Custom Intake Manifold and 87mm Throttle Body
07-02-2012, 11:02 PM
#1
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Custom Intake Manifold and 87mm Throttle Body
I am working on a custom intake manifold (with a TON of help from a fellow engineer and friend) that is a rip-off of spark's design. Basically, it will consist of a butchered stock 02 UIM with a custom plenum. I will use a 3.5" aluminum bend with 3.5" velocity stack on the plenum (to replace the elbow) as well as a 3.5" MAF/Intake Pipe/Velocity Stack/Filter.
I also plan on running it with a GM 87mm DBW throttle body. This will give me a straight 3.5" intake path.
Some people on the Titan and 350z forums have been able to run 87mm TB's (like three people total) but the information is very scarce. Some people say that you need UPREV so that you can reflash the ECU to run the larger TB, but I do not believe that BS.
A couple of guys called "PGM" made a 90mm TB kit for the Titan a while back that used the Corvette TB and DID NOT require the use of UPREV; there was a small "conversion" box that was in line with the harness. This proves to me that it can be done. I can't see there being anything too complex inside that little 1" square box. Maybe an op-amp altering the value of the TPS signal...who knows.
Both the stock Nissan and the GM 87mm throttle bodies are made by Hitachi and use the exact same sensor and servo configuration.
One guy ran the 87mm GM tb on his 350z before with NO conversion box and NO reflash. It worked but he said there were "idle surge" problems. I believe that this can be corrected by following the idle relearn TSB procedure. I still need to do some research on how the TB motor is controlled (if the ECU uses feedback from the TPS or if the stepper motor is controlled directly).
We shall see. I will make it work and report back what I did (after I finish the manifold of course).
As far as pics:
The throttle body
Cutting the stock manifold
Cutting the stock manifold (again)
Final Product (I have a lot of work to do
)
I will update this thread as I make progress.
I also plan on running it with a GM 87mm DBW throttle body. This will give me a straight 3.5" intake path.
Some people on the Titan and 350z forums have been able to run 87mm TB's (like three people total) but the information is very scarce. Some people say that you need UPREV so that you can reflash the ECU to run the larger TB, but I do not believe that BS.
A couple of guys called "PGM" made a 90mm TB kit for the Titan a while back that used the Corvette TB and DID NOT require the use of UPREV; there was a small "conversion" box that was in line with the harness. This proves to me that it can be done. I can't see there being anything too complex inside that little 1" square box. Maybe an op-amp altering the value of the TPS signal...who knows.
Both the stock Nissan and the GM 87mm throttle bodies are made by Hitachi and use the exact same sensor and servo configuration.
One guy ran the 87mm GM tb on his 350z before with NO conversion box and NO reflash. It worked but he said there were "idle surge" problems. I believe that this can be corrected by following the idle relearn TSB procedure. I still need to do some research on how the TB motor is controlled (if the ECU uses feedback from the TPS or if the stepper motor is controlled directly).
We shall see. I will make it work and report back what I did (after I finish the manifold of course).
As far as pics:
The throttle body
Cutting the stock manifold
Cutting the stock manifold (again)
Final Product (I have a lot of work to do
)I will update this thread as I make progress.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 07-02-2012 at 11:11 PM.
07-03-2012, 04:43 AM
#4
Good stuff Unklejoe I am planning somethng similar for my new G setup. I am considering the 87 or 90mm LS7 TB and 4" maf and intake tube. The Titan guys have shown some good results and definately a worthwhile project. Mine will be delayed until I get to Fl this winter to buy the parts for this and all the other mods I have planned.
Good luck you are definitely on the right route. Next spring when I get my sheit together I will have the use of a free dyno whenever I want so I plan on proving what this mod is capable of. My Son works part time for a shop and I am in good with the owner too. They are closed on Sat and Sun when my Son works there doing photo and video work for their website so no competition for the use of the dyno.
PS Have you a connector for the tb, I don't believe its the same as the Maxima?
Good luck you are definitely on the right route. Next spring when I get my sheit together I will have the use of a free dyno whenever I want so I plan on proving what this mod is capable of. My Son works part time for a shop and I am in good with the owner too. They are closed on Sat and Sun when my Son works there doing photo and video work for their website so no competition for the use of the dyno.
PS Have you a connector for the tb, I don't believe its the same as the Maxima?
Last edited by Jime; 07-03-2012 at 04:46 AM.
07-03-2012, 06:49 AM
#5
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Good stuff Unklejoe I am planning somethng similar for my new G setup. I am considering the 87 or 90mm LS7 TB and 4" maf and intake tube. The Titan guys have shown some good results and definately a worthwhile project. Mine will be delayed until I get to Fl this winter to buy the parts for this and all the other mods I have planned.
Good luck you are definitely on the right route. Next spring when I get my sheit together I will have the use of a free dyno whenever I want so I plan on proving what this mod is capable of. My Son works part time for a shop and I am in good with the owner too. They are closed on Sat and Sun when my Son works there doing photo and video work for their website so no competition for the use of the dyno.
PS Have you a connector for the tb, I don't believe its the same as the Maxima?
Good luck you are definitely on the right route. Next spring when I get my sheit together I will have the use of a free dyno whenever I want so I plan on proving what this mod is capable of. My Son works part time for a shop and I am in good with the owner too. They are closed on Sat and Sun when my Son works there doing photo and video work for their website so no competition for the use of the dyno.
PS Have you a connector for the tb, I don't believe its the same as the Maxima?
I expect some decent gains from this throttle body. The only thing I'm worried about is the throttle being too "touchy" but the 350z HR's have dual 60mm throttle bodies which ends up being almost the same area and they seem to have no problem with throttle precision.
07-03-2012, 06:38 PM
#7
IIRC , with working with Jenvey new ITBs for the Ford V8
the DBW is controlled by PWM ,
I also read on the Z forums that they re-pin two wires to make this work but also having idle issues.
good luck with this project ,you have a cleaner cut than what we did years ago
Looking forward on the outcome !!
EDIT : just notice the band saw your using ! PIMP cut !
the DBW is controlled by PWM ,
I also read on the Z forums that they re-pin two wires to make this work but also having idle issues.
good luck with this project ,you have a cleaner cut than what we did years ago
Looking forward on the outcome !!
EDIT : just notice the band saw your using ! PIMP cut !
07-03-2012, 09:12 PM
#8
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IIRC , with working with Jenvey new ITBs for the Ford V8
the DBW is controlled by PWM ,
I also read on the Z forums that they re-pin two wires to make this work but also having idle issues.
good luck with this project ,you have a cleaner cut than what we did years ago
Looking forward on the outcome !!
EDIT : just notice the band saw your using ! PIMP cut !
the DBW is controlled by PWM ,
I also read on the Z forums that they re-pin two wires to make this work but also having idle issues.
good luck with this project ,you have a cleaner cut than what we did years ago
Looking forward on the outcome !!
EDIT : just notice the band saw your using ! PIMP cut !
How well did that manifold work out for you?
07-10-2012, 04:41 AM
#12
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sorry ive been really busy with work lately
update:
the sheet metal, aluminum velocity stack, 3.5" aluminum bend, and throttle body all came in the mail.
the next step from here is to start fabricating the actual plenum and making the flange for the throttle body.
this throttle body looks HUGE compared to the stock one
update:
the sheet metal, aluminum velocity stack, 3.5" aluminum bend, and throttle body all came in the mail.
the next step from here is to start fabricating the actual plenum and making the flange for the throttle body.
this throttle body looks HUGE compared to the stock one
07-15-2012, 08:12 AM
#16
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Small Update Started polishing the ports on the stock manifold and removing some excess material...
Also, here's a pic of the parts (minus the sheet metal which was in the other room)
Also, here's a pic of the parts (minus the sheet metal which was in the other room)
08-21-2012, 08:50 AM
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Made significant progress. Pics to come later.
On a side note, something that pissed me off was the PGM guy's description of their PGM90 throttle body (on the Titan forum).
Here's the list of parts they include in their kit:
- a used GM 90mm TB modified to speak Japanese
- a new plug and play harness adapted to fit the parts
- a new aluminum adapter plate, TB spacer, Intercooler
- a new set of bolts to mount it
"We will be glad to answer your questions but please don't ask us how we did it as we are not going to say."
and that **** cost like $1000 and you supply your own TB!
WHAT THE *** DO THEY MEAN BY "modified to speak Japanese"?
I am willing to bet my ********* that they didn't do **** to mod the TB and they were just charging a stack for a fancy adapter plate and wiring harness...
Don't worry. If I figure out how to make this work (which I will), I will post it EVERYWHERE for free so 350z, Titan, and who ever else can benefit from it.
On a side note, something that pissed me off was the PGM guy's description of their PGM90 throttle body (on the Titan forum).
Here's the list of parts they include in their kit:
- a used GM 90mm TB modified to speak Japanese
- a new plug and play harness adapted to fit the parts
- a new aluminum adapter plate, TB spacer, Intercooler
- a new set of bolts to mount it
"We will be glad to answer your questions but please don't ask us how we did it as we are not going to say."
and that **** cost like $1000 and you supply your own TB!
WHAT THE *** DO THEY MEAN BY "modified to speak Japanese"?
I am willing to bet my ********* that they didn't do **** to mod the TB and they were just charging a stack for a fancy adapter plate and wiring harness...
Don't worry. If I figure out how to make this work (which I will), I will post it EVERYWHERE for free so 350z, Titan, and who ever else can benefit from it.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 08-21-2012 at 08:58 AM.
08-21-2012, 03:08 PM
#23
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You all get the idea? I need to test fit it and make sure the top of the triangle clears the firewall. Might have to reduce the angle.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 08-21-2012 at 03:10 PM.
08-23-2012, 09:47 AM
#24
09-11-2012, 10:10 PM
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Manifold is done!
I have to give credit to my friends Sal and Craig. Sal designed the pieces in CAD software and cut them on the water jet at my school and Craig welded the whole thing together. Without them, this wouldn't have been possible.
Here are the pics of the final product:
I need to relocate my battery back to my trunk to fit the filter. I also need to order some fittings and one more 3.5" silicone coupler. I can't wait to tune this *****!
As far as making the big *** throttle body idle, I have a theory. I have reduced the size of my PCV hose to 1/4". The thought here is that this will reduce the amount of airflow that the intake is pulling in via the PCV system under vacuum (idle). This will give the illusion of a smaller throttle body at idle, as less air is flowing "around" the throttle body, according to the ECU. We will see...
I have to give credit to my friends Sal and Craig. Sal designed the pieces in CAD software and cut them on the water jet at my school and Craig welded the whole thing together. Without them, this wouldn't have been possible.
Here are the pics of the final product:
I need to relocate my battery back to my trunk to fit the filter. I also need to order some fittings and one more 3.5" silicone coupler. I can't wait to tune this *****!
As far as making the big *** throttle body idle, I have a theory. I have reduced the size of my PCV hose to 1/4". The thought here is that this will reduce the amount of airflow that the intake is pulling in via the PCV system under vacuum (idle). This will give the illusion of a smaller throttle body at idle, as less air is flowing "around" the throttle body, according to the ECU. We will see...
Last edited by Unklejoe; 09-12-2012 at 12:05 AM.
09-16-2012, 09:07 AM
#36
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I'll dyno it on the next dyno day at a local shop. I wish I could have made a more elegant design, but this was the best I could do. There are a lot of manifolds that are square like this so I don't think it will be too bad. Most of the gains I'm expecting come from the huge plenum (8+ liters) and huge TB.
09-16-2012, 05:19 PM
#38
Will be interesting to see a dyno, please go to a dynojet!
You are tuning on EMU right? with headers and 3" catback, along with 3.5 intake pipe. and good tuning this should be 280whp+
If you can get a 4" intake pipe setup and test it on the dyno too !!!!
You are tuning on EMU right? with headers and 3" catback, along with 3.5 intake pipe. and good tuning this should be 280whp+
If you can get a 4" intake pipe setup and test it on the dyno too !!!!
09-26-2012, 02:04 PM
#39
4" 4" 4" forget that 3.5" ISH!!!! You see Surrat gained all through rpm with 4" intake!!! Do it big boy style!!!
09-26-2012, 05:48 PM
#40
really need to see a older VQ dyno of 3.5 intake and 4" intake, its probably going to be different then mine. My HR heads and smaller intake valves and evt really change the setup from older vq's
Lets see a comparison with a older VQ