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maximelt's all time build NA VQ35DE/HR hybrid
got a motor being built:noes:
block-cleaned inspected honed by me and my balls and drill heads-cleaned and valve job cometic HR Head studs and Main studs HR cams HR Pistons w/HR rings Stock DE rods with ARP 202-6006 bolts using stretch method I put the arp lube on the threads but not under the head bolts.oops I just put the heads on torquing torquing those was a pita. now I have a timing cover that only has one oil channell but should use two. so diffrebnt ftfront cover entrirely. 2 make good oil pressure hi rpm you use a revup oil pum fashow. gotta get lash good. tried a better girdle no make, stock one looks diecast metal ha. Now workin on valvelash. adjustment. |
Nice! If you went through all of that to take everything apart, why didn't you get some Eagle rods and put in there instead of putting the stock ones back in?
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I wanted to! but I figure the stock ones should be ok NA? This is my first build so I just want it working first as a DD.
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Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8396415)
I wanted to! but I figure the stock ones should be ok NA? This is my first build so I just want it working first as a DD.
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HR mains fit? News to me.
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1 Attachment(s)
Just the HR main Studs.. Yeah they fit!
Question: is this a 3.0 or 3.5 inner timing cover: Attachment 53691 |
Originally Posted by ranmas2004
(Post 8396506)
Yeah, but they are alot lighter than stock and can take more abuse. The lightweight alone will make it easier for the crank to turn them. But Stock is OK, its not needed.
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Originally Posted by grey99max
(Post 8396973)
Since the crankshaft+rod+piston weights are balanced from the factory, with no external balancing done by the flywheel or front pulley, I believe that if you change anything - pistons and rods especially - that the entire assembly needs to be re-balanced to survive higher revs. Just saying....
just searched and the DE weighs 393-395g |
Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8396945)
Just the HR main Studs.. Yeah they fit!
Question: is this a 3.0 or 3.5 inner timing cover: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...de/ebay002.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y...0/IMG_1342.JPG A way to tell is mount it to the block with the heads and see if the top center inner bolt for the cam cap lines up. |
^thanks for that 95naSTA! So is the 3.5 cover better because of the extra top oil passage?
EDIT: just looked up some pics and it's for the oil pathways in the heads...my heads have the oil pathways and this timing cover doesn't feed those with oil...maybe not necessary. |
10 Attachment(s)
some pics: Sorry if there are too many, mods can delete if necessary!
when it arrived: I was going to just swap it in, but the freight carrier dropped my engine so I thought I better tear into it a little..It had a bent stering pump and I could see that the motor mount was bent up. Attachment 53426 heads off: Attachment 53427 Attachment 53428 used HR pistons...but New to me bought for $50 Attachment 53429Attachment 53430 Honed with ball hone: Attachment 53431 Attachment 53432 Think piston knock may have caused this? Attachment 53433 with Cometic .04" Gaskets: Attachment 53434 Valve job: Attachment 53435 Anyways...thanks for viewing! I need more parts but the block is assembled! |
were did you score HR pistons that cheap? and are you just using the HR cams but the same heads as the DE? or using the whole top end of an HR?
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Originally Posted by artilarygoboom
(Post 8399925)
were did you score HR pistons that cheap? and are you just using the HR cams but the same heads as the DE? or using the whole top end of an HR?
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before you seal the motor up you positive those pistons will not strike the head with out a visit to the machine shop. HR pistons are not just pop in and go on a DE block&head.
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Originally Posted by Crusher103
(Post 8400224)
before you seal the motor up you positive those pistons will not strike the head with out a visit to the machine shop. HR pistons are not just pop in and go on a DE block&head.
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are they HR cams in DE heads? or HR heads too?
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are you going to fix up the coolant passages and add the pathfinder coolant mod? Should be a must have for anyone.
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Originally Posted by artilarygoboom
(Post 8400762)
are they HR cams in DE heads? or HR heads too?
Originally Posted by FastnFuriousMax
(Post 8400806)
are you going to fix up the coolant passages and add the pathfinder coolant mod? Should be a must have for anyone.
EDIT No I did not. Won't I drill thru an oil line? LOL SABOTAGE!!!! |
cant wait to see dyno results
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2 Attachment(s)
UPDATE:
I just tried an idea out and I think it will work to supply the 3.5 gen secondary chain tension with oil. The 3.5 inner timing case has an extra secondary oil channel and the 3.0 does not...I have good cam sprocket/chain clearance, and I plan to strap it in very securely: Attachment 52432 Attachment 52433 |
any input on this? does everybody else do the swap and not feed oil to the secondary tensioners?!?!
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Originally Posted by McSteve
(Post 8417502)
any input on this? does everybody else do the swap and not feed oil to the secondary tensioners?!?!
The outer 3.5de case has the intake cam oil injectors built in, probably to either oil the variable timing cam gear mechanisms on the intakes and/or to inject oil into the intake cams. Also I was looking and I think the 3.5de intake cam sprocket bolts are hollow, thus confirming the oil injector theory... |
Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8400893)
thy're de heads, sorry I didn't answer the first time..
Is that where you shave/dremel the coolant passages? I did a bit of that but not a whole lot...you should be able to see a little taken out in the pic w/the hr pistons installed, compared to the pic with the de pistons installed. EDIT No I did not. Won't I drill thru an oil line? LOL SABOTAGE!!!! http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Feat..._BnTui-L-1.jpg We changed the water flow around to mimic what Nissan has done on the latest variants of the VQ engine, the VQ35HR and the VQ37VHR. In these engines, the water comes up from the block around each individual cylinder by the hotter exhaust valves and then out to the radiator. This is done by using the head gaskets for these engines. The blocks water passages must also be enlarged in the area near the bores so the passages in the new gaskets line up with the ones in the block. The revised water flow significantly improves cooling on older VQ engines, essential for ones seeing higher boost. and http://vq35.com/blog/2010/07/go-with...ooling-system/ http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=3011 http://vq35.com/blog/wp-content/uplo...-circuit23.jpg http://vq35.com/blog/wp-content/uplo...g-circuit2.jpg Seems like a cheap way to improve the cooling system. I would expect anyone who is familiar with building VQ engines would suggest this... |
^ Damn...I should of done that! I don't plan on going NEAR 600HP though, but still a thought! (I'm not shooting for any crazy HP, I just want a faster street demon than what it is now lol) I have cometic head gaskets on there and I read they're reusable for about 4-5 tear downs...If I could make mods to those gaskets for increased water flow then that would be awesome, but I cannot see a way to block/cover the original DE water inlet reliably without actually buying an HR headgasket and tossing the Cometic, which were $175 for both.
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Unless you plan on road racing. Its not really necessary. Stock DE cooling will be more than enough.
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Originally Posted by Crusher103
(Post 8420135)
Unless you plan on road racing. Its not really necessary. Stock DE cooling will be more than enough.
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Originally Posted by grey99max
(Post 8396973)
Since the crankshaft+rod+piston weights are balanced from the factory, with no external balancing done by the flywheel or front pulley, I believe that if you change anything - pistons and rods especially - that the entire assembly needs to be re-balanced to survive higher revs. Just saying....
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Originally Posted by CMax03
(Post 8429931)
That's correct.....sending in your front pulley and flywheel with it is still a good ideal! I did my VG30E like this and It rev so freaking fast now it's crazy!:laugh:
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2 Attachment(s)
Here I just finished adjusting valvelash-so I bolted in cams and attached rear timing cover-The HR cams appear to be timed the same as the DE cams! I just need some cam spacers now!
Attachment 50151 Attachment 50152 |
Don't forget to clean your mating surfaces thoroughly.....I still see old RTV on the inner timing cover....I clean then install parts then wipe down agan with MEK b4 appling RTV good luck with your build!
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Originally Posted by CMax03
(Post 8455710)
Don't forget to clean your mating surfaces thoroughly.....I still see old RTV on the inner timing cover....I clean then install parts then wipe down agan with MEK b4 appling RTV good luck with your build!
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BTW-Will I be ok if just using my 99 ecu with this setup, I understand it wont be optimally tuned but can I use it just to get around? I searched and searched and cannot find much info on how much the HR cams' timing need advanced or if they really are pnp? I really hope theyre pnp..
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Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8456485)
BTW-Will I be ok if just using my 99 ecu with this setup, I understand it wont be optimally tuned but can I use it just to get around? I searched and searched and cannot find much info on how much the HR cams' timing need advanced or if they really are pnp? I really hope theyre pnp..
If it starts good, but dont drive it until its tuned if you just did cams yea you could risk it because OEM cams are not aggressive enough to cause much of any problems. But those cams PLUS raising the compression.....yea hold off on driving unless its like 10mins to get tuned even then i would rather tow my car than drive it. |
Originally Posted by Crusher103
(Post 8456563)
No.
If it starts good, but dont drive it until its tuned if you just did cams yea you could risk it because OEM cams are not aggressive enough to cause much of any problems. But those cams PLUS raising the compression.....yea hold off on driving unless its like 10mins to get tuned even then i would rather tow my car than drive it. |
Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8456586)
Thanks Crusher...What tuning device can you recommend? I see the EU or the vafc on ebay for good prices, but for overall beginner tuning do you have any recommendation? I'm a noob, but i am confident that I can get it right!
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Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8456586)
Thanks Crusher...What tuning device can you recommend? I see the EU or the vafc on ebay for good prices, but for overall beginner tuning do you have any recommendation? I'm a noob, but i am confident that I can get it right!
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Originally Posted by McSteve
(Post 8456726)
well from the recent developments and all i would say there is no reason not to get the haltech. also if you keep it NA i would definitely do a full swap. it's not that much more involved...
To do a full swap, I think I'd also need the HR vtc cam gears, unless the DE cam gears would work...Then I'd need HR harness so that the exhaust cams would be able to send signals along with the intake cams. I'd also need an HR outer timing cover, (I think that the de and hr inner timing cover are pretty much identical?) which has dual vtc solenoids on both intake and exhaust cams, and the harness and all the other stuff...That's a lot...or is it? It's all about the oil galleries on these covers that activate the vtc I believe, and the solenoids open/close the galleries.
Originally Posted by Crusher103
(Post 8456761)
Im not a tuning person myself but EU is your best bet. With that compression timing might have to be adjusted so a VAFC would be useless.
I still got the DE cams laying around, so without the HR cams, then you think I'd be OK without EU? of course then I'd need to re-adjust valve lash for the DE cams which was a TOTAL PITA... Also, when I got the motor, the DE cams did not have spacers, which knocks the timing chain out of square by about 1/8" or so with the crank sprocket...and the guy I bought it from didn't seem to have any issues...do I really need the spacers? The spacers are what's halting me atm.. Anyone recommend a perfect power smt7 or smt8? |
Originally Posted by Maximeltman
(Post 8456902)
Mcsteve-I would get the Haltech if this wasn't a hybrid-there's no vtc with this hybrid setup, and the Haltech would be like $2200:eek:
To do a full swap, I think I'd also need the HR vtc cam gears, unless the DE cam gears would work...Then I'd need HR harness so that the exhaust cams would be able to send signals along with the intake cams. I'd also need an HR outer timing cover, (I think that the de and hr inner timing cover are pretty much identical?) which has dual vtc solenoids on both intake and exhaust cams, and the harness and all the other stuff...That's a lot...or is it? It's all about the oil galleries on these covers that activate the vtc I believe, and the solenoids open/close the galleries. I jumped into this without thinking about engine management after I was done building it...:o LOL I still got the DE cams laying around, so without the HR cams, then you think I'd be OK without EU? of course then I'd need to re-adjust valve lash for the DE cams which was a TOTAL PITA... Also, when I got the motor, the DE cams did not have spacers, which knocks the timing chain out of square by about 1/8" or so with the crank sprocket...and the guy I bought it from didn't seem to have any issues...do I really need the spacers? The spacers are what's halting me atm.. Anyone recommend a perfect power smt7 or smt8? |
Originally Posted by MaxPR0908
(Post 8457181)
If you are using 3.0l timing you will need the cam spacers.. Stephen max is the man..
I had a chance to buy a perfect power smt7 a week or so ago for only $40 but it fell through. What kind of damage will running the engine without further engine management cause? The valves don't hit the pistons... |
Just use those HR cams dont pull them for the sake of a tuning issue that can be fixed. And in anycase that compression mean no matter what cams you put in there its going to be effy to drive the car until its tuned.
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