AutoX classing/tech gurus...
03-20-2007, 09:52 AM
#1
Fire in the hole!
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AutoX classing/tech gurus...
A buddy and I have been debating back and forth about what class I'm going to be in for this season. And since I'll be ordering letters and numbers soon, I'd kinda like to know exactly what I *NEED* to be ordering.
I *think* the majority of the guys on Maxima.org that race competitively, race in E-Prepared, due to similar mods.
Car: 1999 Nissan Maxima
Engine: VQ30DE, 3.0L V6
Trans: 5Spd Manual
Suspension: KSport Coilovers, BlehmCo Stage 2 Lower Tie Bar/Front Subframe Connector, Addco Rear Swaybar, Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars
***Brakes: Brembo Sport Slotted Rotors, front and rear, Hawk HP+ pads (front), HPS pads (rear), Technafit Braided Stainless Brakelines
***Wheels/Tires: 16x8 Nissan 300ZX TT wheels, 245/40-16 Toyo RA-1's
Exhaust: XS Power Y-pipe, Random Technologies Hi-Flow Cat, Apexi WS2 Catback Exhaust
Weight Redux: Full trunk cleanout, no spare, no carpet, no side panels; Back seat removal, top and bottom
***= Haven't decided if I'm going to make the plunge into a 300ZXTT 4pot caliper/Mustang Cobra 13" Slotted Rotor combo yet... if so, then the wheels and tires will change, as I can't run anything smaller than 17x8.5 with a +35 offset if I do so.
If I do the aforementioned setup (almost all of which is installed on the car already), I'm pretty much guaranteed a spot in EP, right? If I go up to the BBK, is that gonna bump me up even more?
--Evan
I *think* the majority of the guys on Maxima.org that race competitively, race in E-Prepared, due to similar mods.
Car: 1999 Nissan Maxima
Engine: VQ30DE, 3.0L V6
Trans: 5Spd Manual
Suspension: KSport Coilovers, BlehmCo Stage 2 Lower Tie Bar/Front Subframe Connector, Addco Rear Swaybar, Front and Rear Strut Tower Bars
***Brakes: Brembo Sport Slotted Rotors, front and rear, Hawk HP+ pads (front), HPS pads (rear), Technafit Braided Stainless Brakelines
***Wheels/Tires: 16x8 Nissan 300ZX TT wheels, 245/40-16 Toyo RA-1's
Exhaust: XS Power Y-pipe, Random Technologies Hi-Flow Cat, Apexi WS2 Catback Exhaust
Weight Redux: Full trunk cleanout, no spare, no carpet, no side panels; Back seat removal, top and bottom
***= Haven't decided if I'm going to make the plunge into a 300ZXTT 4pot caliper/Mustang Cobra 13" Slotted Rotor combo yet... if so, then the wheels and tires will change, as I can't run anything smaller than 17x8.5 with a +35 offset if I do so.
If I do the aforementioned setup (almost all of which is installed on the car already), I'm pretty much guaranteed a spot in EP, right? If I go up to the BBK, is that gonna bump me up even more?
--Evan
03-20-2007, 02:55 PM
#2
im beginning to doubt the maximas eligeability in EP, this formula from the SCCA rulebook seems to indicate that no piston engines over 2.2L are allowed in EP:
"Weight Formulas:
Piston Engines
1.00 x displacement (cc)
Rotary Engines
0.85 x listed displacement (cc)
Regardless of the weight formulas above no car may weigh less than 1350
lb. or be required to weigh more than 2200 lb prior to addition of weight
penalties defined herein and in Section 17."
Although there is also this line which seems to include the maxima:
"Datsun/Nissan
all sedans NOC"
anyway i doubt anyone would care if you ran EP since there are rarely any other cars in that class. but you should run street mod or dsp if your region will allow you to so you have more competitors
"Weight Formulas:
Piston Engines
1.00 x displacement (cc)
Rotary Engines
0.85 x listed displacement (cc)
Regardless of the weight formulas above no car may weigh less than 1350
lb. or be required to weigh more than 2200 lb prior to addition of weight
penalties defined herein and in Section 17."
Although there is also this line which seems to include the maxima:
"Datsun/Nissan
all sedans NOC"
anyway i doubt anyone would care if you ran EP since there are rarely any other cars in that class. but you should run street mod or dsp if your region will allow you to so you have more competitors
03-20-2007, 06:08 PM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 996
Your car sound like a "street mod" car to me.
here's a pdf file of the SCCA rule book
http://scca.org/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0...0&x=050|070&~=
here's a pdf file of the SCCA rule book
http://scca.org/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0...0&x=050|070&~=
03-20-2007, 06:39 PM
#4
Originally Posted by z32drifter
Your car sound like a "street mod" car to me.
here's a pdf file of the SCCA rule book
http://scca.org/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0...0&x=050|070&~=
here's a pdf file of the SCCA rule book
http://scca.org/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0...0&x=050|070&~=
I don't think Stage 2 LTB or SFCs are legal in SM, are they?
03-20-2007, 06:55 PM
#5
Originally Posted by gdmaxse
im beginning to doubt the maximas eligeability in EP, this formula from the SCCA rulebook seems to indicate that no piston engines over 2.2L are allowed in EP:
"Weight Formulas:
Piston Engines
1.00 x displacement (cc)
Rotary Engines
0.85 x listed displacement (cc)
Regardless of the weight formulas above no car may weigh less than 1350
lb. or be required to weigh more than 2200 lb prior to addition of weight
penalties defined herein and in Section 17."
Although there is also this line which seems to include the maxima:
"Datsun/Nissan
all sedans NOC"
anyway i doubt anyone would care if you ran EP since there are rarely any other cars in that class. but you should run street mod or dsp if your region will allow you to so you have more competitors
"Weight Formulas:
Piston Engines
1.00 x displacement (cc)
Rotary Engines
0.85 x listed displacement (cc)
Regardless of the weight formulas above no car may weigh less than 1350
lb. or be required to weigh more than 2200 lb prior to addition of weight
penalties defined herein and in Section 17."
Although there is also this line which seems to include the maxima:
"Datsun/Nissan
all sedans NOC"
anyway i doubt anyone would care if you ran EP since there are rarely any other cars in that class. but you should run street mod or dsp if your region will allow you to so you have more competitors
I can't find any other Prepared category that would fit the maxima, assuming a stage2 LTB and r-comps (assuming, I said
), aside for EP. I don't think your reading of 2.2L being the maximum for EP is correct anyhow, since some of the cars specifically listed as EP have engines in excess of 2.2L (the '06 Jetta, for example, which has a 2.5, and a number of BMWs with over 2.2L, and "all non-turbo Audi sedans 3.0L and under).....
maxima = g stock, dsp, and ep....
03-20-2007, 08:17 PM
#7
Originally Posted by gdmaxse
R-comps are allowed in SM, and yeah the rulebook seems to contradict itself on what is allowed in EP
of course they are...don't know what I was thinking.
as to the weight...I think it is saying that the calculations 1.00 x are only applicable to cars under 2200lbs. Essentially that they know big 3200lb boats don't have a chance in hell anyhow against an ACTUAL fully-prepped EP sportscar (which we haven't run into yet in Philly region).....But SCCA can't just come out and say things the simplest way possible. They have to write it like it is the fine print on your credit card....
SCCA rulebook contradict itself? NO WAY! NEVER!
03-20-2007, 11:40 PM
#8
Fire in the hole!
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I was talking to a few of the guys from the Chicago Region SCCA, and they said, verbatim, "you better do as much weight reduction as you can... the BUILT civics are gonna eat you alive. Most of them have ZERO interior, 300+ hp, weigh less than 2100 lbs., and all run 245 or wider tires. You're gonna be at a disadvantage, with over 3500 lbs., 200hp, half or most of your interior, and 245's. Can you fit 275's in there?" Unfortunately, no. I can't. 255 is about as wide as I can go on stock height... but since I've got almost a 2.5-3" drop all around, they don't fit. The car handles AMAZINGLY, though.
03-21-2007, 08:27 AM
#10
Fire in the hole!
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I've always said that it's the most LEGAL fun you can have in a car. Regardless if it's a stripped, caged, race rubber'd, fully built autoX monster, or a full interior'd, daily driver, family sedan on some 60K-mile a/s tires. Now I've found the happy median with a semi-stripped, semi-built autoX mini-monster, daily driven family sedan with some 40K-mile a/s tires. 
Depending on when my credit card gets here, I'll be buying race rubber soon. I gotta at least take FULL advantage of coilovers.
Depending on when my credit card gets here, I'll be buying race rubber soon. I gotta at least take FULL advantage of coilovers.
03-21-2007, 08:38 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Chefasaurus
I was talking to a few of the guys from the Chicago Region SCCA, and they said, verbatim, "you better do as much weight reduction as you can... the BUILT civics are gonna eat you alive. Most of them have ZERO interior, 300+ hp, weigh less than 2100 lbs., and all run 245 or wider tires. You're gonna be at a disadvantage, with over 3500 lbs., 200hp, half or most of your interior, and 245's. Can you fit 275's in there?" Unfortunately, no. I can't. 255 is about as wide as I can go on stock height... but since I've got almost a 2.5-3" drop all around, they don't fit. The car handles AMAZINGLY, though.
well, besides the non-DSP-legal stage 2 LTB...I did better in SM against all the STIs than I did against the '92 Civic hatchbacks in DSP....
03-21-2007, 08:35 PM
#12
Fire in the hole!
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so SM then? I thought you have to stay on street tires for SM, though?
I'm not looking to buy the whole alphabet for letters.. just the ones I need.
187 is my number (the police code for homicide... because I am teh c0ne killAr!) and _(E or S) _(P or M) N L (I have a lady friend who will be co-driving with me this year... it's her first time of competitive driving).
I'm not looking to buy the whole alphabet for letters.. just the ones I need.
187 is my number (the police code for homicide... because I am teh c0ne killAr!) and _(E or S) _(P or M) N L (I have a lady friend who will be co-driving with me this year... it's her first time of competitive driving).
03-22-2007, 06:14 AM
#13
No SM allows race rubber. Everything is race rubber except the ST(s,x,u) classes and local street tire versions of the other classes. Here's what you're facing in Chicago
DSP - assuming nobody cares about the LTB; light competition; Ford Focus with a capable driver and a Del Sol
SM - also assuming the LTB is ok - tough competition against a seasoned Neon driver and at least one M3. Ocassional Cheeseheads from the North really make it a brutal class.
EP - least competition locally; single type R running last year
DSP - assuming nobody cares about the LTB; light competition; Ford Focus with a capable driver and a Del Sol
SM - also assuming the LTB is ok - tough competition against a seasoned Neon driver and at least one M3. Ocassional Cheeseheads from the North really make it a brutal class.
EP - least competition locally; single type R running last year
03-22-2007, 04:55 PM
#16
From this month's FasTrack:
For SP:
"15.2.E.5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted.
Connections to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels via bolts are allowed and count as the third
point of attachment. No alteration to the OE components is permitted."
So that says to me that the LTB is even legal in street prepped because it is being attached to factory mounting locations.
For SP:
"15.2.E.5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted.
Connections to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels via bolts are allowed and count as the third
point of attachment. No alteration to the OE components is permitted."
So that says to me that the LTB is even legal in street prepped because it is being attached to factory mounting locations.
03-22-2007, 06:02 PM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by irish44j
\
I don't think Stage 2 LTB or SFCs are legal in SM, are they?
I don't think Stage 2 LTB or SFCs are legal in SM, are they?
BTW you can stuff 275s under a A32, they stick out a little...lol
03-22-2007, 06:33 PM
#18
Originally Posted by z32drifter
BTW you can stuff 275s under a A32, they stick out a little...lol
03-23-2007, 08:24 PM
#21
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by BEJAY1
Those are 275's? They don't look nearly that wide. What about lock to lock rubbing w/o spacers?
255/40/17s stuck out but never hit in the front
275s stick out just a little more
I don't think you can stuff them under the car at -3" I'm over -2" on Stechs..... well with enough neg camber... that's what the 240 guys would say.
03-23-2007, 09:36 PM
#22
I was wondering about the 255/40/17s and how much they stick out. How many mm do they stick out past the front stock fenders? Do you think there is any chance of getting them to sit flush with the fenders and not scrub the suspension?
Reason I ask is that the racing car club im looking into for time trials has some pretty tight rules on modifications. Some very simple mods bump me into a higher class. If your tires stick out past the stock fenders or using fender flares bumps you into Prepared. In Prepared I would be running against Formula Fords and fully race prepped turbo 911s. It would also require me to have a minimum 6 point cage and a host of other safety equipment.
But as long as the tires are inside the stock fenders I can run any type of DOT approved tire, R compounds included. Rolling of stock fenders is allowed provided it retains it's "stock outer appearence". The 255s have alot more choices in R compound than the other size im looking at which is 245/40/17. From what I can tell the 245s should fit in the stock fenders. Rim size is going to be 17 x 9 with a +35~+40 offset for either tire.
Also the penality for my engine swap will put me in Street Prepared which requires a 4 point roll bar, 5 point racing harness, and a single layer Nomex racing suit.
Gotta love the rules of racing...
Reason I ask is that the racing car club im looking into for time trials has some pretty tight rules on modifications. Some very simple mods bump me into a higher class. If your tires stick out past the stock fenders or using fender flares bumps you into Prepared. In Prepared I would be running against Formula Fords and fully race prepped turbo 911s. It would also require me to have a minimum 6 point cage and a host of other safety equipment.
But as long as the tires are inside the stock fenders I can run any type of DOT approved tire, R compounds included. Rolling of stock fenders is allowed provided it retains it's "stock outer appearence". The 255s have alot more choices in R compound than the other size im looking at which is 245/40/17. From what I can tell the 245s should fit in the stock fenders. Rim size is going to be 17 x 9 with a +35~+40 offset for either tire.
Also the penality for my engine swap will put me in Street Prepared which requires a 4 point roll bar, 5 point racing harness, and a single layer Nomex racing suit.
Gotta love the rules of racing...
03-24-2007, 05:46 AM
#23
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 996
A 17x9 +35 will stick out in the front.....it's perfect for the rear, nice and flush looking. I've wanted to test fit a 17x9 +40 but have not had the chance. I have run a 17x8.5 +40 with a 255/40/17 with no issues. A 9 +40 I think will be just over the edge of the fender, camber could make a diff. The pic in the post above with the 255/40/17s is on the 17x9 +34s so you can see the tire is out 5-7mm I would guess. You can see the 8.5 +40 is very close to flush the +40 would come out 6mm more, it's going to be close. In theory the tire should stay in the same place just grow 6mm inside and out I'm afraid that will pull it out from under the fender. I wish I had a top down shot of the 8.5 +40s.
03-24-2007, 09:12 AM
#24
Originally Posted by z32drifter
A 17x9 +35 will stick out in the front.....it's perfect for the rear, nice and flush looking. I've wanted to test fit a 17x9 +40 but have not had the chance. I have run a 17x8.5 +40 with a 255/40/17 with no issues. A 9 +40 I think will be just over the edge of the fender, camber could make a diff. The pic in the post above with the 255/40/17s is on the 17x9 +34s so you can see the tire is out 5-7mm I would guess. You can see the 8.5 +40 is very close to flush the +40 would come out 6mm more, it's going to be close. In theory the tire should stay in the same place just grow 6mm inside and out I'm afraid that will pull it out from under the fender. I wish I had a top down shot of the 8.5 +40s.
03-26-2007, 05:14 AM
#26
if i had the money i would get 15X10" diamond racing wheels (around $70 each) and 275/35/15 Hoosier A6 tires (around $270 each). the tires should be short enough to not hit the fenders even tho they will stick out a couple inches
03-26-2007, 06:48 PM
#27
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by Chefasaurus
will 245's fit on stock 16" SE 5-spokes?
what about going DOWN to 15" wheels, but go wide on them?
The reason I ask, is because I can get both pretty cheap.
what about going DOWN to 15" wheels, but go wide on them?
The reason I ask, is because I can get both pretty cheap.
03-26-2007, 07:06 PM
#28
Originally Posted by gdmaxse
if i had the money i would get 15X10" diamond racing wheels (around $70 each) and 275/35/15 Hoosier A6 tires (around $270 each). the tires should be short enough to not hit the fenders even tho they will stick out a couple inches
03-26-2007, 07:43 PM
#29
Originally Posted by gdmaxse
if i had the money i would get 15X10" diamond racing wheels (around $70 each) and 275/35/15 Hoosier A6 tires (around $270 each). the tires should be short enough to not hit the fenders even tho they will stick out a couple inches
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