grey99max

iTrader: (12)

That's some beautiful weather there - great day for a trip to a track. I noticed that those two runs ended with you still in third gear at the traps. I wonder how you would do with a 2005-2006 Altima transmission with the lower final drive installed - you would be well into 4th gear, depending what RPMs you shift at. Of course it's not a VLSD...

Your car is running well, with those ETs and trap speeds. How much did your car weigh on that day?? Spanking street Mustangs is always fun, isn't it? Keep up the good work, and hope that Edge gives you that higher stall speed. I could use one of those 4K stall converters.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I don't want to race in an overdriven gear. I want to top out 3rd gear no matter how fast I'm going. The 20" MT slicks on a 14" wheel allows me to almost top out 3rd gear through the traps, which is perfect! But those 20" slicks are now worn out and I'm using my 22" MT slicks now and those have me revving around 6700rpm through the traps in 3rd. If I ever spray nitrous to run 10s, I'll probably need to buy some 24.5" slicks.

But for my next possible build (B13 with 09VQ making 360+whp NA), I will probably be using some MT 24.5" slicks on a 13" wheel. And I may need to use the Altima FD to have me in the top of 3rd gear through the traps even with an 8K rev limit. But the stock gearing may be perfect with the 125-130mph trap speed I'll probably have. I haven't crunched the numbers too much on that build. And that car will probably have a custom made drag spool depending on the rules of the classes I will be competing in.

My car weighs 2600 lbs with driver. And with this Edge prototype, we may be done testing on this very next unit that gets shipped out! I hope so! The hard part is now done (getting this crazy prototype to stall at 3500 rpm NA without hurting trap speed at all). If you do that to the stock Nissan converter, you will hurt top end HP and kill your trap speed.

But if I were you and sprayed a 50-75 shot on the launch, the 3K Edge TC will probably be the best option. The 3K Edge unit stalls at 3000rpm naturally aspirated and is incredibly efficient. And with a 50+ shot of nitrous, it should stall at around 3400-3600rpm on the launch and give you those 1.6 60 foots if you're able to hook up.

So I don't see a reason to install this new 4K+ prototype we're working on unless you're all motor or need to build boost on the line. In fact, this new prototype is so awesome, there will be a ton of different stall options without hurting your trap speed between 2500-5500 stall! This is the first converter of its kind anywhere in the Nissan world that I know of!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Last night, I dropped the transmission again to send back this Edge prototype converter for a final tweaking hopefully. Hoping for a 4100+ rpm stall when it comes back around the 2nd week of Jan.

I can now have the axles out and torque converter removed in less than 2 hours and I am very slow and meticulous mechanic.

ABIGBRAIN

iTrader: (1)

I crunched a few numbers for you Aaron,
Altima 4.425 FD tranny, 4100 stall, 23 inch slicks, and race weight of 2600 lbs. 7500 RPM shifts

You can stay in 3rd gear through the traps and drive it on the highway!! LOL

Acceleration Simulator Results
1992 Maxima SE W/VQ35

ZT ET MPHFeet RPMGearGRear%MFNote(s)
0.24 0.01 5.70 1.0 4100 1 1.083 54.9 1.000 *rollout* *Flash TC*
0.34 0.10 7.96 2.0 4100 1 1.083 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.44 0.20 10.34 3.3 4100 1 1.083 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.54 0.30 12.71 5.0 4100 1 1.082 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.64 0.40 15.08 7.1 4100 1 1.082 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.74 0.50 17.46 9.5 4100 1 1.081 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.84 0.60 19.83 12.2 4100 1 1.081 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.94 0.70 22.20 15.3 4100 1 1.080 54.9 1.000 *Flash TC*
0.97 0.73 22.91 16.3 4111 1 1.080 54.9 1.000 *TC Flash end*
1.03 0.80 24.49 18.7 4395 1 1.034 54.2 1.000
1.14 0.90 26.77 22.5 4803 1 1.043 54.4 1.000
1.24 1.00 29.08 26.6 5218 1 1.059 54.6 1.000
1.34 1.10 31.39 31.1 5633 1 1.042 54.3 1.000
1.44 1.20 33.64 35.8 6037 1 1.016 54.0 1.000
1.54 1.30 35.84 40.9 6430 1 0.978 53.5 1.000
1.64 1.40 37.94 46.4 6807 1 0.942 53.0 1.000
1.74 1.50 39.96 52.1 7170 1 0.898 52.4 1.000
1.84 1.60 41.86 58.1 7512 1 0.840 51.6 1.000 *redline*
1.84 1.61 41.86 58.4 7512 shift -0.030 39.6 1.000 *redline* *shift point*
1.87 1.64 41.84 60.2 7512 shift -0.030 39.6 1.000 *60 ft*
1.94 1.70 41.79 64.2 7512 shift -0.030 39.6 1.000
2.04 1.80 41.73 70.3 7512 shift -0.030 39.6 1.000
2.05 1.81 41.78 71.0 4166 2 0.554 47.6 1.000
2.14 1.90 42.88 76.6 4275 2 0.555 47.6 1.000
2.24 2.00 44.10 82.9 4396 2 0.555 47.6 1.000
2.34 2.10 45.31 89.5 4517 2 0.554 47.6 1.000
2.44 2.20 46.53 96.2 4639 2 0.555 47.6 1.000
2.54 2.30 47.75 103.2 4760 2 0.557 47.7 1.000
2.64 2.40 48.97 110.3 4882 2 0.559 47.7 1.000
2.74 2.50 50.20 117.5 5005 2 0.562 47.7 1.000
2.84 2.60 51.44 125.0 5128 2 0.563 47.7 1.000
2.94 2.70 52.67 132.6 5251 2 0.564 47.8 1.000
3.04 2.80 53.91 140.4 5374 2 0.561 47.7 1.000
3.14 2.90 55.13 148.4 5496 2 0.558 47.7 1.000
3.24 3.00 56.35 156.6 5618 2 0.552 47.6 1.000
3.34 3.10 57.55 165.0 5738 2 0.545 47.5 1.000
3.44 3.20 58.74 173.5 5856 2 0.540 47.4 1.000
3.54 3.30 59.92 182.2 5974 2 0.536 47.4 1.000
3.55 3.31 60.04 183.1 5986 2 0.536 47.4 1.000 *60 MPH*
3.64 3.40 61.09 191.1 6091 2 0.531 47.3 1.000
3.74 3.50 62.25 200.2 6206 2 0.526 47.2 1.000
3.84 3.60 63.40 209.4 6320 2 0.518 47.1 1.000
3.94 3.70 64.52 218.8 6432 2 0.509 47.0 1.000
4.04 3.80 65.63 228.3 6543 2 0.500 46.9 1.000
4.14 3.90 66.72 238.0 6651 2 0.494 46.8 1.000
4.24 4.00 67.80 247.9 6759 2 0.488 46.7 1.000
4.34 4.10 68.86 257.9 6865 2 0.482 46.6 1.000
4.44 4.20 69.91 268.1 6970 2 0.476 46.6 1.000
4.54 4.30 70.95 278.4 7073 2 0.467 46.4 1.000
4.64 4.40 71.96 288.9 7174 2 0.457 46.3 1.000
4.74 4.50 72.95 299.5 7273 2 0.447 46.1 1.000
4.84 4.60 73.92 310.3 7369 2 0.437 46.0 1.000
4.94 4.70 74.87 321.2 7463 2 0.427 45.9 1.000
4.98 4.74 75.24 325.6 7501 2 0.423 45.8 1.000 *redline*
4.98 4.75 75.23 326.2 7501 shift -0.060 39.2 1.000 *redline* *shift point*
5.01 4.78 75.19 330.0 7501 shift -0.060 39.2 1.000 *330 ft*
5.04 4.80 75.16 332.2 7501 shift -0.060 39.2 1.000
5.14 4.90 75.03 343.3 7501 shift -0.060 39.2 1.000
5.19 4.95 75.00 348.8 4824 3 0.323 44.4 1.000
5.24 5.00 75.36 354.3 4847 3 0.323 44.4 1.000
5.34 5.10 76.06 365.4 4892 3 0.323 44.4 1.000
5.44 5.20 76.77 376.6 4938 3 0.323 44.4 1.000
5.54 5.30 77.48 387.9 4983 3 0.323 44.4 1.000
5.64 5.40 78.19 399.3 5029 3 0.322 44.4 1.000
5.74 5.50 78.89 410.8 5074 3 0.322 44.4 1.000
5.84 5.60 79.60 422.5 5120 3 0.322 44.4 1.000
5.94 5.70 80.31 434.2 5165 3 0.321 44.4 1.000
6.04 5.80 81.01 446.0 5210 3 0.321 44.4 1.000
6.14 5.90 81.71 458.0 5256 3 0.321 44.4 1.000
6.24 6.00 82.42 470.0 5301 3 0.319 44.4 1.000
6.34 6.10 83.12 482.2 5346 3 0.318 44.4 1.000
6.44 6.20 83.81 494.4 5390 3 0.316 44.4 1.000
6.54 6.30 84.50 506.7 5435 3 0.315 44.3 1.000
6.64 6.40 85.19 519.2 5479 3 0.314 44.3 1.000
6.74 6.50 85.88 531.7 5523 3 0.312 44.3 1.000
6.84 6.60 86.56 544.4 5567 3 0.310 44.3 1.000
6.94 6.70 87.24 557.1 5611 3 0.307 44.2 1.000
7.04 6.80 87.91 570.0 5654 3 0.305 44.2 1.000
7.14 6.90 88.58 582.9 5697 3 0.303 44.2 1.000
7.22 6.99 89.14 594.0 5733 3 0.301 44.1 1.000 *1/8 mi (1)*
7.24 7.00 89.24 596.0 5740 3 0.301 44.1 1.000
7.34 7.10 89.90 609.1 5782 3 0.299 44.1 1.000
7.44 7.20 90.55 622.3 5824 3 0.297 44.1 1.000
7.54 7.30 91.20 635.7 5866 3 0.296 44.1 1.000
7.64 7.40 91.85 649.1 5907 3 0.294 44.0 1.000
7.72 7.49 92.40 660.6 5943 3 0.293 44.0 1.000 *1/8 mi (2)*
7.74 7.50 92.49 662.6 5949 3 0.292 44.0 1.000
7.84 7.60 93.13 676.2 5990 3 0.291 44.0 1.000
7.94 7.70 93.77 689.9 6031 3 0.289 44.0 1.000
8.04 7.80 94.40 703.7 6071 3 0.287 44.0 1.000
8.14 7.90 95.03 717.6 6112 3 0.285 43.9 1.000
8.24 8.00 95.65 731.6 6152 3 0.283 43.9 1.000
8.34 8.10 96.27 745.7 6192 3 0.282 43.9 1.000
8.44 8.20 96.89 759.9 6231 3 0.280 43.8 1.000
8.54 8.30 97.50 774.1 6271 3 0.277 43.8 1.000
8.64 8.40 98.10 788.5 6310 3 0.275 43.8 1.000
8.74 8.50 98.70 802.9 6348 3 0.272 43.7 1.000
8.84 8.60 99.30 817.4 6386 3 0.269 43.7 1.000
8.94 8.70 99.88 832.0 6424 3 0.267 43.7 1.000
8.96 8.73 100.03 835.7 6434 3 0.266 43.7 1.000 *100 MPH*
9.04 8.80 100.46 846.7 6462 3 0.264 43.6 1.000
9.14 8.90 101.04 861.5 6499 3 0.261 43.6 1.000
9.24 9.00 101.61 876.4 6535 3 0.259 43.6 1.000
9.34 9.10 102.18 891.3 6572 3 0.257 43.5 1.000
9.44 9.20 102.74 906.3 6608 3 0.255 43.5 1.000
9.54 9.30 103.30 921.5 6644 3 0.253 43.5 1.000
9.64 9.40 103.85 936.7 6679 3 0.251 43.5 1.000
9.74 9.50 104.40 951.9 6715 3 0.249 43.4 1.000
9.84 9.60 104.95 967.3 6750 3 0.248 43.4 1.000
9.94 9.70 105.49 982.7 6785 3 0.246 43.4 1.000
10.04 9.80 106.02 998.2 6819 3 0.244 43.4 1.000
10.05 9.82 106.10 1000.6 6824 3 0.243 43.4 1.000 *1000 ft*
10.14 9.90 106.56 1013.8 6853 3 0.242 43.3 1.000
10.24 10.00 107.08 1029.5 6887 3 0.240 43.3 1.000
10.34 10.10 107.61 1045.2 6921 3 0.238 43.3 1.000
10.44 10.20 108.13 1061.1 6955 3 0.236 43.3 1.000
10.54 10.30 108.65 1077.0 6988 3 0.234 43.2 1.000
10.64 10.40 109.16 1092.9 7021 3 0.232 43.2 1.000
10.74 10.50 109.66 1109.0 7053 3 0.229 43.2 1.000
10.84 10.60 110.16 1125.1 7085 3 0.227 43.1 1.000
10.94 10.70 110.66 1141.3 7117 3 0.224 43.1 1.000
11.04 10.80 111.14 1157.6 7148 3 0.221 43.0 1.000
11.14 10.90 111.63 1173.9 7179 3 0.218 43.0 1.000
11.24 11.00 112.10 1190.3 7210 3 0.216 43.0 1.000
11.34 11.10 112.57 1206.8 7240 3 0.213 42.9 1.000
11.44 11.20 113.04 1223.3 7270 3 0.211 42.9 1.000
11.54 11.30 113.50 1239.9 7300 3 0.208 42.9 1.000
11.62 11.39 113.88 1254.1 7325 3 0.206 42.8 1.000 *1/4 mi (1)*
11.64 11.40 113.95 1256.6 7329 3 0.206 42.8 1.000
11.74 11.50 114.40 1273.4 7358 3 0.203 42.8 1.000
11.84 11.60 114.84 1290.2 7386 3 0.201 42.8 1.000
11.94 11.70 115.28 1307.1 7414 3 0.198 42.7 1.000
12.02 11.78 115.63 1320.6 7437 3 0.196 42.7 1.000 *1/4 mi (2)*
ZT ET MPH Feet RPM GearGRear%MFNote(s)
Summary
0-60 mph: 3.55
0-100 mph: 8.96
60 ft: 1.64 @ 41.84
330 ft: 4.78 @ 75.19
1/8 mile: 7.49 @ 90.77(92.40 actual)
1000 ft: 9.82 @ 106.10
1/4 mile: 11.78 @ 114.75(115.63 actual)
Max Accel: 1.083 G
Air Density: 0.00230926 slug ft^3
Time Delta: 5.0 ms

ABIGBRAIN

iTrader: (1)

Your current setup:

Summary
0-60 mph: 3.86
0-100 mph: 9.43
60 ft: 1.79 @ 39.98
330 ft: 4.98 @ 73.61
1/8 mile: 7.65 @ 90.41(91.77 actual)
1000 ft: 10.02 @ 104.25
1/4 mile: 12.02 @ 112.70(113.59 actual)
Max Accel: 0.910 G
Air Density: 0.00230926 slug ft^3
Time Delta: 5.0 ms

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I was just looking at the gear spreads in the 4AT transmission, and they are actually pretty close. ABIGBRAINs charts above are pretty incredible - another good reason for using the low final drive and using the gears to your advantage! Especially with a 2600 lb car

The internal gear ratios in every RE4F04A/B/V/W transmission:
http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_..._1997-2008.htm

1st____2.785
2nd____1.545
3rd____ 1.000
4th____ .694

The changes between each gear as you shift up:

1-2____ .555 (this is the most extreme change, from 2.785 to 1.545))
2-3____ .65
3-4____ .694

This makes me feel encouraged about racing with the Altima 4AT. The only problem I still see is the ECUs cutting back on the ignition advance when making the 1-2 shift because of the extreme drop in RPMs. My 3500 lb car and 6500 RPM shifts even make new final drive better. More nitrous should straighten this out.

krazy6

iTrader: (5)

Some good info right there.

More nitrous always straightens the car out.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Thanks Abigbrain. I like to use the smallest and lightest slicks I can find as long as I am still able to hook up. And so far, the 20" MT slicks are the best I've used. I'm able to hook up and do low 1.8s in the 60. But that's with a 3-3.5K stall converter. Once I get a 4100+ stall, I expect all that to change. I may not be able to get the 20" slicks to hook up consistently anymore. But I bet the 22" slicks will still work for me.

If the transmission I am currently using ever pops, I may consider using the Altima tranny again for my 92 Maxima. I don't ever expect this car to see anything better than an 11.5 in the 1/4 mile all motor. It's possible I may spray a 75 shot to see how deep in the 10s it'll go, but I'm not sure.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Update: I am still waiting to receive the new prototype converter from Edge Racing. It should be here on Monday. I am working on some other things with the car in the meantime. But I will have the car ready to accept the new prototype TC just as soon as it comes in. And if the weather is good that following weekend, I'll be there hoping for those dang 11s! haha

Andre at Edge had to do some more custom work on it so it took a couple extra days than expected. He thinks I'll see another 600rpm of stall, hopefully more. A 600 rpm stall increase would put me right at 4100rpm, which is when my power substantially increases. Here's a dyno chart that shows what I'm talking about.



The other thing I'm working on while the transmission is out of the car is finally removing all of the ABS components! Ever since the VQ35DE swap, I lost the ABS function of only one of my front wheels due to having to use a 4th gen Maxima passenger side axle because of the axle support bracket location on the VQ block versus the VE block. So I disabled the ABS function entirely by leaving it unplugged. Without ABS, I have a useless ABS actuator and an excessive amount of brake lines clogging up my engine bay. The actuator is now out of the engine bay and it weighed in at 20lbs alone!

I just replaced all my brake lines with the ones from my 92 Maxima non-ABS parts car. I got a new master cylinder from the parts store since the one in the parts car was in pretty nasty shape being exposed to the elements all these years.

And for testing purposes, to make sure I am comparing apples to apples with my latest Edge Racing prototype TC, I will bolt in the exact weight I removed by converting over to non-ABS. Then once I have a few consistent 1/4 mile test passes, I'll remove that 25lbs or so and shave a few hundredths.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

Damn I'd luv to delete my abs, maybe one day when I get bored

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Yeah, I can't believe it's taken me this long. The way I did it isn't all that easy. It's tough getting all the lines out. I basically cut the old lines out. But I had to get the lines out of the parts car without cutting them. I wanted to NOT deal with cutting and flaring these lines.

And my 92 Maxima SE has those load leveling sensors in the rear. So I removed those heavy things and bent the lines carefully to installed an OEM coupler I got from the parts car. This evening, I will add fluid and bleed the lines and check for leaks.

SpeedCrazie

iTrader: (81)

With that dyno what did you use to tune??

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

utec

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Quick Update: I just weighed all of the ABS components and they came in at 29lbs! That includes the actuator, lines, bolts, 4 ABS sensors, and two load level sensors in the rear.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

The first All Motor Maxima in the 11s!! New world record!



I went to the track today with the latest Edge Racing torque converter prototype installed. The torque converter only stalled at about 3800 rpm today. But more testing is needed before we revisit the drawing board for a converter change. So that is why we didn't see a low 1.7 or high 1.6 60 foot as expected.

Also, for some reason, I lost the speed signal going to my SSv4 standalone transmission computer. So I lost the ability to automatically shift. So I had to manually shift all day with one hand on the steering wheel. Fortunately, the car tracked straight on the launch, so it wasn't a problem.

Also, the 22" MT slicks are now showing cords. So I was only able to safely get 3 passes in before we decided to officially retire these slicks.

With another track visit and these issues fixed and a higher transmission temp, we're hoping to see a 3900-4000 stall out of the converter. I also will experiment with different types of launches such as launching off idle versus stalling it up.

Thanks for your support. We hope to release an official video within the next couple days!

krazy6

iTrader: (5)

Sweet! Way to go! It's been a long time coming!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Here's the full slip:

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

Dzaccord

iTrader: (2)

WOW!! Those are AWESOME numbers! We knew you'd do it and we're looking forward to the future runs as well. That's a great accomplishment!

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Wow this is what you miss when you have been gone forever.

Great accomplishment Aaron, congrats!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Thanks guys!

I am still striving for those 1.6 60 foots that I know are possible with an All Motor automatic! I only need the right torque converter configuration! We'll figure it out.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

congraz

Nismo87SE

Congrats on reaching your goal!! I know it's been a long time coming

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

World's Fastest All Motor Maxima runs 11s! NEW VIDEO!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Since my last update, I fixed the issues I was having at the track when I ran 11.97. I lost my speed signal going to my SupraStick TCM that day, so I had to manually shift on all 3 of my passes as you may have noticed from my latest video above. Well, that turned out to be an easy one to fix. When I was removing my ABS components and converting over to manual brakes, I got a little too happy with the weight reduction and I removed the ABS sensors on both of my front wheels. Well, I forgot that the speed signal for the Suprastick is coming from the front left ABS sensor. Once I plugged that back in, the car shifts perfectly once again.

Also, at the track, I was having a small ATF leak and I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. It was so small that it didn't leak a drop on the track, but it was a fine mist of ATF spraying around my engine bay while I raced. So I decided to put the car on the trailer. Fluid on the track is never OK! When I got the car back in the shop, I inspected everything and it turned out to be spraying out of the vent breather tube. I'm not sure why since the fluid level was dead on! I checked the level several times in the pits before every single pass. So, a couple days ago, I rigged up a small catch can until I can figure it out.

And I got new 22" MT slicks installed on the Rota Slipstream wheels along with NHRA approved metal valve stems now that I am running 11.99 or faster. I measured the circumference of both slicks after mounting them on the wheels. According to MT, they need to be within 3/4" of each other. And one slick was just under 3/4" than the other slick. So I was able to stretch that slick by putting 35psi in it for about 5 minutes. Then let out all the air and pump back up to 20psi and measure again. I did this only twice before I was able to get both slicks to match perfectly!

And these new slicks are SOFT! Much softer than my old worn out slicks that I retired.



I hope to hit the track this weekend again to further test out this latest prototype torque converter. It stalled at 3800 rpm in the first 3 passes at 145 degrees ATF temp. I need to fluid to be at operating temp, which is 160-180 degrees. With the ATF being up to temp, it will be a lower viscosity, which will help increase the stall of the converter on the launch. I'm not sure how much that will help though, but I am hoping to see a noticeable increase.

I don't even have my auxiliary tranny cooler installed. I removed that years ago due to my ATF temps being too low. Well, they are still too low right now, especially in the winter. So the other day, I bypassed the stock cooler completely and just looped the line. I took the car out for a 30 minute test session and drove it a 1/2 mile and let it idle while in gear. I was able to get the temp up to 120 degrees quicker than before, I think. I will do more testing today and see if I can get it above 160 degrees. And if the tranny gets too hot while at the track, it'll be easy to connect the tranny cooler back up and go for another pass.

And since my engine wakes up at 4100rpm, the closer I stall to that rpm, the more the stall will increase solely based on the increased torque! So I am hoping that with the ATF being hotter, I will see a 100rpm increase. And with that 100rpm increase in stall, since my engine makes 10 more ft-lbs of torque, it should increase the stall even further! Hopefully, I can see a 4000+ stall this weekend. That would be nice!

If this doesn't work, I may experiment with the low viscosity Racing ATF from Redline. Maybe I will be able to squeeze out another 100-200rpm of stall with this fluid. I just don't know how my tranny will shift with this fluid. I'm not sure if it will like the lower viscosity.

But once thing is for certain, I am so close to seeing a stall at peak torque that with these minor tweaks, I could be seeing a 4200+ stall while flashing the converter off idle. And I know this converter is capable of stalling up to 4700 rpm since that is what I see when I do a stall test locked in 3rd gear at a standstill. But due to less engine load in 1st gear, I only saw a 3800 stall last time out. If I had a transbrake, I would be able to achieve this 4700 stall, but I can't find anybody that makes anything like that for a Nissan tranny.

Here is what my torque curve looks like:



See how my engine starts making peak torque at 4100rpm? If I can flash there, I will be good to go! I can smell those 1.6 60s!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Another update: I just did some more testing with the looped transmission line (bypassed cooler) and it does seem to reach a higher temp faster than before. I drove the car for about 40 minutes and it barely reached 150 degrees. After a pass or two down the track, I bet I will be able to see 160+ degrees no problem and get this converter to stall higher!

Another trick I can do, which I highly recommend nobody try, is to lock the tranny in 2nd gear and stall it up while holding the brakes. I am able to see a 4500 stall using this method and it doesn't overpower the brakes. Then, when I launch the car, I drop it down to 1st gear while I go wide open throttle and release the brakes. But this is VERY rough on the tranny and I really don't want to do this. It's just a crazy idea that should work when you have a 4700 stall converter like I have without a transbrake.

krazy6

iTrader: (5)

That's awesome! I was just actually going to suggest locking the transmission in 3rd gear and then shifting it down into 1st at the lights.

Great to see you had the same idea. I saw this with the 4L80E transmission guys as a form of building boost with turbo cars.

Car should 60 foot in the 1.6s with this mod!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

The tranny held together yesterday after 4 passes of stalling it up to 4500rpm in 2nd gear and kicking it down to 1st on the launch. Traction became an issue. So I wasn't able to hook up. With a 4500rpm launch, it's a completely different car! I was only able to run 12.2s yesterday, but I learned a lot in this TnT session!

1.6s are my goal once I get the slicks hooking. I will try to post all the details from yesterday within the next day or so when I have more time.

krazy6

iTrader: (5)

I actually don't think it would really be that hard on the transmission.

That's good news! Car is going to run some nice 11 second passes when you get it to hook!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Update: This past Sunday, I went to the drag strip again and got 6 passes in. On the first 2 passes, I launched off idle and saw 3800-3900 stall. I finally am able to get the ATF up to temp above 160 degrees. That is how I was able to see a 3900 stall, which is the highest so far to date by launching off idle. I ran a 12.27@111.95mph w/ 1.85 60 foot with the 3800 launch and a 12.24@111.39mph w/ 1.81 60 with 3900 launch.

The ATF temps were just fine all day long without running any transmission cooler at all. The highest ATF temp I saw all day was 178 degrees. But it quickly cooled down to 160 by the end of the 1/4 mile.

On the last 4 passes of the day, I was playing around with stalling it up in 2nd gear and quickly downshifting to 1st on the launch. This proved to work pretty well. In 2nd gear, I was able to stall it up to about 4500 rpm without overpowering the brakes. Then, I manually shifting down to 1st gear on the launch and the revs pretty much stayed above that through 1st gear. I think the datalog showed it launching at 4500, dropping to 4300 or so, then quickly going up from there. As long as it stays above 4100rpm (the start of my peak torque), I am happy.

On my first attempt, the car revved up so fast in 1st gear, that I got flustered and shortshifted the 1-2 shift at 6000rpm. Then I bogged in the bottom of 2nd gear due to that. I ran a 12.62 w/ a 1.93 60 foot. The slicks just spun all the way through 1st gear instead of hooking.

Then, I tried again with the same tire pressure and spun the slicks through 1st gear again and got a 12.61 w/ a 1.94 60 ft. I still short shifted at 6500rpm in the 1-2 shift. It's not easy to do all these things at once and push a button exactly at the right time for the 1-2 shift, which comes pretty quickly.

I then lowered the pressure from 22psi to 18 psi. 22psi works just fine for me if I launch off idle and the track is prepped well, which it was earlier in the day. I made another pass with a much better burnout and got a 12.51 w/ 1.87 60ft. I still spun all the way through 1st gear. And I still short shifted at 6500rpm!

After that, I only had enough time to do one more pass before the track shut down for the day. So I lowered my pressure to 16psi. My goal is to shift at 7300rpm exactly. But I still short shifted at 6900rpm and bogged a tiny bit in the bottom of 2nd gear. I ran a 12.25 w/ 1.81 60 ft. And the slicks will spun through 1st gear! My trap speeds on all 6 passes ranged from 111.32 - 111.97mph. So the engine was solid and consistent. I am just trying to get consistency from my converter, which I know I can do once I figure it out.

On the 2nd pass of the day, that 1.81 I cut was pretty much a dead hook since I launched off idle and flashed to 3900rpm. But, this is a MUCH harder launch at 4500rpm and it breaks the slicks loose a lot easier. Plus the track surface was garbage near the end of the day since the big slick cars stopped running a long time ago and the only cars that were running were street tire cars. Street tires chew up the surface instead of laying down a smooth layer of rubber.

So, the next time I hit the track, I should be able to hook up earlier in the day with the 4500rpm launch when the track surface is at it's best. I should be able to see a low 1.7 60 foot. 1.6s are my goal though.

Also, I am still getting ATF blowing out of my vent tube on my transmission after installing this new converter. The fluid level is perfectly at the full mark. But I'm not sure if a higher stall converter can somehow increase the pressure of the transmission. I am using the same exact fluid. The catch can setup I installed worked perfectly all day though.

And most importantly, I wonder if there is anyway I can get my Suprastick to start in 2nd gear and once I go over 90% throttle, it kicks down to 1st gear for the launch. Then, it proceeds to shift normally for the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. If anybody has any ideas how to do something like this with the SSv4, please post and let me know. I am able to shift to another shift map on the fly. So, maybe I can switch to another shift map just after the launch when I'm still in 1st gear. Any thoughts?

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You think so? It makes me feel like I am doing a neutral drop! But it definitely doesn't clunk when I do it. It just launches at a higher rpm in 1st gear.

I would still prefer to be able to flash from idle to 4100+. So I may try some of that low viscosity racing fluid from Redline. The lower viscosity should raise my flash stall 100-200 rpm I would guess. That would put me right at 4100rpm or so. But I don't know how my tranny will like it and how it will shift.

Launching off idle seems to get the slicks to hook perfectly every time. But it is only at 3900rpm, which is MUCH less power than at 4500rpm.

Stalling it up in 2nd gear has always been a bigger shock to the tires in the first few inches of the race causing them to break loose before the car even starts moving. If I launch off idle, the car seems to move a little first, then the converter stalls and slicks have enough time to grab. It's a smoother way to lay down the power on the launch.

krazy6

iTrader: (5)

The way I look at it, I imagine it being the same stress as a WOT downshift from 2nd to 1st. Transmissions are fine downshifting under power, they do it all the time. I could be 100% wrong though lol

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Yeah, I agree. But, I really don't like downshifting an automatic at WOT. It's one of the big "no no's" if you want to make an RE4F04 transmission hold 300-400whp. So I always try to be nice to my transmission whenever possible and only go WOT in the upshifts.

My last unit lasted 213K abusive miles! The unit that's in my car now was a freebie that was given to me and it's still holding up after 20 passes down the 1/4 mile. I have no idea how many miles are on this tranny.

And I will probably still mess around with this '2nd to 1st' type launch since I'm willing to accept whatever that ends up breaking. I really want to get the slicks to hook consistently using this method. Then if I am competing in a big heads up event and need to shave 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, I'll launch this way. But if it's a normal TnT, I feel better launching off idle and flashing the converter.

But I agree with you. It's probably a similar amount of stress if I was just cruising in 2nd gear at 4500rpm and went WOT and let the stock TCM downshift into 1st gear for me. I don't think it's nearly as harsh as a 4500 rpm neutral drop though. I was just exaggerating.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I talked to Garrett, the creator of the Suprastick. In order to create an automatic shift map to allow me to stall up in 2nd gear and kick down to 1st, I can do it a couple different ways. The way I thought of is to put 0mph in the 2>1 kickdown column from 0% to 90% throttle position. Then, above 90%, I enter something like 25mph. That way, it will kickdown to first gear when I'm at WOT and less than 25mph. He said this should work. But we see a major flaw doing it this way. When I am stalling it up in 2nd gear, if I accidentally flicker above 95% throttle, then it will kick me down to 1st gear and I overpower my brakes and REDLIGHT! I can't have that happening! But doing it this way will allow me to keep my burnout map, which starts me in 1st gear and shifts to 2nd gears shortly after that and holds me there. If I start my burnout in 2nd gear, the tires spin too fast too quickly and I don't get a good solid burnout.

Garrett's idea was to create a different map all together and lose my burnout map. This map will lock me in 2nd gear no matter what the throttle position or speed of the car is. The brake signal will control which map I will be in. So as soon as I release the brakes to launch the car, it will instantly switch me over to my regular shift map for the 1/4 mile starting in 1st gear. I plan to wire things up before the next time I hit the track within the next 2-3 weeks.

As for my burnout, I will need to relocate my manual shifter switch to the very end of the parking brake handle. That way, I can pull the ebrake and shift to 2nd with my right hand. Right now, the switch is at the base of the handle.

By being able to shift automatically and do this 2nd gear type launch, it will ensure that I am able to hit my 7300 rpm shift points precisely. Now, I will only have to worry about getting these slicks to hook with a 4500 rpm launch!

Also, I talked to Andre at Edge Racing today and gave him an update about all my testing. He is able to get me another 100-300 rpm of stall by machining a fresh billet aluminum stator blank. All without sacrificing any efficiency! So that's good. I was thinking this converter stall was maxed out without tapping into efficiency. But that's not the case. I was ready to start experimenting with Lightweight Racing ATF that has a lower viscosity in order to perhaps squeeze an extra 100-200 stall out of the converter. But I'm not going to worry about that until after the new stator is installed, probably sometime in April or May.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I went to the track this past weekend to test out the new Suprastick setup. There is a half second delay when switching from manual to auto or switching from one shift map to another. So, when I launch while flipping the switch at the same time, it launches in 2nd gear and 5 feet down the track, it finally kicks down to 1st gear and the slicks break loose. So right now, I'm still working on finding a solution in order to stall up in 2nd gear and launch in 1st.

If I manually shift, it kicks down to 1st gear instantly. So I may rig up a button/switch setup that I can push on the launch to manual downshift to 1st. Then before the 1-2 shift happens, I will need to switch over to the auto map, which has a half second delay. The delay won't be problem since I will be in 1st gear for at least a second or two. I just have WAY too many switches to flip while trying to cut a good light. It's not easy.

And with this new Suprastick setup, I lost my automatic burnout shift map. So, I have to lock the parking brake, start my burnout in 1st gear and manually shift to 2nd gear, then release the parking brake. It's not as hard as it sounds. It's pretty easy and more effective than my burnout map which made the 1-2 shift instantly when I hit 5K+ rpm. When I manually shift, I am able to spin the tires for a full second in 1st gear and get a nice coating of water on them, then as soon as I shift to 2nd, I get instant smoke and a very consistent burnout. The smoke coming from both tires are pretty even. Before, I would sometimes see more smoke from one tire than the other.

Also, this past weekend, I was able to get my ATF temp up to 190 degrees and saw a 4000 stall off idle. The last time at the track, I saw a 3900 stall off idle when the ATF temp was 165-175 degrees. 190 degrees is the highest I want to go because when I see 190 degrees with the sending unit located in the tranny pan, it's actually 205 degrees at the top of the tranny casing and even hotter in my torque converter.

I am still not running a tranny cooler.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I gotta admit - you are persistent when developing something. My take-away from this post is that the stall RPM can go up when the tranny temp goes up. I did not know that, but with my B&M tranny cooler, I could automatically kick on a big-o fan when the temp gets up to a set point. My tranny temp sensor is right on the pressure line coming out of the transmission and displays on a Cybedyne gauge on top the dash so I would know what's happening.

For what it's worth, I sometimes use a 4-stack of DP-DT inline interlocked push button switches, mounted in a box on the console, wired to set and shift gears on demand. This is good for dyno days, and just maybe for stalling up in 2nd gear and dropping down to first at the launch. That may require more coordination than I have, but worth trying since the shifts are immediate with the manual PB switches. This might be really effective with my built Altima 4AT w/4.5 final drive gears and locked diffy. Hmmmm....

Your posts are always interesting.

EDIT: This kind of DPDT PB switch bank, interlocked so only the pushed one is active.

http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWPushB-2.html

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Thanks.

Yeah, when the ATF gets hotter, it gets thinner and makes it easier for the torque converter to slip (or flash), resulting in a higher stall. If you want to reduce the stall, you can run thicker fluid. A lot of racers use thicker hydraulic fluid to reduce stall because of running a converter that is set too loose for their power band. But for me, I don't have a lot of low end torque like the V8 racers. The more power you make down low, the higher your converter will stall. Stall is also effected by your gearing and weight of vehicle. The longer your gears and heavier your car, the higher stall you'll see.

I may experiment with a thinner racing fluid one day if I ever need to squeeze out another 100-200rpm of stall. But Andre from Edge can build me a new stator and thinks he can get another 100-200rpm of stall without tapping into efficiency (losing top end HP). So I'll hold off on changing the ATF right now.

And yeah, I've seen your bank switches. Pretty cool. I don't think I need that myself since the Suprastick controls the upshift and downshift with a momentary on switch (12v signal). But that is only in manual mode, which provides pretty instant shifts just like if I rigged up what you're referring to. But I need the Suprastick to automatically shift for me so I can hit my shift points precisely.

I have two shift maps with the Suprastick. One of them holds 2nd gear while I stall it up. When I launch, I flip to the other map which gives me my automatic shifts starting in 1st gear. But there is a delay when I switch shift maps.

And manually shifting down the 1/4 mile is possible, but VERY hard to hit the shift points perfectly. A missed shift point by 200rpm will result in a 1/4 mile ET that is 2 tenths or more slower, which is huge. So it's hard to run consistent passes while manually shifting.

And if I ever need paddle shifters to make manually shifting easier, I may just get some cheap Push-To-Talk (PTT) Aviation switches, which have velcro that can wrap around the steering wheel.

But right now, I'm not sure if this 2nd gear stall up thing is just a phase or something I will use in the future. I am still testing. If I'm able to flash above 4100-4400rpm right off idle, then I won't need to stall it up in 2nd gear or try to install a trans brake or anything. So far, my best 60 foots have come from launching off idle. The slicks hook a lot more consistently this way. By stalling it up, it breaks the slicks loose easier and gives me worse and inconsistent 60s. But if I can get them to hook on a day when the track is prepped well and hooking, I know I can see some 1.6s 60s by stalling it up. So I'm not ready to give up.

And my other idea would be to swap in some smaller brakes to get them to clear 13" wheels and run the 24.5x9x13 MT slicks! Much more sidewall wrinkle instead of trying to get a 15" slick to hook. I think the S14 240sx guys like to use the stock Maxima brakes as an upgrade. Maybe I can downgrade to the 240sx brakes just as easily!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

If you aren't already following NWP on Facebook or Instagram, here are some posts you probably missed.

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Went to the track this past weekend to do some more testing. Here's a cool pic:



On my last pass, I felt the car pull hard left when I shut it down after the traps. Nothing appeared to be broken at first glance. So I just loaded it right on the trailer.

I rigged up some string and found the front left tire was noticeably toed out!



Yesterday, I went in for a computer alignment and confirmed that my string method was spot on. I got the toe back to where it should be, but I have not figured out how it moved. This week, I plan to closely inspect the inner tie rods to make sure they aren't coming unscrewed. That shouldn't be too hard since I just have to remove the PS rack boot.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I liked the 4-pushbutton stack enough that I built an electronic version (Shift_Fast_3) that uses a MSD RPM switch to signal the advance to the next gear. Shifting is immediate. The idea of stalling up to my limit (3K) in second gear is interesting, but I can't hold the car in first gear when using a lot of throttle right now, so some testing would be required. That's why I installed the 10.5x50x15 M/T ET Street radials on the front - to keep from busting loose too early - but my best launch technique for my full-sized/weight car is to stall up, let off and go 1/2 throttle just before the green light and quickly roll into the NX Max3 controller 75-shot while going WOT. After first gear, it goes into the second NX Max4 progressive controller and manages the six direct-port jets for whatever I programmed in. I was using a 150-shot combination of jets but found I had to wait until over 4K RPM before spraying or I got massive flow reversion and backfires - pretty exciting right there. Way too much tirespin for highway testing starting in 2nd gear, so I was working on launches with the E85, and pretty happy with what I came up with.

Lots more to figure out, though.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I had some similar problems with the huge DRs I'm using, and when I finished the locked-diffy in the Altima 4AT, steering became hazardous to my health, so I got all the front suspension bushings replaced with solid bushings, so I can at least steer the car again. I really gotta point the car in the direction I want it to go before I smack the throttle. Reminds me of my old '63 Econoline van w/rear-mounted Boss 302 that had a locked 4:56 Chevy third member. Line up the truck, straighten the front wheels, dump the clutch and wait until the front tires got back on the ground, then steer. Good ol' days.