback card wired to the injectors? That doesn't affect the ECU in any way? That is potentially cheap - $100.00 ???

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Gahh I know it's driving me nuts not being able to figure out why. The solution should be right in front of my face! lol
You have my attention

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

The timing is very odd past 6500(mine jumped like 5-6 degrees) so it might not be too boost/nitrous friendly. You will need something to control timing as well.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Thanks - something else to check w/conzult....

My 4-gang switches are "in the mail" - I'll grind out a working 4-gang shifter when the parts are here. It's cake to install an assembled unit.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I just doubled-checked the FSM manual, and 4th gear is "A -closed" "B open", which matches what you expected.

The first major step with the stock ECU is to defeat the programmed fuel-cut at 6550 RPM. This can be done by a piggyback circuit that controls each injector solenoid so that if: A. you go WOT and B. you exceed 6550, each injector will continue to spray at the same timing it did at 6500 RPM, on up until your engine flys apart.

If you don't go WOT, then fuel-cut rules apply. You can adjust each injector's timing with a variable resistor and red/green LED, so the change from ECU control to piggyback control is seamless if you exceed 6550 AND go WOT.

Until I build and test the whole thing, no guarantees, but this looks fairly simple to do. I'm sure there will other surprises, but I want to do this for myself. More to follow. Hey, the UPS guy just delivered two 4-gang switches - the ones w/o the box - and they look good! More fun.