SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I have discovered one more difference between the Maxima and 350Z flywheels. In the past I have always said that with two changes, one being the clock of the flywheel and the other being the offset of the timing ring, one would have basically trouble free use of the 350z flywheels. A few years ago I bought a Tilton flywheel & Clutch combo for the 350Z and installed it in my A33B. And aside from the problems of using it on the street because of it's incredible lack of mass and extremely clunky operation, I had never had a problem with starting the car.
After a few ordeals with that clutch and sometime later I ended up with the Ebay special XTD lightweight 350Z flywheel. It was much cheaper than any of the other options (Fidanza, etc.) and had about the same mass, however it's made of chromoly steel, not aluminum. It's daily driving ability and ease of operation were about as good as the stock flywheel and I loved it for that. But there was always one problem about it that drove me crazy and some others who have tried it. When you start the car the ring gear doesn't quite match up right with the pinion on the starter. Some users ended up having to remove the flywheel almost immediately because of starting noise and damage to the ring gear caused by improperly meshing with the starter.
Well for the past few years I have just ignored the sound. I hadn't taken the time to remove the transmission to try to resolve the issue. However a couple of weeks ago my starter for some reason stopped meshing with the flywheel altogether. I thought perhaps the starter had gone bad but I could find nothing wrong with it. So I tried another starter and had some similar problems. The new starter would start the car for about two days, after that it would only make some horrible grinding sounds.
So here I am today with the transmission out of the car and four different flywheels sitting on my workbench to compare. What I have discovered is that for some odd reason, and who knows why, Nissan at some point had decided to make the starter ring gear smaller in diameter on the 350Z. It isn't much smaller but it is enough to cause starter problems in some cases. The OE A33B Maxima flywheel has 125 teeth on it's ring gear. the Tilton 350Z flywheel has 124 teeth and so does the XTD flywheel. Now here comes the interesting part. The Fidanza flywheel that is supposed to be for the A33B Maxima also has 124 teeth meaning that it too is smaller in diameter than what it is supposed to replace. By looking at the Fidanza it's easy to tell that they've built this flywheel to fit both cars. It has two different key holes, one for FWD and another for RWD. It appears they just add the timing ring shim to make it work for the FWD application. Now for anyone who is using this flywheel problem free this is probably not worth concern. This post is only to inform those who may have starter noise what one potential issue may be.
So now we know of three differences between the flywheels, not my previously mentioned two.

smokinjoe

iTrader: (2)

Can you use the 350Z starter or starter gear? I wonder if the pinion is larger? While I am at Z1 on monday, I can snap a picture or count teeth if that would help.

BTW, this is sort of unrelated - but we are installing a Z33 ecu on the 5.5 motor and I was thinking I would have to clock the maxima flywheel for the Z33 to read it correctly. But all the ECU cares about is TDC, problem solved w/o changing a thing.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I haven't had the chance to look at the pinion on the 350Z starter. But I did figure out how to shim my starter to make it work quietly with the XTD flywheel.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Good to know... I'm actually kind of glad I accidentally ended up with the clutchmasters flywheel instead of fidanza as it appears to be made specifically for this car.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

It might be the exact same Fidanza. The picture on their website looks exactly like it.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

My picture comparisons make it look different... not to mention that it only has 1 alignment hole. Plus I'm not having any starter problems. Maybe they are identical.

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

where are the pics.. post the best one up and we will start counting teeth.. all 125 of them


<><><>EDIT<><><>

just saw your pics from .. http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/6...tall-pics.html .. and its a rough picture to count.. but i just counted 124 teeth

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Seems it does have 124 teeth.

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

nice work with the paint lol.. i figured someone would do that.. i just counted one my one with the mouse.. hey as long as it works for you with no starter problems.. and maybe the oem does have 124 and it was a miscount.. just sayin..

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I counted it five times and I put a scratch mark on every tenth tooth when I counted it. Also when I stood them up side by side I could clearly see that the OE flywheel was taller, meaning it was a larger diameter.

I will post a 12mp picture of it tomorrow.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Fidanza-A33b.jpg

OE-A33b.jpg

Deckdout2

iTrader: (151)

That's a rough looking pressure plate on that Fidanza/Spec setup. The car that thing came out of must have had some MAD POWER!

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

HAHA i just got that.....

allblackmax96

iTrader: (4)

i've been running an 06 350z clutch and flywheel setup for a bout a year now and ive had no real issues with it after the install was done.the starters always been noisy on my car because of the grinding of the bellhousing that was done to fit the setup(starter isn't tightly sealed on the bellhousing). the Z clutch grabs much quicker and holds NA power great.but it doesnt seem to like nitrous too much...im looking into a new flyhweel/clutch setup for the summer/fall. any good input on the clutchnet stage 3 for a 5.5.??

Unklejoe

iTrader: (6)

Any word on using a 350z starter?

Does anyone know if it has a different gear?

superspec

any fixes for this?

i just installed a fidanza flywheel for a "maxima" and tried to start it. grind grind grind. i pulled the starter and rotated the gear and rotated the flywheel thinking maybe the teeth were hitting each other causing them not to mesh. same thing, grinding.

does the starter sit to far in or out?

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Ok wait.

What's going on here?

You can't use RWD flywheels in FWD cars? Cause that's just wrong..... Wrong, wrong, wrong.... It's being done right now as I type this. And the problem wasn't the starting ring.

superspec

it was sold to me as a maxima flywheel. i bought it at least 6 months ago and couldnt begine to tell you who it came from.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

It's quite common w/ Fidanza's construction of the flywheels for the bolts to become broken and the ring spin or move around while you're trying to start it, the fidanza is a surprisingly fragile piece of metal (go figure it's aluminum )

I would check for all of the teeth and make sure they're tight on the flywheel.

Or hell take it apart!

Be careful and use only the CORRECT tools, the bolts are EASILY damaged.

superspec

everything in it is brand new except for the starter. i put all new FW bolts in, new clutch,pp, and flywheel. right now im trying to figure out which way to go. i just put it all back together yesterday and today only to have this hit me.

monday im going to go to a local starter shop to see if they can put a 350 starter gear in the maxima starter since from what i have read the fidanza FW is missing a tooth.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

I have a Fidanza, and a local is using a 350z flywheel in his car.

No grinding problems here.

What starter are you using?? I may check that out...

I'm using a L31 Altima 5spd starter, the other guy is using a A33B 6MT starter.

All manual VQ35FWD starters are the same fyi.

superspec

this is a vq35 in a sentra spec v . im not sure if i still have the qr starter or if its a vq starter.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Could be your problem!! I will have to check @ work tomorrow to see if they can be mistaken, because the diameter of the QR flywheel is DEF different than the diameter of the VQ.

McSteve

iTrader: (3)

also are u using 5spd or 6spd with the 3.5?

superspec

its the stanard 6 speed that we all have. my bellhousing has been swapped to the vq bellhousing...thats why im here haha. i essentially have the same motor as you guys just in a different body.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I had to shim my starter in such a way as to angle the snout closer to the flywheel. It didn't take very much, and I have not had starter noise since I first posted in this tread.

As for the (Z33) 350z starter pinion, I could be wrong, but as I remember I was told that it has the same number of teeth. If you go that route I suppose we'll find out for certain if there are any differences.

superspec

thye may have the same number of teeth but the pitch would be different to compensate for the lack of the extra tooth on the max. im goin to check that option tomorrow. if no go then ill call fidanza and see what theyll do for me. if they wont do anything then im goin to try moving the starter around. if all else fails im pulling the FW and buying another one. im not going to drive a car that sounds like ticking time bomb every time you bump the starter.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The pitch on the pinion gears would not be different in this case. Any pitch or tooth spacing differences between 124 and 125 teeth would be so insignificant that there wouldn't be enough to change the pitch of the pinion gears if they have the same number of teeth.

superspec

does the pinion need to be closer or farter away from the FW? how about shaving down the pinion gear teeth a little?

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The snout needs to be angled closer to the flywheel.

superspec

any tips or pics on how you did that?

superspec

just an update:

i took a 6" piece of coat hanger today and made a half circle to fit around the starter. i put it from about 12 oclock to 5 oclock on the starter and tightened everything back down. the car started right up with no odd noise except for one that didnt sound "stock" and i can only guess that its because of the aluminum flywheel vs the stock steel FW.

thanks for the shim idea SR20DEN and which way to shim it! it was nice to hear that sexy vq start up again instead of the roar of the SQR23 with its 4" exhaust.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

LOL I did the exact same thing when I first started trying to do this. Mine lasted awhile then somehow fell apart. I hope yours works better and I am glad I could be of help to you.

The way I have mine setup now is with a couple of washers in between the starter and the bellhousing. I didn't put the bolts through the washers, I just put the washers in on one side of the bolts so they force the starter to be at an angle. Essentially the same way the coat hanger trick worked.

superspec

sounds good, i live in a little more bearable climate so maybe the road conditions wont eat away at the hanger.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

It wasn't climate, (I am in North Carolina, not New England) the coat hanger I used just couldn't handle the pressure very long and loosened up to where is was no longer effective.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

If you're talking to me.... My car was a 3.0... Now it's motorless...

The other guy running the 350z FW is a 3.5.

And we're both 6spd.

The L31 5spd is a 6mt w/o a 6th gear fyi, same transmission basically (Cable operated, brackets are the same, flywheels are the same, blah blah blah).

My starter is very loud too, I hate it... Maybe it is my flywheel then hrmm....

I'm glad you fixed it then, so to my understanding the starter is sitting too far towards the passenger side of the vehicle and somehow grinding w/ the teeth on the FW?

Edit:

yes it's true a LW flywheel = a louder starter noise, can't explain why though, just is.