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-   -   3rd gen VQ35DE Full ECU Swap Progress Thread (https://maxima.org/forums/all-motor/573975-3rd-gen-vq35de-full-ecu-swap-progress-thread.html)

Aaron92SE 01-17-2014 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by t6378tp (Post 8901833)
Damn I'd luv to delete my abs, maybe one day when I get bored

Yeah, I can't believe it's taken me this long. The way I did it isn't all that easy. It's tough getting all the lines out. I basically cut the old lines out. But I had to get the lines out of the parts car without cutting them. I wanted to NOT deal with cutting and flaring these lines.

And my 92 Maxima SE has those load leveling sensors in the rear. So I removed those heavy things and bent the lines carefully to installed an OEM coupler I got from the parts car. This evening, I will add fluid and bleed the lines and check for leaks.

SpeedCrazie 01-17-2014 06:48 PM

With that dyno what did you use to tune??

Aaron92SE 01-18-2014 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by speedcrazie (Post 8902520)
with that dyno what did you use to tune??

utec

Aaron92SE 01-18-2014 01:45 PM

Quick Update: I just weighed all of the ABS components and they came in at 29lbs! That includes the actuator, lines, bolts, 4 ABS sensors, and two load level sensors in the rear.

Aaron92SE 02-16-2014 04:26 PM

The first All Motor Maxima in the 11s!! New world record!

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...20Timeslip.jpg

I went to the track today with the latest Edge Racing torque converter prototype installed. The torque converter only stalled at about 3800 rpm today. But more testing is needed before we revisit the drawing board for a converter change. So that is why we didn't see a low 1.7 or high 1.6 60 foot as expected.

Also, for some reason, I lost the speed signal going to my SSv4 standalone transmission computer. So I lost the ability to automatically shift. So I had to manually shift all day with one hand on the steering wheel. Fortunately, the car tracked straight on the launch, so it wasn't a problem.

Also, the 22" MT slicks are now showing cords. So I was only able to safely get 3 passes in before we decided to officially retire these slicks.

With another track visit and these issues fixed and a higher transmission temp, we're hoping to see a 3900-4000 stall out of the converter. I also will experiment with different types of launches such as launching off idle versus stalling it up.

Thanks for your support. We hope to release an official video within the next couple days!

krazy6 02-16-2014 05:47 PM

Sweet! Way to go! It's been a long time coming! :D

Aaron92SE 02-16-2014 05:58 PM

Here's the full slip:

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...ip-Details.jpg

Fakie J Farkerton 02-16-2014 07:31 PM

:king2:

Dzaccord 02-17-2014 04:46 AM

WOW!! Those are AWESOME numbers! We knew you'd do it and we're looking forward to the future runs as well. That's a great accomplishment!

DandyMax 02-18-2014 09:25 AM

Wow this is what you miss when you have been gone forever.

Great accomplishment Aaron, congrats!

Aaron92SE 02-18-2014 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by Fakie J Farkerton (Post 8916389)
:king2:


Originally Posted by Dzaccord (Post 8916484)
WOW!! Those are AWESOME numbers! We knew you'd do it and we're looking forward to the future runs as well. That's a great accomplishment!


Originally Posted by DandyMax (Post 8917121)
Wow this is what you miss when you have been gone forever.

Great accomplishment Aaron, congrats!

Thanks guys!

I am still striving for those 1.6 60 foots that I know are possible with an All Motor automatic! I only need the right torque converter configuration! We'll figure it out.

t6378tp 02-18-2014 11:12 AM

congraz

Nismo87SE 02-18-2014 08:07 PM

Congrats on reaching your goal!! I know it's been a long time coming :)

Aaron92SE 02-20-2014 02:45 PM

World's Fastest All Motor Maxima runs 11s! NEW VIDEO!


Aaron92SE 02-28-2014 09:14 AM

Since my last update, I fixed the issues I was having at the track when I ran 11.97. I lost my speed signal going to my SupraStick TCM that day, so I had to manually shift on all 3 of my passes as you may have noticed from my latest video above. Well, that turned out to be an easy one to fix. When I was removing my ABS components and converting over to manual brakes, I got a little too happy with the weight reduction and I removed the ABS sensors on both of my front wheels. Well, I forgot that the speed signal for the Suprastick is coming from the front left ABS sensor. Once I plugged that back in, the car shifts perfectly once again.

Also, at the track, I was having a small ATF leak and I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. It was so small that it didn't leak a drop on the track, but it was a fine mist of ATF spraying around my engine bay while I raced. So I decided to put the car on the trailer. Fluid on the track is never OK! When I got the car back in the shop, I inspected everything and it turned out to be spraying out of the vent breather tube. I'm not sure why since the fluid level was dead on! I checked the level several times in the pits before every single pass. So, a couple days ago, I rigged up a small catch can until I can figure it out.

And I got new 22" MT slicks installed on the Rota Slipstream wheels along with NHRA approved metal valve stems now that I am running 11.99 or faster. :) I measured the circumference of both slicks after mounting them on the wheels. According to MT, they need to be within 3/4" of each other. And one slick was just under 3/4" than the other slick. So I was able to stretch that slick by putting 35psi in it for about 5 minutes. Then let out all the air and pump back up to 20psi and measure again. I did this only twice before I was able to get both slicks to match perfectly!

And these new slicks are SOFT! Much softer than my old worn out slicks that I retired.

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...%2022x8x15.jpg

I hope to hit the track this weekend again to further test out this latest prototype torque converter. It stalled at 3800 rpm in the first 3 passes at 145 degrees ATF temp. I need to fluid to be at operating temp, which is 160-180 degrees. With the ATF being up to temp, it will be a lower viscosity, which will help increase the stall of the converter on the launch. I'm not sure how much that will help though, but I am hoping to see a noticeable increase.

I don't even have my auxiliary tranny cooler installed. I removed that years ago due to my ATF temps being too low. Well, they are still too low right now, especially in the winter. So the other day, I bypassed the stock cooler completely and just looped the line. I took the car out for a 30 minute test session and drove it a 1/2 mile and let it idle while in gear. I was able to get the temp up to 120 degrees quicker than before, I think. I will do more testing today and see if I can get it above 160 degrees. And if the tranny gets too hot while at the track, it'll be easy to connect the tranny cooler back up and go for another pass.

And since my engine wakes up at 4100rpm, the closer I stall to that rpm, the more the stall will increase solely based on the increased torque! So I am hoping that with the ATF being hotter, I will see a 100rpm increase. And with that 100rpm increase in stall, since my engine makes 10 more ft-lbs of torque, it should increase the stall even further! Hopefully, I can see a 4000+ stall this weekend. That would be nice!

If this doesn't work, I may experiment with the low viscosity Racing ATF from Redline. Maybe I will be able to squeeze out another 100-200rpm of stall with this fluid. I just don't know how my tranny will shift with this fluid. I'm not sure if it will like the lower viscosity.

But once thing is for certain, I am so close to seeing a stall at peak torque that with these minor tweaks, I could be seeing a 4200+ stall while flashing the converter off idle. And I know this converter is capable of stalling up to 4700 rpm since that is what I see when I do a stall test locked in 3rd gear at a standstill. But due to less engine load in 1st gear, I only saw a 3800 stall last time out. If I had a transbrake, I would be able to achieve this 4700 stall, but I can't find anybody that makes anything like that for a Nissan tranny.

Here is what my torque curve looks like:

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...ncorrected.jpg

See how my engine starts making peak torque at 4100rpm? If I can flash there, I will be good to go! I can smell those 1.6 60s! :)

Aaron92SE 02-28-2014 01:53 PM

Another update: I just did some more testing with the looped transmission line (bypassed cooler) and it does seem to reach a higher temp faster than before. I drove the car for about 40 minutes and it barely reached 150 degrees. After a pass or two down the track, I bet I will be able to see 160+ degrees no problem and get this converter to stall higher!

Another trick I can do, which I highly recommend nobody try, is to lock the tranny in 2nd gear and stall it up while holding the brakes. I am able to see a 4500 stall using this method and it doesn't overpower the brakes. Then, when I launch the car, I drop it down to 1st gear while I go wide open throttle and release the brakes. But this is VERY rough on the tranny and I really don't want to do this. It's just a crazy idea that should work when you have a 4700 stall converter like I have without a transbrake.

krazy6 03-02-2014 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8921656)
Another update: I just did some more testing with the looped transmission line (bypassed cooler) and it does seem to reach a higher temp faster than before. I drove the car for about 40 minutes and it barely reached 150 degrees. After a pass or two down the track, I bet I will be able to see 160+ degrees no problem and get this converter to stall higher!

Another trick I can do, which I highly recommend nobody try, is to lock the tranny in 2nd gear and stall it up while holding the brakes. I am able to see a 4500 stall using this method and it doesn't overpower the brakes. Then, when I launch the car, I drop it down to 1st gear while I go wide open throttle and release the brakes. But this is VERY rough on the tranny and I really don't want to do this. It's just a crazy idea that should work when you have a 4700 stall converter like I have without a transbrake.

That's awesome! I was just actually going to suggest locking the transmission in 3rd gear and then shifting it down into 1st at the lights.

Great to see you had the same idea. I saw this with the 4L80E transmission guys as a form of building boost with turbo cars.

Car should 60 foot in the 1.6s with this mod! :D

Aaron92SE 03-03-2014 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by krazy6 (Post 8922392)
That's awesome! I was just actually going to suggest locking the transmission in 3rd gear and then shifting it down into 1st at the lights.

Great to see you had the same idea. I saw this with the 4L80E transmission guys as a form of building boost with turbo cars.

Car should 60 foot in the 1.6s with this mod! :D

The tranny held together yesterday after 4 passes of stalling it up to 4500rpm in 2nd gear and kicking it down to 1st on the launch. Traction became an issue. So I wasn't able to hook up. With a 4500rpm launch, it's a completely different car! I was only able to run 12.2s yesterday, but I learned a lot in this TnT session!

1.6s are my goal once I get the slicks hooking. I will try to post all the details from yesterday within the next day or so when I have more time.

krazy6 03-03-2014 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8922784)
The tranny held together yesterday after 4 passes of stalling it up to 4500rpm in 2nd gear and kicking it down to 1st on the launch. Traction became an issue. So I wasn't able to hook up. With a 4500rpm launch, it's a completely different car! I was only able to run 12.2s yesterday, but I learned a lot in this TnT session!

1.6s are my goal once I get the slicks hooking. I will try to post all the details from yesterday within the next day or so when I have more time.

I actually don't think it would really be that hard on the transmission.

That's good news! Car is going to run some nice 11 second passes when you get it to hook!

Aaron92SE 03-04-2014 01:03 PM

Update: This past Sunday, I went to the drag strip again and got 6 passes in. On the first 2 passes, I launched off idle and saw 3800-3900 stall. I finally am able to get the ATF up to temp above 160 degrees. That is how I was able to see a 3900 stall, which is the highest so far to date by launching off idle. I ran a 12.27@111.95mph w/ 1.85 60 foot with the 3800 launch and a 12.24@111.39mph w/ 1.81 60 with 3900 launch.

The ATF temps were just fine all day long without running any transmission cooler at all. The highest ATF temp I saw all day was 178 degrees. But it quickly cooled down to 160 by the end of the 1/4 mile.

On the last 4 passes of the day, I was playing around with stalling it up in 2nd gear and quickly downshifting to 1st on the launch. This proved to work pretty well. In 2nd gear, I was able to stall it up to about 4500 rpm without overpowering the brakes. Then, I manually shifting down to 1st gear on the launch and the revs pretty much stayed above that through 1st gear. I think the datalog showed it launching at 4500, dropping to 4300 or so, then quickly going up from there. As long as it stays above 4100rpm (the start of my peak torque), I am happy.

On my first attempt, the car revved up so fast in 1st gear, that I got flustered and shortshifted the 1-2 shift at 6000rpm. Then I bogged in the bottom of 2nd gear due to that. I ran a 12.62 w/ a 1.93 60 foot. The slicks just spun all the way through 1st gear instead of hooking.

Then, I tried again with the same tire pressure and spun the slicks through 1st gear again and got a 12.61 w/ a 1.94 60 ft. I still short shifted at 6500rpm in the 1-2 shift. It's not easy to do all these things at once and push a button exactly at the right time for the 1-2 shift, which comes pretty quickly.

I then lowered the pressure from 22psi to 18 psi. 22psi works just fine for me if I launch off idle and the track is prepped well, which it was earlier in the day. I made another pass with a much better burnout and got a 12.51 w/ 1.87 60ft. I still spun all the way through 1st gear. And I still short shifted at 6500rpm!

After that, I only had enough time to do one more pass before the track shut down for the day. So I lowered my pressure to 16psi. My goal is to shift at 7300rpm exactly. But I still short shifted at 6900rpm and bogged a tiny bit in the bottom of 2nd gear. I ran a 12.25 w/ 1.81 60 ft. And the slicks will spun through 1st gear! My trap speeds on all 6 passes ranged from 111.32 - 111.97mph. So the engine was solid and consistent. I am just trying to get consistency from my converter, which I know I can do once I figure it out.

On the 2nd pass of the day, that 1.81 I cut was pretty much a dead hook since I launched off idle and flashed to 3900rpm. But, this is a MUCH harder launch at 4500rpm and it breaks the slicks loose a lot easier. Plus the track surface was garbage near the end of the day since the big slick cars stopped running a long time ago and the only cars that were running were street tire cars. Street tires chew up the surface instead of laying down a smooth layer of rubber.

So, the next time I hit the track, I should be able to hook up earlier in the day with the 4500rpm launch when the track surface is at it's best. I should be able to see a low 1.7 60 foot. 1.6s are my goal though.

Also, I am still getting ATF blowing out of my vent tube on my transmission after installing this new converter. The fluid level is perfectly at the full mark. But I'm not sure if a higher stall converter can somehow increase the pressure of the transmission. I am using the same exact fluid. The catch can setup I installed worked perfectly all day though.

And most importantly, I wonder if there is anyway I can get my Suprastick to start in 2nd gear and once I go over 90% throttle, it kicks down to 1st gear for the launch. Then, it proceeds to shift normally for the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. If anybody has any ideas how to do something like this with the SSv4, please post and let me know. I am able to shift to another shift map on the fly. So, maybe I can switch to another shift map just after the launch when I'm still in 1st gear. Any thoughts?

Aaron92SE 03-04-2014 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by krazy6 (Post 8923138)
I actually don't think it would really be that hard on the transmission.

That's good news! Car is going to run some nice 11 second passes when you get it to hook!

You think so? It makes me feel like I am doing a neutral drop! But it definitely doesn't clunk when I do it. It just launches at a higher rpm in 1st gear.

I would still prefer to be able to flash from idle to 4100+. So I may try some of that low viscosity racing fluid from Redline. The lower viscosity should raise my flash stall 100-200 rpm I would guess. That would put me right at 4100rpm or so. But I don't know how my tranny will like it and how it will shift.

Launching off idle seems to get the slicks to hook perfectly every time. But it is only at 3900rpm, which is MUCH less power than at 4500rpm.

Stalling it up in 2nd gear has always been a bigger shock to the tires in the first few inches of the race causing them to break loose before the car even starts moving. If I launch off idle, the car seems to move a little first, then the converter stalls and slicks have enough time to grab. It's a smoother way to lay down the power on the launch.

krazy6 03-04-2014 06:36 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8923514)
You think so? It makes me feel like I am doing a neutral drop! But it definitely doesn't clunk when I do it. It just launches at a higher rpm in 1st gear.

I would still prefer to be able to flash from idle to 4100+. So I may try some of that low viscosity racing fluid from Redline. The lower viscosity should raise my flash stall 100-200 rpm I would guess. That would put me right at 4100rpm or so. But I don't know how my tranny will like it and how it will shift.

Launching off idle seems to get the slicks to hook perfectly every time. But it is only at 3900rpm, which is MUCH less power than at 4500rpm.

Stalling it up in 2nd gear has always been a bigger shock to the tires in the first few inches of the race causing them to break loose before the car even starts moving. If I launch off idle, the car seems to move a little first, then the converter stalls and slicks have enough time to grab. It's a smoother way to lay down the power on the launch.

The way I look at it, I imagine it being the same stress as a WOT downshift from 2nd to 1st. Transmissions are fine downshifting under power, they do it all the time. I could be 100% wrong though lol

Aaron92SE 03-05-2014 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by krazy6 (Post 8923785)
The way I look at it, I imagine it being the same stress as a WOT downshift from 2nd to 1st. Transmissions are fine downshifting under power, they do it all the time. I could be 100% wrong though lol

Yeah, I agree. But, I really don't like downshifting an automatic at WOT. It's one of the big "no no's" if you want to make an RE4F04 transmission hold 300-400whp. So I always try to be nice to my transmission whenever possible and only go WOT in the upshifts.

My last unit lasted 213K abusive miles! The unit that's in my car now was a freebie that was given to me and it's still holding up after 20 passes down the 1/4 mile. I have no idea how many miles are on this tranny.

And I will probably still mess around with this '2nd to 1st' type launch since I'm willing to accept whatever that ends up breaking. I really want to get the slicks to hook consistently using this method. Then if I am competing in a big heads up event and need to shave 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, I'll launch this way. But if it's a normal TnT, I feel better launching off idle and flashing the converter.

But I agree with you. It's probably a similar amount of stress if I was just cruising in 2nd gear at 4500rpm and went WOT and let the stock TCM downshift into 1st gear for me. I don't think it's nearly as harsh as a 4500 rpm neutral drop though. I was just exaggerating.

Aaron92SE 03-07-2014 01:53 PM

I talked to Garrett, the creator of the Suprastick. In order to create an automatic shift map to allow me to stall up in 2nd gear and kick down to 1st, I can do it a couple different ways. The way I thought of is to put 0mph in the 2>1 kickdown column from 0% to 90% throttle position. Then, above 90%, I enter something like 25mph. That way, it will kickdown to first gear when I'm at WOT and less than 25mph. He said this should work. But we see a major flaw doing it this way. When I am stalling it up in 2nd gear, if I accidentally flicker above 95% throttle, then it will kick me down to 1st gear and I overpower my brakes and REDLIGHT! I can't have that happening! But doing it this way will allow me to keep my burnout map, which starts me in 1st gear and shifts to 2nd gears shortly after that and holds me there. If I start my burnout in 2nd gear, the tires spin too fast too quickly and I don't get a good solid burnout.

Garrett's idea was to create a different map all together and lose my burnout map. This map will lock me in 2nd gear no matter what the throttle position or speed of the car is. The brake signal will control which map I will be in. So as soon as I release the brakes to launch the car, it will instantly switch me over to my regular shift map for the 1/4 mile starting in 1st gear. I plan to wire things up before the next time I hit the track within the next 2-3 weeks.

As for my burnout, I will need to relocate my manual shifter switch to the very end of the parking brake handle. That way, I can pull the ebrake and shift to 2nd with my right hand. Right now, the switch is at the base of the handle.

By being able to shift automatically and do this 2nd gear type launch, it will ensure that I am able to hit my 7300 rpm shift points precisely. Now, I will only have to worry about getting these slicks to hook with a 4500 rpm launch!

Also, I talked to Andre at Edge Racing today and gave him an update about all my testing. He is able to get me another 100-300 rpm of stall by machining a fresh billet aluminum stator blank. All without sacrificing any efficiency! So that's good. I was thinking this converter stall was maxed out without tapping into efficiency. But that's not the case. I was ready to start experimenting with Lightweight Racing ATF that has a lower viscosity in order to perhaps squeeze an extra 100-200 stall out of the converter. But I'm not going to worry about that until after the new stator is installed, probably sometime in April or May.

Aaron92SE 03-25-2014 08:21 AM

I went to the track this past weekend to test out the new Suprastick setup. There is a half second delay when switching from manual to auto or switching from one shift map to another. So, when I launch while flipping the switch at the same time, it launches in 2nd gear and 5 feet down the track, it finally kicks down to 1st gear and the slicks break loose. So right now, I'm still working on finding a solution in order to stall up in 2nd gear and launch in 1st.

If I manually shift, it kicks down to 1st gear instantly. So I may rig up a button/switch setup that I can push on the launch to manual downshift to 1st. Then before the 1-2 shift happens, I will need to switch over to the auto map, which has a half second delay. The delay won't be problem since I will be in 1st gear for at least a second or two. I just have WAY too many switches to flip while trying to cut a good light. It's not easy.

And with this new Suprastick setup, I lost my automatic burnout shift map. So, I have to lock the parking brake, start my burnout in 1st gear and manually shift to 2nd gear, then release the parking brake. It's not as hard as it sounds. It's pretty easy and more effective than my burnout map which made the 1-2 shift instantly when I hit 5K+ rpm. When I manually shift, I am able to spin the tires for a full second in 1st gear and get a nice coating of water on them, then as soon as I shift to 2nd, I get instant smoke and a very consistent burnout. The smoke coming from both tires are pretty even. Before, I would sometimes see more smoke from one tire than the other.

Also, this past weekend, I was able to get my ATF temp up to 190 degrees and saw a 4000 stall off idle. The last time at the track, I saw a 3900 stall off idle when the ATF temp was 165-175 degrees. 190 degrees is the highest I want to go because when I see 190 degrees with the sending unit located in the tranny pan, it's actually 205 degrees at the top of the tranny casing and even hotter in my torque converter.

I am still not running a tranny cooler.

grey99max 03-25-2014 11:32 AM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8932557)
I went to the track this past weekend to test out the new Suprastick setup. There is a half second delay when switching from manual to auto or switching from one shift map to another. So, when I launch while flipping the switch at the same time, it launches in 2nd gear and 5 feet down the track, it finally kicks down to 1st gear and the slicks break loose. So right now, I'm still working on finding a solution in order to stall up in 2nd gear and launch in 1st.

If I manually shift, it kicks down to 1st gear instantly. So I may rig up a button/switch setup that I can push on the launch to manual downshift to 1st. Then before the 1-2 shift happens, I will need to switch over to the auto map, which has a half second delay. The delay won't be problem since I will be in 1st gear for at least a second or two. I just have WAY too many switches to flip while trying to cut a good light. It's not easy.

And with this new Suprastick setup, I lost my automatic burnout shift map. So, I have to lock the parking brake, start my burnout in 1st gear and manually shift to 2nd gear, then release the parking brake. It's not as hard as it sounds. It's pretty easy and more effective than my burnout map which made the 1-2 shift instantly when I hit 5K+ rpm. When I manually shift, I am able to spin the tires for a full second in 1st gear and get a nice coating of water on them, then as soon as I shift to 2nd, I get instant smoke and a very consistent burnout. The smoke coming from both tires are pretty even. Before, I would sometimes see more smoke from one tire than the other.

Also, this past weekend, I was able to get my ATF temp up to 190 degrees and saw a 4000 stall off idle. The last time at the track, I saw a 3900 stall off idle when the ATF temp was 165-175 degrees. 190 degrees is the highest I want to go because when I see 190 degrees with the sending unit located in the tranny pan, it's actually 205 degrees at the top of the tranny casing and even hotter in my torque converter.

I am still not running a tranny cooler.

I gotta admit - you are persistent when developing something. My take-away from this post is that the stall RPM can go up when the tranny temp goes up. I did not know that, but with my B&M tranny cooler, I could automatically kick on a big-o fan when the temp gets up to a set point. My tranny temp sensor is right on the pressure line coming out of the transmission and displays on a Cybedyne gauge on top the dash so I would know what's happening.

For what it's worth, I sometimes use a 4-stack of DP-DT inline interlocked push button switches, mounted in a box on the console, wired to set and shift gears on demand. This is good for dyno days, and just maybe for stalling up in 2nd gear and dropping down to first at the launch. That may require more coordination than I have, but worth trying since the shifts are immediate with the manual PB switches. This might be really effective with my built Altima 4AT w/4.5 final drive gears and locked diffy. Hmmmm....

Your posts are always interesting. :eek:

EDIT: This kind of DPDT PB switch bank, interlocked so only the pushed one is active.

http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWPushB-2.html

Aaron92SE 03-26-2014 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by grey99max (Post 8932642)
I gotta admit - you are persistent when developing something. My take-away from this post is that the stall RPM can go up when the tranny temp goes up. I did not know that, but with my B&M tranny cooler, I could automatically kick on a big-o fan when the temp gets up to a set point. My tranny temp sensor is right on the pressure line coming out of the transmission and displays on a Cybedyne gauge on top the dash so I would know what's happening.

For what it's worth, I sometimes use a 4-stack of DP-DT inline interlocked push button switches, mounted in a box on the console, wired to set and shift gears on demand. This is good for dyno days, and just maybe for stalling up in 2nd gear and dropping down to first at the launch. That may require more coordination than I have, but worth trying since the shifts are immediate with the manual PB switches. This might be really effective with my built Altima 4AT w/4.5 final drive gears and locked diffy. Hmmmm....

Your posts are always interesting. :eek:

EDIT: This kind of DPDT PB switch bank, interlocked so only the pushed one is active.

http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWPushB-2.html

Thanks.

Yeah, when the ATF gets hotter, it gets thinner and makes it easier for the torque converter to slip (or flash), resulting in a higher stall. If you want to reduce the stall, you can run thicker fluid. A lot of racers use thicker hydraulic fluid to reduce stall because of running a converter that is set too loose for their power band. But for me, I don't have a lot of low end torque like the V8 racers. The more power you make down low, the higher your converter will stall. Stall is also effected by your gearing and weight of vehicle. The longer your gears and heavier your car, the higher stall you'll see.

I may experiment with a thinner racing fluid one day if I ever need to squeeze out another 100-200rpm of stall. But Andre from Edge can build me a new stator and thinks he can get another 100-200rpm of stall without tapping into efficiency (losing top end HP). So I'll hold off on changing the ATF right now.

And yeah, I've seen your bank switches. Pretty cool. I don't think I need that myself since the Suprastick controls the upshift and downshift with a momentary on switch (12v signal). But that is only in manual mode, which provides pretty instant shifts just like if I rigged up what you're referring to. But I need the Suprastick to automatically shift for me so I can hit my shift points precisely.

I have two shift maps with the Suprastick. One of them holds 2nd gear while I stall it up. When I launch, I flip to the other map which gives me my automatic shifts starting in 1st gear. But there is a delay when I switch shift maps.

And manually shifting down the 1/4 mile is possible, but VERY hard to hit the shift points perfectly. A missed shift point by 200rpm will result in a 1/4 mile ET that is 2 tenths or more slower, which is huge. So it's hard to run consistent passes while manually shifting.

And if I ever need paddle shifters to make manually shifting easier, I may just get some cheap Push-To-Talk (PTT) Aviation switches, which have velcro that can wrap around the steering wheel.

But right now, I'm not sure if this 2nd gear stall up thing is just a phase or something I will use in the future. I am still testing. If I'm able to flash above 4100-4400rpm right off idle, then I won't need to stall it up in 2nd gear or try to install a trans brake or anything. So far, my best 60 foots have come from launching off idle. The slicks hook a lot more consistently this way. By stalling it up, it breaks the slicks loose easier and gives me worse and inconsistent 60s. But if I can get them to hook on a day when the track is prepped well and hooking, I know I can see some 1.6s 60s by stalling it up. So I'm not ready to give up.

And my other idea would be to swap in some smaller brakes to get them to clear 13" wheels and run the 24.5x9x13 MT slicks! Much more sidewall wrinkle instead of trying to get a 15" slick to hook. :D I think the S14 240sx guys like to use the stock Maxima brakes as an upgrade. Maybe I can downgrade to the 240sx brakes just as easily!

Aaron92SE 03-26-2014 09:46 AM

If you aren't already following NWP on Facebook or Instagram, here are some posts you probably missed.

https://www.facebook.com/NWPEngineering
@nwp_engineering on Instagram - http://instagram.com/nwp_engineering

Went to the track this past weekend to do some more testing. Here's a cool pic:

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...t-Mar-2014.jpg

On my last pass, I felt the car pull hard left when I shut it down after the traps. Nothing appeared to be broken at first glance. So I just loaded it right on the trailer.

I rigged up some string and found the front left tire was noticeably toed out!

http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...-Alignment.jpg

Yesterday, I went in for a computer alignment and confirmed that my string method was spot on. I got the toe back to where it should be, but I have not figured out how it moved. This week, I plan to closely inspect the inner tie rods to make sure they aren't coming unscrewed. That shouldn't be too hard since I just have to remove the PS rack boot.

grey99max 03-27-2014 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8933035)
Thanks.

Yeah, when the ATF gets hotter, it gets thinner and makes it easier for the torque converter to slip (or flash), resulting in a higher stall. If you want to reduce the stall, you can run thicker fluid. A lot of racers use thicker hydraulic fluid to reduce stall because of running a converter that is set too loose for their power band. But for me, I don't have a lot of low end torque like the V8 racers. The more power you make down low, the higher your converter will stall. Stall is also effected by your gearing and weight of vehicle. The longer your gears and heavier your car, the higher stall you'll see.

I may experiment with a thinner racing fluid one day if I ever need to squeeze out another 100-200rpm of stall. But Andre from Edge can build me a new stator and thinks he can get another 100-200rpm of stall without tapping into efficiency (losing top end HP). So I'll hold off on changing the ATF right now.

And yeah, I've seen your bank switches. Pretty cool. I don't think I need that myself since the Suprastick controls the upshift and downshift with a momentary on switch (12v signal). But that is only in manual mode, which provides pretty instant shifts just like if I rigged up what you're referring to. But I need the Suprastick to automatically shift for me so I can hit my shift points precisely.

I have two shift maps with the Suprastick. One of them holds 2nd gear while I stall it up. When I launch, I flip to the other map which gives me my automatic shifts starting in 1st gear. But there is a delay when I switch shift maps.

And manually shifting down the 1/4 mile is possible, but VERY hard to hit the shift points perfectly. A missed shift point by 200rpm will result in a 1/4 mile ET that is 2 tenths or more slower, which is huge. So it's hard to run consistent passes while manually shifting.

And if I ever need paddle shifters to make manually shifting easier, I may just get some cheap Push-To-Talk (PTT) Aviation switches, which have velcro that can wrap around the steering wheel.

But right now, I'm not sure if this 2nd gear stall up thing is just a phase or something I will use in the future. I am still testing. If I'm able to flash above 4100-4400rpm right off idle, then I won't need to stall it up in 2nd gear or try to install a trans brake or anything. So far, my best 60 foots have come from launching off idle. The slicks hook a lot more consistently this way. By stalling it up, it breaks the slicks loose easier and gives me worse and inconsistent 60s. But if I can get them to hook on a day when the track is prepped well and hooking, I know I can see some 1.6s 60s by stalling it up. So I'm not ready to give up.

And my other idea would be to swap in some smaller brakes to get them to clear 13" wheels and run the 24.5x9x13 MT slicks! Much more sidewall wrinkle instead of trying to get a 15" slick to hook. :D I think the S14 240sx guys like to use the stock Maxima brakes as an upgrade. Maybe I can downgrade to the 240sx brakes just as easily!

I liked the 4-pushbutton stack enough that I built an electronic version (Shift_Fast_3) that uses a MSD RPM switch to signal the advance to the next gear. Shifting is immediate. The idea of stalling up to my limit (3K) in second gear is interesting, but I can't hold the car in first gear when using a lot of throttle right now, so some testing would be required. That's why I installed the 10.5x50x15 M/T ET Street radials on the front - to keep from busting loose too early - but my best launch technique for my full-sized/weight car is to stall up, let off and go 1/2 throttle just before the green light and quickly roll into the NX Max3 controller 75-shot while going WOT. After first gear, it goes into the second NX Max4 progressive controller and manages the six direct-port jets for whatever I programmed in. I was using a 150-shot combination of jets but found I had to wait until over 4K RPM before spraying or I got massive flow reversion and backfires - pretty exciting right there. Way too much tirespin for highway testing starting in 2nd gear, so I was working on launches with the E85, and pretty happy with what I came up with.

Lots more to figure out, though.

grey99max 03-27-2014 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8933048)
If you aren't already following NWP on Facebook or Instagram, here are some posts you probably missed.

https://www.facebook.com/NWPEngineering
@nwp_engineering on Instagram - http://instagram.com/nwp_engineering

Went to the track this past weekend to do some more testing. Here's a cool pic:

On my last pass, I felt the car pull hard left when I shut it down after the traps. Nothing appeared to be broken at first glance. So I just loaded it right on the trailer.

I rigged up some string and found the front left tire was noticeably toed out!


Yesterday, I went in for a computer alignment and confirmed that my string method was spot on. I got the toe back to where it should be, but I have not figured out how it moved. This week, I plan to closely inspect the inner tie rods to make sure they aren't coming unscrewed. That shouldn't be too hard since I just have to remove the PS rack boot.

I had some similar problems with the huge DRs I'm using, and when I finished the locked-diffy in the Altima 4AT, steering became hazardous to my health, so I got all the front suspension bushings replaced with solid bushings, so I can at least steer the car again. I really gotta point the car in the direction I want it to go before I smack the throttle. Reminds me of my old '63 Econoline van w/rear-mounted Boss 302 that had a locked 4:56 Chevy third member. Line up the truck, straighten the front wheels, dump the clutch and wait until the front tires got back on the ground, then steer. Good ol' days.

ABIGBRAIN 03-28-2014 12:19 AM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8933035)
1.The longer your gears and heavier your car, the higher stall you'll see.

2. I have two shift maps with the Suprastick. One of them holds 2nd gear while I stall it up. When I launch, I flip to the other map which gives me my automatic shifts starting in 1st gear. But there is a delay when I switch shift maps.
And manually shifting down the 1/4 mile is possible, but VERY hard to hit the shift points perfectly. A missed shift point by 200rpm will result in a 1/4 mile ET that is 2 tenths or more slower, which is huge. So it's hard to run consistent passes while manually shifting.

3. But right now, I'm not sure if this 2nd gear stall up thing is just a phase or something I will use in the future. I am still testing. If I'm able to flash above 4100-4400rpm right off idle, then I won't need to stall it up in 2nd gear. So far, my best 60 foots have come from launching off idle. The slicks hook a lot more consistently this way. By stalling it up, it breaks the slicks loose easier and gives me worse and inconsistent 60s. But if I can get them to hook on a day when the track is prepped well and hooking, I know I can see some 1.6s 60s by stalling it up. So I'm not ready to give up.

4. And my other idea would be to swap in some smaller brakes to get them to clear 13" wheels and run the 24.5x9x13 MT slicks! Much more sidewall wrinkle instead of trying to get a 15" slick to hook. :D I think the S14 240sx guys like to use the stock Maxima brakes as an upgrade. Maybe I can downgrade to the 240sx brakes just as easily!

In my 30 years of drag racing experience I will offer to you MY suggestions on how you can simplify your setup AND knock at least .15 off of your E.T. ( given your runs in similar weather conditions)

1. You can fake the gearing to put more stall by going to BIGGER/WIDER tires (24.5X8x15's or better yet 26x10x15's)

2. Lose the 2nd gear launch idea!! Half a second in 2nd gear on launch is 1/2 a second of a run pulling less G forces going down track than you need. If you were on the verge of running too fast for an index class... that is one way to address it. Let the original SUPRASTICK map do it's intended job.

3. It is a phase.... Stalling up the tranny is the way to go. It takes time for the motor to go from idle to full stall (not to mention you have less power at idle) See #1 and #4 on how to hold that power!!

4. Yes... you do need more sidewall, but NOT at the expense of going to a smaller rim. More sidewall will "cushion" the initial tire shock on launch and aid in avoiding the loss of traction. But again, a 26x10x15 will still give you that 5 1/2 inches of sidewall as opposed to the 3 1/2 inches you have now.


Q. Why a larger tire?
A. More rollout from the staging beam. Think of it as an extra inch or two of a head-start before clearing the staging beam and starting the E.T. clock.

Here is what I am talking about knocking off .15 from your E.T.

1968 Chevelle...
22" front tire: (60') 1.65 .... (1/4 E.T.) 11.31
26" front tire: (60') 1.59 .... (1/4 E.T.) 11.14
29" front tire: (60') 1.54 .... (1/4 E.T.) 10.99

All things being equal... only the tire size changed. All runs were on the same day within an hours time. This car is DEADLY consistent!! BTW, the 22"s are used for PRO TREE events, the 26"s were my father's size for .510-.530 reaction times, and the 29's are mine for .510-.530 reaction times. ( I would red light with the 26's)

krazy6 03-28-2014 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8933035)
And my other idea would be to swap in some smaller brakes to get them to clear 13" wheels and run the 24.5x9x13 MT slicks! Much more sidewall wrinkle instead of trying to get a 15" slick to hook. :D I think the S14 240sx guys like to use the stock Maxima brakes as an upgrade. Maybe I can downgrade to the 240sx brakes just as easily!

This sounds awesome! I would kill to be able to fit that wheel/tire combo on my car. I could launch the car much harder. I hope you can make that work on your car, it should definitely make a nice difference.


Originally Posted by grey99max (Post 8933652)
Reminds me of my old '63 Econoline van w/rear-mounted Boss 302 that had a locked 4:56 Chevy third member. Line up the truck, straighten the front wheels, dump the clutch and wait until the front tires got back on the ground, then steer. Good ol' days.

That sounds like a lot of fun! Wish I could have went for a ride!

Aaron92SE 03-30-2014 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by grey99max (Post 8933652)
I had some similar problems with the huge DRs I'm using, and when I finished the locked-diffy in the Altima 4AT, steering became hazardous to my health, so I got all the front suspension bushings replaced with solid bushings, so I can at least steer the car again. I really gotta point the car in the direction I want it to go before I smack the throttle. Reminds me of my old '63 Econoline van w/rear-mounted Boss 302 that had a locked 4:56 Chevy third member. Line up the truck, straighten the front wheels, dump the clutch and wait until the front tires got back on the ground, then steer. Good ol' days.

Yeah, I do the same thing. As I'm rolling up to stage, I will wiggle the steering wheel a tiny bit left and right, then almost let go of the steering wheel and roll straight forward to make sure the front slicks aren't twisted and they are perfectly straight.

After a very thorough inspection and testing these past couple of days, I have come to the conclusion that my alignment didn't move. But somehow, with all the adjustments we were making on the alignment rack to get the camber dialed in while mimicing a launch, we somehow overlooked the toe being out. I can't think of anything else. This time, I have better documentation on the exact adjustments that were made and before and after settings. So if it moves even the tiniest bit, I will be able to tell pretty easily.

And the only reason why it pulled hard left is because I'm pretty sure I got out of the groove after the traps on that one run and the front slick just followed a rut in the track surface. And I was running a lower pressure that day than I normally run.


Originally Posted by ABIGBRAIN (Post 8933911)
In my 30 years of drag racing experience I will offer to you MY suggestions on how you can simplify your setup AND knock at least .15 off of your E.T. ( given your runs in similar weather conditions)

1. You can fake the gearing to put more stall by going to BIGGER/WIDER tires (24.5X8x15's or better yet 26x10x15's)

2. Lose the 2nd gear launch idea!! Half a second in 2nd gear on launch is 1/2 a second of a run pulling less G forces going down track than you need. If you were on the verge of running too fast for an index class... that is one way to address it. Let the original SUPRASTICK map do it's intended job.

3. It is a phase.... Stalling up the tranny is the way to go. It takes time for the motor to go from idle to full stall (not to mention you have less power at idle) See #1 and #4 on how to hold that power!!

4. Yes... you do need more sidewall, but NOT at the expense of going to a smaller rim. More sidewall will "cushion" the initial tire shock on launch and aid in avoiding the loss of traction. But again, a 26x10x15 will still give you that 5 1/2 inches of sidewall as opposed to the 3 1/2 inches you have now.


Q. Why a larger tire?
A. More rollout from the staging beam. Think of it as an extra inch or two of a head-start before clearing the staging beam and starting the E.T. clock.

Here is what I am talking about knocking off .15 from your E.T.

1968 Chevelle...
22" front tire: (60') 1.65 .... (1/4 E.T.) 11.31
26" front tire: (60') 1.59 .... (1/4 E.T.) 11.14
29" front tire: (60') 1.54 .... (1/4 E.T.) 10.99

All things being equal... only the tire size changed. All runs were on the same day within an hours time. This car is DEADLY consistent!! BTW, the 22"s are used for PRO TREE events, the 26"s were my father's size for .510-.530 reaction times, and the 29's are mine for .510-.530 reaction times. ( I would red light with the 26's)

Thanks. The biggest reason why I haven't started running bigger slicks up until now is because I get my best ETs and 60 foots with a smaller slick. The 20" OD MT slick is the best slick I've tested to date for my particular setup. I make peak power between 6-7K rpm. So the closer I stay in that part of the power band, the better my times. The 22" slicks that I'm running now have me revving around 6300rpm through the traps, which is too low. The 20" slicks were much better as long as they are able to hook since they are at 6900rpm. But, it's too bad that MT doesn't make a 20" slick anymore.

Plus, with this new torque converter I'm testing only has 17 passes on it right now. It's the first time a converter like this has ever been made for a Nissan that I know of. We are still in the prototype phase. We have at least one more tweak to do to the converter until it's where I want it. So I will be sending it back in within the next week or so.

Once I am able to launch above 4100rpm, then I will finally be able to achieve the 60 foots I am searching for in my FWD Maxima, which are 1.6s all motor.

Also, the biggest tire I can run in my class is a 25" slick. So the 24.5x9x13 slick will give me the best traction possible. Better than a 24.5" slick with a 15" wheel. And I have only had 3 TnT track days with this converter on a track that was not prepped or had other slick cars running. I'm sure the 22" MT slicks I am running now are capable of hooking up during a regular race. I'm not done testing with them since the converter project isn't done.

And yes, a bigger diameter slick will raise the stall some and will improve my 60 foot due to the higher HP at that higher stall, but it will also reduce my trap speed because I won't be making peak power through the traps. I feel the 24.5" slick will be the best of both worlds once I am done building the converter we need. More consistant traction on poor track days, higher stall due to longer gearing, better 60 foots, but lower trap speed since I will be riding out 3rd gear through the traps at only 5700rpm, which is below peak HP.

And it doesn't take a half second to downshift to 1st gear on the launch if I manually shift, which is instant. This is just something I am experimenting with that I thought I would share with the world. The only reason I'm trying it is because I can not stall up the converter in 1st gear above 4100rpm. It overpowers my brakes. I don't have a transbrake. With my footbrake, launching it off idle shocks the converter the most and I see the highest stall possible. I am able to see a 3900-4000rpm stall by flashing it off idle. If I stall it up in 1st gear, I can get it as high as 3400 before it over powers the brakes and it shocks the slicks too much and causes them to break loose everytime, then bogs because I'm below 4100rpm, then takes off. The cleanest and best 60 foots so far with the converter I have now come from a launch right off idle. It flashes at 3900-4000 and doesn't bog nearly as bad as if I try to stall it up in 1st gear. But all this will change considerably after I am finally able to build a converter that can flash higher than 4100rpm and launch at peak torque.


Originally Posted by krazy6 (Post 8934243)
This sounds awesome! I would kill to be able to fit that wheel/tire combo on my car. I could launch the car much harder. I hope you can make that work on your car, it should definitely make a nice difference.

Thanks! Since my car only weighs 2450lbs, the 240sx brakes will still stop this Maxima pretty quick. I will probably messed around with this project once the torque converter project comes to an end within the next month or so. I believe everything is a direct bolt on from the S14!

wolfpack_5150 07-27-2014 09:57 PM

checking in on the beast

95maxrider 03-11-2015 11:20 AM

What's in store for 2015 Aaron?

Aaron92SE 03-24-2015 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by 95maxrider (Post 9029726)
What's in store for 2015 Aaron?

I haven't cranked up the 92 Maxima in a while now. I don't have anything planned right now for 2015 just yet.

95maxrider 03-24-2015 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 9033315)
I haven't cranked up the 92 Maxima in a while now. I don't have anything planned right now for 2015 just yet.

:( :confused:

yovenim 04-17-2024 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by Aaron92SE (Post 8813201)
Thank you! I'm sorry that I don't have any updates right now. The car is just sitting in the shop. I crank it up every now and then to make sure the engine stays healthy. The GTR injectors needs to be installed and UTEC retuned before I hit the track again to get some base numbers since it's been so long since I ran the 1/4 mile in this car 128 code. Then, I'll have some good times to compare to when I install the 4K+ stall Edge Racing Torque Converter prototype that's sitting on the shelf!

I really want to get this car back out on the track. But I've spent every waking moment trying to get this new NWP product released for the VQ35DE engine. Testing is complete and the HP gains are impressive! The product will fit on the following vehicles:

03-06 350z
03-07 G35 Coupe
03-06 G35 Sedan
02-08 Maxima
02-06 Altima 3.5L
02-04 I35
03-07 Murano
04-09 Quest

We hope to have the product released within the next couple weeks!

anyone know what this code is.........

Engine Fuel Temp
Short HI 128 174 03

i actually got this reading from the diagnostics on my dash....but it only pops up if my chk engine light comes on........

im thinking fuel temp sensor??? which if im not mistaken i replaced it a few years back(did it myself)
\
or maybe someone can tell me a site here on the web where i can look up info like this?


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