smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Last year, I won the NASA National Championship (TTE) in very mild B15 Spec-V (w 180whp). So this year we received approval to run a VQ35 in the B15 with a two class bump, so we'll be racing against Elises and M3s in TTC.

I picked up an 02 VQ - and finished all the wiring, mounts, bellhousing, etc. I relocated the Alternator to the AC compressor location and lowered the motor for a better CG. It's running an 04 Spec-V tranny, 04 Max ECU with UpRev protuner. My questions to the forum are how should I build the motor for longevity?
The car is gutted, caged - so things like a heater, cruise, etc are non issues. FYI - the motor cannot make more than 257whp, otherwise we'll be disqualified in TTC. They have dynos at the track and run GPS' in the cars to pick out cheater motors.

I picked up a lot of good info on this forum already but I've got about one week to get the motor together and in the car before turning to the suspension, and getting it ready for its debut at CMP in early Feb.


This is what I plan on doing:
1. Plenum Spacers from Aaron
2. 350Z clutch and PP
3. Fidanza flywheel
4. OBX VQ30 headers and midpipe (not the shorties). I assume the Altima SER headers wont clear the torque brace?

Questions:
Can I run the RevUp oil pump from the RWD VQ?
Should I mod the thermostat to run cooler? Whats the best way?
Would a VQ30 oil pan increase the oil capacity or prevent starvation?
Can I run a larger TB that will work with my ECU?
Should I mod the intake or change it (350 intake)? These two questions relate to how can I get the motor close to 257whp.
How high can I safely rev the motor and advance the timing?

Any other ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'll post some race results if anyone is interested. Thanks so much!!







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP1c32x7cno

nalc

iTrader: (11)

I think that the stock 350z intake has something funky with it where the front three cylinders don't get enough airflow, but it can be ported or machined or modified to correct it. Jime was telling me about it at Maxus, but I don't remember all of the details. Might want to ask him.

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

you can run the RevUp oil pump
you cant run a bigger TB due to DBW unless you conver it to cable.


are you allow to run ITBs in this class ?

if so give me a shout , We have the Jenvey ITB's for the VQ.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

The way NASA classifies a motor swap is anything can be done to the motor (except spray and forced induction) to get to the maximum allowed hp without taking on mod pts. They are approving the HP.

ITBs would be trick, but I've seen plenty of VQs getting near 257whp without them and with some basic mods. Out of curiosity, how much are they?

Ok, so the RWD RevUp oil pump fits the FWD VQ.. thanks!

nismology

iTrader: (8)

It's actually the front 2 cylinders that are a bit starved for air.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

UpRev allows you to run diff inj maps for each cylinder.. to take care of any lean situations.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

plenum spacers seem to the thing for fixing that on my350z. My friend have Zs and it becomes obvious when they....yea....exact same mods but the one that doenst have the plenum spacer is just utterly left behind. I believe kinetics has one that is kinda like a space saver type design but u dont lose the low end torque of an unmodified plenum but still solves the starvation problem, my friend had one.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

im rolling on the dyno feb 6th, just a bolt on VQ with rev-up cams, people say i should be able to clipse 250whp we'll see, but i'll post my results.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Smokin joe, yeah you can use the RWD rev up oil pump, it is the same part number, same motor EXACTLY internally. Using the 3.0 pan in my opinion would not help with anything, they are basically almost the same pan.

For cooling I seriously recommend using the HR headgasket along with modifying the coolant passage (very very simple to do), and also running a 350z lower 170(or i think 180) tstat. the HR gasket improves the flow and balances it out through all cylinders, the normal DE gasket focus the flow more on one cylinder, so its not as great with cooling. Everytime I do a highway run my coolant temp actually goes down rather than up, and im talking bout miami weather, so this is really efficient setup. I also recommend an oil cooler, overall the car should run great and can beat it to hell without having a single heating issue. My coolant mix is mostly water, id say 20% coolant, and also a bottle of Water Wetter. Usually driving around temps are at 180-190(depending on traffic), if on highway (which is mostly wat you'll be doing, nonstop driving) my temp gets down to the mid 170s even if i floor it.

btw cool video man, and congrats on that accomplishment.

tuko316

Headers exhaust intake spacers and a tune should net you close to 250whp. You could try rev up cams and valvetrain if you have the time. With the rev up or HR valvetrain you can rev to 7500rpm with no worries. If you keep the stock valvetrain I would take technosquares advice and not rev past 7100rpm

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the good info. Even tho the motor is on a stand, I dunno if I'll have time to pull the heads and replace the HG. I assume the coolant passage mod requires the heads to be removed. Is this correct? I will go with the 350Z lower T replacement as suggested - and the motor has a koyo 2 row.

I'll do a search for an oil cooler mod and see what comes up. Sounds like the stock intake is fine, as is the valvetrain for 7K. I will add the rev up oil pump. No change to the oil pan. No change to the TB. Add 350Z clutch and Fid fly. 3.0 95-99 Headers + midpipe. And the plenum spacer.

Any suggestions on timing? 18BTDC too much?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Well aware...

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

i just felt like stating the obvious

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Yeah the heads need to be off to do the modification. If you cant do that, u still shouldnt have a problem, just get the lower temp tstat and oil cooler, there is a writeup here of the cooler I have, was only $115 or so, ill try n find the thread. simple installation.

in my case im not to familiar with n/a timing on the 3.5 so couldnt help you there. im sure others can chip in.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

I located the cooler thread with the sandwich plate - seems straightfoward enough. Just curious, is there is a resource to go to for the HR cams and HG on the board? Or just search car-part.com?

tuko316

You can get the headgasket from the dealership. Go to my350z.com to find used cams.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Yes, all you do is contact Dave B, ill dig up his number if you want. His at nissan and always gives us great prices, cool guy too. u can get everything through him, HG, rev up pump, cams, everything. and you'll save a good amount of money.

update:
btw, I just PM'ed you Dave B's number.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Got it! Thx, I'll give him a call.

I have a question about cams/heads. I was going to PM SR20DEN, but most of probably know the answer, so here it goes.

The RevUp was only 05-06, and the HR is the 300HP in 07, but they both have CVTC on the exh cams. Unlike the 02 VQ I have. Can either of the RevUp or HR cams work in the 02 VQ as a straight bolt in, or is there more work involved? I found a set of HR heads, complete for $500. Not sure if thats a good price or if they will even work.

I'll do some research as well. Thanks for the tips on getting this together.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Just ordered the Revup oil pump, 350Z Tstat, HR headgaskets and HR springs and retainers from Dave. Nice guy, great prices!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

So THAT'S why he wouldn't answer the phone when I called him earlier!

What do you plan on using for ECU? Personally I say to make the engine as big and badass as you can make it, then dial things back with the ECU. That way your torque curve can be flat as a table just below their threshold. There's a guy running a modded 240SX on another forum that did the same thing. it's got 400+lb of tq but he's limited to 300hp. his torque curve is adjusted by the ECU to hold it just under 300hp all the way through the power band.

cheating? no. creative? yes.

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

Saw this thread earlier today and was going to suggest the same thing.

You could use mild cams and keep your TQ higher than the HP. It is possible to make 257 WHP or more (On a Dynojet 248C) with a VQ30, so a VQ35 shouldn't have to much trouble reaching that power. Just pull timing up top if need be with your tuning computer to keep it legit.

Oh if you need an external oil cooler that will work with a VQ.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p.../OilCoolerKits

I'm planning on running this kit along with an upgraded PS cooler and brake cooling ducts as I have a two day open track event at Calabogie this August with 7 hours of open track time each day.

Oh just curious what front strut setup are you using on that B15 track car? I'm assuming that B15 Moton track kit? Reason I ask is that I had trouble with the Koni yellows in '09 and was wondering if their is something better out there for track (ab)use.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Okay, I was close on the torque.. 380ft lb was his max torque, scooting right along 300hp through the power band.

This is of course a turbo, but you can do the same on an NA car with the ECU and DBW.. just don't let it open the throttle all the way if you have to.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rdmtsjr/...90620524845714

As you can see from the link, it's a 93 240SX built for NASA TTS.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Thats an interesting idea - holding the HP w timing or TB. Uprev software can do just that, even control fuel and spark to each cylinder. Its very cool.

I need to research how this will work. NASA uses GPS' installed in each car for Time Attack. Calc time, dist, weight to compute HP. If they suspect a cheater motor, they will disqualify you. They had issues with cheater turbo cars at Nationals.

We killed the competition all year in the QR B15, and they added 75lbs of ballast to the car for this year. I dont want to get crazy with the motor unless the competition is running all over us.

I'll look into the idea tho - interesting. Thanks for the link on the oil cooler. I'll pick one up.

Does anyone know where I can get a valve spring tool - and where I should set timing?

Thx!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

I found a valve spring compressor at the local parts store.. It's at least a "real" parts store and not an Autozone/Slowreillys.
Think I paid about $40 for it or so- it's been about 5 years and I still haven't even used it! Loaned it out to several friends, but never needed it myself.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Matt - I'll see what I can find.

Joe, I run koni yellows with 550 GCs on all four corners. 2 of the konis are shot, and they have been all year in 09. This year we are moving to KSport Race custom valved c/o's Probably the same rates, maybe 50lbs more on the front. I dunno how the VQ will throw off the balance, but with the QR, the konis and GCs were the perfect set up. Although you can see the car bounce coming out of turns.. we had zero rebound in two of em.

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

Ya those Konis don't seem to like road courses + R comps. For street, auto-x, and road courses with street tires I didn't have a problem. It was 4~5 hot laps with the R comps at NJMP and the front left strut started going soft. I'm going to have them rebuilt and revalved soon and will try another season, if they start crapping out again I'm trying something else.

The VQ will add some front weight but you have to add that 75 pounds of penalty weight that should help balance out the car, use that penalty weight to your advantage. Also the TQ gain from the VQ should negate that extra weight.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

smokinjoe, here is another alternative for the oil cooler, very inexpensive and a good cooler: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-10189/ its the one I have on my turbo built max.

Also, here is a couple of pictures of where you need to shave off, on the block for the improved coolant passage, I PM'ed you JWT's PDF of how much to cut, and etc.. You just have to be careful that with the tool your using you dont scratch the cylinders surface like I did lol. I nicked the outer edge but not deep enough to be a problem with the sealing of the head gasket.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Do you still have to add 75lb of ballast if you go to the VQ, vs just making up the difference in weight?
i.e. if the VQ weighs 50lb more than the QR, then you only have to add 25 lb ballast?

Just curious..

FWD Nissans and Konis just don't seem to get along very well. Have you talked to Ground Control about a set of Advance Design inserts to replace the Konis?

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

I would consider Advance Design, but KSport sponsors the Sentra and we're excited about trying their race valved coilovers and changing the perspective on their products. We'll see if they are up to the task.

We were classed @ 257whp and 2800lbs. The ballast/weight issue pertains to QR powered B15s. Our race weight (with me) was 2705.. so the car weighed just over 2500lbs. With the VQ and new full cage (up from a 4pt) I expect the weight to get close to 2800lbs. Either way, we are stripping the doors, glass, heater core from the car and adding ballast (based on the results of corner weighting) to get us at 2800lbs with 1/2 tank of fuel. The B15 needs at least 30lbs of ballast in the rear to keep it from dog legging and getting tail happy on corner entry.

With the battery in the trunk, I beleive the VQ difference is 25lbs over the QR.. and we relocated the alternator (no a/c), so it may be less. Time will tell.

Streetz - thanks for the JWT PDF and pics from your motor - VERY HELPFUL!! I'll speak to Dave and order up the HR headbolts instead of the ARPs.

I cant thank all of you enough, this has really helped me get the motor together for racing.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Anyone tried this intake before? The intake piping from the TB would be easy to fab up for a FWD, wonder if it will bolt up with little effort?

nalc

iTrader: (11)

http://www.intensepower.com/coinmavq03.html

For some reason, I thought grey99max or another drag racer here was looking into one.

http://forums.maxima.org/other-cars/...-manifold.html
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...her-3-5-a.html
http://forums.maxima.org/other-cars/...35-plenum.html

tuko316

Iirc all people on my350z who bolted that manifold on didn't see a gain in power. Some speculate because they. Didn't have a built motor to reek the benefits.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for posting the links Nalc.. from what was mentioned, it may not make much of a difference below 6K.. and certainly not worth the money, even used.

I was kicking around ideas with my wrench guy about intakes (350Z, etc) and came across this one. We'll keep looking at different designs.

BTW, the clutch, PP, l/w fidanza, HR valve springs & keepers, HR head bolts, 350Z Tstat, Revup oil pump all came in today. Just waiting on the HR gaskets and JWT valve spring compressor to finish the motor and drop it in the Spec-V.

I took some measurements today and I believe the 95-99 Maxima radiator (2 row Koyo) will drop right in with little to no modification to the cradle or hood. If thats the case, us Sentra guys dont need to run the long crossover lower radiator hose - which was usually a hack job.

2 weeks until she runs, and 1st race is 2/13-2/14 @ CMP.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

goodluck man, cant wait to see how it runs.

tuko316

This is pretty cool. Hope the build goes smooth and works out for you.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

The QR is out and I've started working on the VQ. Labeling the sensors and bagging the bolts.






I noticed one of the sensors by the oil pan is sheered off. I assume this is either a oil pressure or oil level sensor - correct? Does anyone have a spare? I'll check car-part.com too.




Also, I have been unable to locate a How To for the head removal/replacement. The how/tos on this forum are more cosmetic or routine maintenance. Does anyone have a link handy? I pull down the FSM too. The cams and top part of the head look amazingly clean. Very happy about that. The plugs tho, are dirty and sooty. We'll need to do a tune and get it running better. I'll do a compression check before pulling off the heads and post the numbers.






After talking with Kevin (B15/VQ), I've abandoned the idea of the OBX equal length headers over the shorties. Probably not much power difference to be had and it appears there would be an interference issue with the axle support. The shorties fit just fine.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Big J

car will get a 350z ECU.... won't be something a street car can do because we don't need a lot of systems a street car does, and I have access to tuning software that will let me disable any check engine light criteria and the NATs system.

We'll have full control over the ECU.

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

you were talknig about IM's so.. i just wanted to know if you are aware of aarons block off plate other wise known as the VIAS delete mod,.. as well as the SSIM(secret sauce intake mani) mod,.. which ppl cut the shelf out of their IM,...which would cost you nothing if you knew what you were doing...

also.. in the 5g class section.. sparks03max has a kinetix manifold port matched to aarons spacers as well as port matched to a LIM for 550$,... great price...heres the link .. http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...wp-spacer.html

might help you out.. good luck.. i enjoy reading the thread...keep it updated

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Here's the best valve spring compressor tool I've ever used. It's perfect for the VQ35DE heads if you are going to remove them. With the JWT tool you have though, it will take much longer than this Snap-On tool, but you can also replace the springs with the heads ON the block.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

Here's how quick it took me to remove the keepers once the heads were on the bench. Installing the keepers is just as easy as well.