All Motor All Motor Advanced Performance. Talk about Engine Swaps, Internal Engine work. Not your basic Y pipe and Intake Information.

grey99max building another 3.5

Old 03-28-2009, 07:25 AM
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Awesome work, I dont know how I missed this thread ? Maybe I was too buys searching for the X5 lol. Again great work & pics, this is going to be an incredible VQ35, what kind of power do you think this engine will output ?
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by doublea View Post
Awesome work, I dont know how I missed this thread ? Maybe I was too buys searching for the X5 lol. Again great work & pics, this is going to be an incredible VQ35, what kind of power do you think this engine will output ?
You're just too busy building your dream car - and it's gonna be fantastic when you finish it.

Power? 500WHP should be easy - then I'll take it up slowly until I see signs of problems. The short block can handle at least 1000 crank HP - but I bet that the drive train won't. My personal goal is 600WHP on nitrous. At the moment my present engine is set for 405WHP and it seems to handle that with no problems, and that's a stock short block and heads - just eBay cams and 175-shot of nitrous.

There's a lot of engine builds going on right now - should be an exciting summer.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
There's a lot of engine builds going on right now - should be an exciting summer.
I agree. And most of the awesome builds I'm hearing about are coming to MAXUS this summer! I also am hearing about a LOT of CRAZY secret projects going on that will be done in time for the MAXUS Drag Showdown. I'm talking about the 500-700whp range!

I hope you can find a truck and trailer and bring that car to MAXUS. I am pressed for time myself. I need to get this car running within the next couple months so I will have a little time to tune it with the UTEC. I may not have enough time to tune it for anything more than the 75 shot.
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:52 PM
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guess I won't have a chance

harold are you making the trip down
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
guess I won't have a chance

harold are you making the trip down
I don't think so. Four days and 2400 miles of towing my car (7 1/2 MPG) just wouldn't be much fun - just really expensive - and with my usual luck it will either rain on track day or I'll only get one pass before someone scatters their engine down the track and the lines get so long that the track closes before I get in a second pass.

Sounds negative? this happens to me all the time on tracks around here. I tow 180 miles and get one pass, or the management decides to invent a new Bracket class of street cars, throws all the cars off the track, and tries for two hours to scrape up 16 cars to fill in the new formula and most trailered cars start leaving when this madness started - oh, wait, that was last weekend at KCIR.

I figure you'll have a few monsters show up and the rest of the 100-car field will be Y-pipe and CAI cars. But that's just me.... Besides, I've got an engine to build, axles and transmission to upgrade, and another nitrous stage to integrate.


Last edited by grey99max; 03-30-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I don't think so. Four days and 2400 miles of towing my car just wouldn't be much fun - just really expensive - and with my usual luck it will either rain on track day or I'll only get one pass before someone scatters their engine down the track and the lines get so long that the track closes before I get in a second pass.

Sounds negative? this happens to me all the time on tracks around here. I tow 180 miles and get one pass, or the management decides to invent a new Bracket class of street cars, throws all the cars off the track, and tries for two hours to scrape up 16 cars to fill in the new formula and most trailered cars start leaving when this madness started - oh, wait, that was last weekend at KCIR.

I figure you'll have a few monsters show up and the rest of the 100-car field will be Y-pipe and CAI cars. But that's just me.... Besides, I've got an engine to build, axles and transmission to upgrade, and another nitrous stage to integrate.

I'm with you Harold. I was planning on going when I heard initially it was being held on the 20-21 Jun weekend. However I have a big race on the 27-28 and its a pretty expensive long haul to Washington, especially having to trailer the car.

We will just have to be happy to see the pics and video.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I don't think so. Four days and 2400 miles of towing my car (7 1/2 MPG) just wouldn't be much fun - just really expensive - and with my usual luck it will either rain on track day or I'll only get one pass before someone scatters their engine down the track and the lines get so long that the track closes before I get in a second pass.

Sounds negative? this happens to me all the time on tracks around here. I tow 180 miles and get one pass, or the management decides to invent a new Bracket class of street cars, throws all the cars off the track, and tries for two hours to scrape up 16 cars to fill in the new formula and most trailered cars start leaving when this madness started - oh, wait, that was last weekend at KCIR.

I figure you'll have a few monsters show up and the rest of the 100-car field will be Y-pipe and CAI cars. But that's just me.... Besides, I've got an engine to build, axles and transmission to upgrade, and another nitrous stage to integrate.

Originally Posted by Jime View Post
I'm with you Harold. I was planning on going when I heard initially it was being held on the 20-21 Jun weekend. However I have a big race on the 27-28 and its a pretty expensive long haul to Washington, especially having to trailer the car.

We will just have to be happy to see the pics and video.
Oh that's too bad! Since we have the entire track rented out, we will only have about 100 cars racing that day. So expect to get as many runs as you want.

We will also be inviting select groups of Nissans to race. We are hoping to get some really fast Zs and Skylines out there to compete.

And we are also working on getting some bigger sponsors to actually have prize money for the winners.

But I'm sorry to hear about your scheduling conflict Jim. I was really looking forward to having you come out and show some of these Maximas how it's done!
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:36 PM
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Maxus 09

Aaron, you're doing a heck of a job organizing this year's Maxus, but it's too far away for me to tow that far - then back home again. It's just me driving in the truck cab - nobody else in Kansas knows what a Maxima is.

So, have fun - enjoy the event - hope some monsters show up and set new records for everyone to see and envy, and I'll continue building up the Land Shark for my own amusement...

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Old 03-30-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Aaron, you're doing a heck of a job organizing this year's Maxus, but it's too far away for me to tow that far - then back home again. It's just me driving in the truck cab - nobody else in Kansas knows what a Maxima is.

So, have fun - enjoy the event - hope some monsters show up and set new records for everyone to see and envy, and I'll continue building up the Land Shark for my own amusement...

Thank you. Maybe we'll meet up at another event one day.
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:48 PM
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Back to my build again...

I'm still waiting for parts, it seems, so I decided to open up the water ports into each bank, following the JWT recommendiation for how best to use the HR head gasket.

Both sides before:




http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0791.jpg


Decided to use grandkid's modeling clay to fill in around the cylinder:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0796.jpg

Taped up each front cylinder and taped down shop cloths over the rear cylinders:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0794.jpg

I used those two small Dremel cutters to take out some of the wall.



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0805.jpg



Clay strips after cutting was done:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0802.jpg

Took a shop vac to everything before and after the clay strips were removed, peeled off the tape and rags, vacuumed some more..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9/DSCN0806.jpg

.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:40 PM
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Looks great! Thanks for posting pics. I see you posted this message in my 3rd gen swap thread.

I like the clay idea though. So you think you were able to keep all the shavings from getting in the coolant areas?
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
Looks great! Thanks for posting pics. I see you posted this message in my 3rd gen swap thread.

I like the clay idea though. So you think you were able to keep all the shavings from getting in the coolant areas?
I cleaned out your swap thread entry - wrong thread. Oops.

The clay and Gorilla tape made it quite easy to keep shavings from going everywhere. Grind everything - vacuum, remove clay, vacuum, remove tape and rags, vacuum. Never know I did it, except for the larger water ports.

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Old 04-02-2009, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I cleaned out your swap thread entry - wrong thread. Oops.

The clay and Gorilla tape made it quite easy to keep shavings from going everywhere. Grind everything - vacuum, remove clay, vacuum, remove tape and rags, vacuum. Never know I did it, except for the larger water ports.

Good job. Did you bother tilting the engine and sitting on the floor while doing the work?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:43 AM
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Nice work, i'll be doing the same thing, i just gotta wait till they re-deck the block and make sure ill be using HR headgasket, because if they take off to much material i'll have to get a thicker gasket (hope not cuz i already got the HR one lol), how much did you cut off? 11mm?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:52 AM
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BTW, here's the JWT article Grey mentioned for anybody reading on:

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wol...HEAD_BOLTS.pdf

It says to cut 11-12mm.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
BTW, here's the JWT article Grey mentioned for anybody reading on:

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wol...HEAD_BOLTS.pdf

It says to cut 11-12mm.
yea i got that thing memorized already lol. good that you posted it for anyone's future reference. I thought it was already up somewhere on here.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
Good job. Did you bother tilting the engine and sitting on the floor while doing the work?
Nope - as usual, I do a stand-up job. Tape over the front two cylinders, lay a wet T-shirt over the rear four, apply modeling clay, bend over and cut aluminum.

.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by streetzlegend View Post
Nice work, i'll be doing the same thing, i just gotta wait till they re-deck the block and make sure ill be using HR headgasket, because if they take off to much material i'll have to get a thicker gasket (hope not cuz i already got the HR one lol), how much did you cut off? 11mm?
Sure - exactly 11mm or something like that - those small Dremel cutters let you cut at a sharp angle downwards. I would have a problem if the cutter was much larger - there's not a lot of room in that well.

.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:25 PM
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wow...that is some crazy build...makes me think twice now since I'm doing another 3.5 build...

from your pix i see on this thread..your making me want to sell my maxima and slap on a fully built motor on my Z!
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:05 PM
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I got the test set of HR valve lifters Friday night. Today I put a "820" lifter in one of the exhaust valves on Cyl #3 and mounted that cam, then checked the valve clearance and it was .011 - within the .011-.015 spec for the exhaust. Whew.. that's a good sign.

Looking closely at the valve stems in the Cosworth heads, you can see where all the valve stems have been cut off - hopefully to a predetermined length so lifter selection won't be impossible and won't require grinding down the valve stems some more.

I also ordered a set of the "spark plug tubes" since the heads came without any. I thought I could scavenge these tubes from one of the older sets of heads here, but in looking at the FSM tonight I see that they are sealed in place with RTV. Good luck on ripping out one of those tubes.

This week the heads and cams will go to the machine shop for final measurements, then I can order 24 lifters of the right height for this engine - at $17.00+ each - Maybe some of the five I just received can be used...

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Old 04-06-2009, 07:49 AM
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Very nice.

What kind of spark plugs do you like using in your 3.5? I just found out recently that LFR7A-11 NGK Vpower Coppers don't exist or are very rare. So I just got some LFR5A-11's in the meantime to get the car started.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
Very nice.

What kind of spark plugs do you like using in your 3.5? I just found out recently that LFR7A-11 NGK Vpower Coppers don't exist or are very rare. So I just got some LFR5A-11's in the meantime to get the car started.
Thats odd, I was able to find the 7's, at napa. I did have to drive to their main warehouse few miles from here, but they had it in stock.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
Very nice.

What kind of spark plugs do you like using in your 3.5? I just found out recently that LFR7A-11 NGK Vpower Coppers don't exist or are very rare. So I just got some LFR5A-11's in the meantime to get the car started.
I've been using the LFR6A-11 NGK copper plugs with the shortened grounds and side-gapped for luck. These are available - I get them from sparkplug.com

Interesting what streetz said about LFR7A-11s - I'll have to check with NAPA locally. As long as I don't go lean like I was doing with fuel-feed problems, the LFR6A-11s worked and looked good. No plug lasts for long with 18:1 A/F and nitrous.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by streetzlegend View Post
Thats odd, I was able to find the 7's, at napa. I did have to drive to their main warehouse few miles from here, but they had it in stock.
Are you sure it was LFR7A-11? Or are you talking about BKRs? I can't find any record on the NGK website of an LFR7A-11 ever being made.

Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I've been using the LFR6A-11 NGK copper plugs with the shortened grounds and side-gapped for luck. These are available - I get them from sparkplug.com

Interesting what streetz said about LFR7A-11s - I'll have to check with NAPA locally. As long as I don't go lean like I was doing with fuel-feed problems, the LFR6A-11s worked and looked good. No plug lasts for long with 18:1 A/F and nitrous.
Yeah. I found the one step colder LFR6A-11's at my local parts store and on www.ngksparkplugs.com. But I am having trouble finding coppers in 2 steps colder. I found the Iridium 7s though and will probably start using those. But while I tune, I want to use coppers and keep an eye on them. Once I feel confident with my spark plug setup, I will get the iridiums and have them last a tad longer unless I can find an easy way to change the rear plugs on the 3.5 without pulling the intake manifold or elbow. It MAY be possible to do it. I'll find out quickly after the engine is installed.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:13 AM
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I've got both the 1-step and 2-step colder Iridiums awaiting the new motor. Still trying to decide on how cold I should go, but I bought both on a good deal so I picked them up to have on hand. To spray or not to spray, is the question.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Deckdout2 View Post
I've got both the 1-step and 2-step colder Iridiums awaiting the new motor. Still trying to decide on how cold I should go, but I bought both on a good deal so I picked them up to have on hand. To spray or not to spray, is the question.
Good luck with that - I won't use Iridium plugs - the center electrodes don't remove heat like the copper center electrode does, and I have melted a few, or they have bent because of overheating.

Copper centers pull the heat away from the combustion chamber much better than iridium electrodes - in my experience.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Good luck with that - I won't use Iridium plugs - the center electrodes don't remove heat like the copper center electrode does, and I have melted a few, or they have bent because of overheating.

Copper centers pull the heat away from the combustion chamber much better than iridium electrodes - in my experience.
Really? That's good to know. I'm going to have to look into that further. I've always used Iridiums when spraying and have thought them to be beneficial. I'll have to check out the copper ones out and see what I find. Thanks.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Good luck with that - I won't use Iridium plugs - the center electrodes don't remove heat like the copper center electrode does, and I have melted a few, or they have bent because of overheating.

Copper centers pull the heat away from the combustion chamber much better than iridium electrodes - in my experience.
The iridiums work great with nitrous if your EGTs and AFR numbers are ok. If you go lean like you said you are, then you'll melt any plug and cause major engine damage.

Coppers are a small step better though, but of course won't last nearly as long as the iridiums.

The iridium plug isn't to blame though. They are proven to work great with nitrous. It's the platinums you want to stay far away from when spraying. But if you are looking for a plug that will last a whole lot longer while spraying, iridiums are the way to go, especially since the plugs are tough to access on the 3.5 engine.

On my VE, I only used coppers since they were cheap and I inspected them VERY often, after every single 1/4 mile nitrous pass.

Last edited by Aaron92SE; 04-06-2009 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
The iridiums work great with nitrous if your EGTs and AFR is ok. If you go lean like you said you are, then you'll melt any plug and cause major engine damage.

Coppers are a small step better though, but of course won't last nearly as long as the iridiums.
That was my main reason behind using the iridiums, was for their slightly better lifespan. If you figure out how to change the rears without removing the manifold, let me know. That would be a great trick.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Deckdout2 View Post
That was my main reason behind using the iridiums, was for their slightly better lifespan. If you figure out how to change the rears without removing the manifold, let me know. That would be a great trick.
It takes me 15 minutes to change plugs. The intake comes off by removing the three bolts and two nuts on the LIM and pulling out one bolt on the rear brace, taking loose the rubber hose between the TB and intake tube, and lifting up the whole assembly and moving it over toward the driver's side. Three coils off in the back, three plugs out, reverse the process, then put things back together.

The front plugs are much simpler. I carry a bag of tools just for this purpose to the track, and have another nylon bag for nitrous jets and two wrenches.



I now have a stable fuel system which stays at 12:1 throughout the RPM range when WOT, nitrous or no nitrous - and all the plugs look the same now.

.

Last edited by grey99max; 04-06-2009 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:15 PM
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Have you tried to replace the spark plugs without removing the intake manifold? I briefly looked at the clearance when I first got my engine and it looked like the coil packs would clear.
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE View Post
Have you tried to replace the spark plugs without removing the intake manifold? I briefly looked at the clearance when I first got my engine and it looked like the coil packs would clear.
Not on my car - no way to get to them until the UIM is removed.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:50 AM
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Some more progress ordering parts

Since my test of one of the 2007+ HR lifters was a success, I took all the Cosworth cams and their heads to my machine shop this morning, and they will begin measuring for the correct size of HR lifter for each cam lobe - all 24 of them.

I paid $17.09 each for the five test lifters - maybe the machinist can find a better price for the group of 24 lifters I'll need. I sure hope so.

I sent off a set of 3.0 gears to StephenMax last night, to be machined for cam timing using just a longer pin to locate the cams. This makes up for the gears "lost in the mail"...

I also bought a pair of cyroed VLSD axles "NEW VLSD 500+hp capacity Axles (new 500 miles) " from an ORG member who is selling off all of his built car parts. It's kinda sad, seeing how much went into his car, and he's parting it out now.

And I also have a new set of spark plug tubes ordered - FedEx and UPS are wearing out my front door step!

"it's always something"
.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:42 PM
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Harold, I know the answer is yes, but just making sure. With the new power your going to be putting down are you still going to keep the tranny stock? I know I am.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by streetzlegend View Post
Harold, I know the answer is yes, but just making sure. With the new power your going to be putting down are you still going to keep the tranny stock? I know I am.
I'm going to change the transmission out at the same time I replace the engine (and axles and TC) with my spare '01 AE VLSD trans. This way I can break in all 4,000 new parts at the same time... Actually, my present VLSD tranny continues to work just fine - except that it doesn't like to shift until it's warmed up - heck, I don't work anymore until I'm warmed up...

I found out something new today - it seems you can cyro your transmission as a complete unit - without disassembling anything! There is a container where the tranny is placed, then it's dipped in liquid nitrogen until about -350*F then slowly warmed up. My machinist builds for a Pro Stock nut that builds world-record-class cars for people, and this guy does it - a lot. I'm going to get more details, but dippings things in liquid nitrogen seems to be getting more common - there's a place in this town that does it, even. I might try it if it sounds sane - and not too expensive.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:11 PM
  #116  
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I wonder if this will work for 6sp also? Let me know. I need to find a way to make it a little stronger.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:40 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by kzoosho View Post
I wonder if this will work for 6sp also? Let me know. I need to find a way to make it a little stronger.
OK - I'll check sometime this week. You know, if you can "cyro in a can" then could you do an entire engine that way? I have no idea how the transmissions are done - or what they are - but this beats tearing down a tranny to a bucket of parts, cyroing it, and re-assembling it later. Man, this could be really useful for a lot of things.

Has anyone else heard of this practice - "cyro in a can" ???

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Old 04-09-2009, 10:33 PM
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this sounds super interesting! Maybe I can cryo my differential on the Camaro. That stock 8.5" GM diff is a weak POS LOL

Harold the build is looking great keep up updated! I still say you boost it
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:16 AM
  #119  
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My big concern would be what it would do to the seals? If you have to pull the whole thing apart to replace the input shaft and striker rod seal (5&6spds) afterwards, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it as a whole assembly. I'd also be curious on the auto as to how it might affect the clutches and bands. Not everything benefits from cyro treatment, and it can have some 'interesting' side effects.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:25 AM
  #120  
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If this cryo dipping proved to be "cost effective" / beneficial I would do it.It would only set you back 2hrs in labor & $30 in parts to replace the seals on a 5 spd manual.(if needed).
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