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High/Low HID's
Does anyone know anything intresting or have tried the HID's with the high/low beam. I'm talking about the ones that have a flap on bulb that opens when you put your high beams on. I am thinking in buying these, but the idea of a mechanical moving part in such a hot area makes me think twice.
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I believe I can help you out here. My name is Richard and I am in the business of performance lighting. And I feel the same way about solenoid based anything for a car. As if the car doesn’t have enough moving parts. For that same reason, we do not carry that product. I am not going to throw a sales pitch at you. But just the basics of what you want.
We do have hi/lo’s that are electronically based. The standard HID’s run at 35watts. So does our hi/lo lizzard lights. But the way the high end works is by pumping up the wattage to 50 watts. NO MOVING parts! But this came at a price, is it well worth it? The solenoid based lights have warrantee’s from 6 months to a coupe I’ve seen for 2 years, which isn’t bad. But the Lizzard lights are covered, no questions asked for 4 years. ALL German engineered system using Philips bulb. If you like I can go into detail, (sales pitch) about the Lights, but I didn’t want to fill this forum/topic with spam. But to let you in on our quality of work, check us out on in Popular Hot Rodding December ’02 and feb’02. we are the providers to Mark on Camaro. Or Horse Power TV, or Hot Rod Magazine. To give you some references on how we stand on quality. Let me know if you have anymore questions. richard |
Originally posted by iguanam We do have hi/lo’s that are electronically based. The standard HID’s run at 35watts. So does our hi/lo lizzard lights. But the way the high end works is by pumping up the wattage to 50 watts. NO MOVING parts! But this came at a price, is it well worth it? The solenoid based lights have warrantee’s from 6 months to a coupe I’ve seen for 2 years, which isn’t bad. But the Lizzard lights are covered, no questions asked for 4 years. ALL German engineered system using Philips bulb. richard (low beam)on H4 applications there's a shield...it's there to give u that nice clean cut off (line where light stops on the horizontal plane)and not blind oncoming drivers. (high bean) there's another bulb filiment in there that lights up and it's unshielded..gives u that (i see really bright down the rd effect)...this also blinds oncoming drivers. what richard is saying (if i understand his technology on these bulbs)... you're taking HIDs and to run highbeam you're going to increase the voltage from the ballast to the bulb? what does that give u? if the H4 has a properly shielded low beam then you just get a REALLY bright low beam..does nothing for you since there's a shield there. you really can't see that much further down the road. now if there's no shield then you're blinding drivers 24/7 and with high beam you're blinding drivers even more. since there's "no moving parts" i find that very very difficult to believe you have decent lighting in both high AND low beams. |
just an fyi Richard-- you typed in your website incorrectly on your profile.
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Originally posted by DanNY a little background... (low beam)on H4 applications there's a shield...it's there to give u that nice clean cut off (line where light stops on the horizontal plane)and not blind oncoming drivers. (high bean) there's another bulb filiment in there that lights up and it's unshielded..gives u that (i see really bright down the rd effect)...this also blinds oncoming drivers. what richard is saying (if i understand his technology on these bulbs)... you're taking HIDs and to run highbeam you're going to increase the voltage from the ballast to the bulb? what does that give u? if the H4 has a properly shielded low beam then you just get a REALLY bright low beam..does nothing for you since there's a shield there. you really can't see that much further down the road. now if there's no shield then you're blinding drivers 24/7 and with high beam you're blinding drivers even more. since there's "no moving parts" i find that very very difficult to believe you have decent lighting in both high AND low beams. i don't mean to buttt in but i haven't seen a hi/lo hid kit that has really worked. the kit that uses the shield that moves up & down stops working after a few months, so as the kit that goes in & out. i even saw a hid kit that uses 2 hid bulbs in each housing, to much money & to hard to install. i would tell you to wait a few more months to see if anything else comes out. |
Originally posted by 97GLES 00SEinMA i don't mean to buttt in but i haven't seen a hi/lo hid kit that has really worked. the kit that uses the shield that moves up & down stops working after a few months, so as the kit that goes in & out. i even saw a hid kit that uses 2 hid bulbs in each housing, to much money & to hard to install. i would tell you to wait a few more months to see if anything else comes out. |
Originally posted by DanNY quoted the wrong guy freddie..:laugh: |
That is a very fair argument and I can only respond with this.
In a standard quad projector beam set up ( 9005/6). The high beam is not only effected by the parabolic angle but also the wattage given to that bulb. So, considering the effect, moving the bulb and not increasing the wattage has the same effect. Now consider this. Grab a candle and light it up in a completely dark room. Hold that candle at any height, but higher will give you a better idea. Now the light above the candle is well lit but below is darken, so in effect the reverse for a car. Now move the candle to a 15% angle (same parabolic difference in Highs) notice how much more of the wall below the candle is lit up. Now take another candle and hold it upright and light it up. You’ll notice that the wall below the candle is lit up even brighter then when angling the candle. Is this a perfect example? No, but it is the logic behind the lights. A shroud is used for several purposes. And the least of that is the CUT line. The key purpose of the shroud is to eliminate the light that is admitted by the polarity wire that runs along side the bulb. It causes an area on your light pattern to light up very yellow. This yellow is generally located in the center of the pattern. You’ll find that halogen bulbs that are not shrouded in the center will produce a yellow circle in the center, on the pattern. Now the shroud DOES block the light pattern from hitting the eyes, but it only blocks DIRECT view of the bulb. Meaning, it generally shrouds the area above the bulb. This blocks the parabolic, direct view of the bulb itself. The key factor in avoiding lights in the eye is the Angle of the mount. Older vintage cars have screws that control the angle. Now days it’s all in the mold. But I’m sure we’ve all seen hid lights in our rear view and on coming traffic. There is a thin line with HIDs. Offensively bright and just simply bright. You win the argument for the angle vs effect over my wattage vs effect. But you lose several things with the moving (solenoid) hi/lo. The high/lo signaling- where one flashes high to low to signal people ahead of you. You lose that with the solenoid, the movement from high to low is ineffective. Moving parts is just asking for issues. Bust the bulb, then you’ll have to get a motor for it also. If Lizzard Hi/Lo’s require a replacement, free if with in the 4years. Size of the kit in whole is larger for the solenoid. Solenoid is only good for H4 where as hi/lo’s will fit any car. Lizzard high/lows will come to custom if your car/truck/. We are working on all the models for bikes and have a line of hid’s for airplanes. That is our reasons why we do not carry the solenoid based hi/lows. Our bench test of switching hi to lo for 3 months on both units. The solenoid based lights began to “stick” after one month of switching (straight, all day long, 24/7). After 5 months, one of the two solenoid refused to move with out some engineers handling. The electronic based lights continue to work with out complications So I say the different lights full fill the needs at a different priority. So it depends on what the driver finds more important. richard |
Originally posted by DanNY quoted the wrong guy freddie..:laugh: i don't understand, check out the first post. :confused: |
Originally posted by iguanam That is a very fair argument and I can only respond with this. In a standard quad projector beam set up ( 9005/6). The high beam is not only effected by the parabolic angle but also the wattage given to that bulb. So, considering the effect, moving the bulb and not increasing the wattage has the same effect. Now consider this. Grab a candle and light it up in a completely dark room. Hold that candle at any height, but higher will give you a better idea. Now the light above the candle is well lit but below is darken, so in effect the reverse for a car. Now move the candle to a 15% angle (same parabolic difference in Highs) notice how much more of the wall below the candle is lit up. Now take another candle and hold it upright and light it up. You’ll notice that the wall below the candle is lit up even brighter then when angling the candle. Is this a perfect example? No, but it is the logic behind the lights. also you mentioned that what you're going to do is "pump the wattage up"..i'm assuming that you're using the same bulb as low beam and increasing the power to it. unless you're talking about using a separate HID tube for high beam..that's a whole another discussion and problems w/ that. A shroud is used for several purposes. And the least of that is the CUT line. The key purpose of the shroud is to eliminate the light that is admitted by the polarity wire that runs along side the bulb. It causes an area on your light pattern to light up very yellow. This yellow is generally located in the center of the pattern. You’ll find that halogen bulbs that are not shrouded in the center will produce a yellow circle in the center, on the pattern. Now the shroud DOES block the light pattern from hitting the eyes, but it only blocks DIRECT view of the bulb. Meaning, it generally shrouds the area above the bulb. This blocks the parabolic, direct view of the bulb itself. The key factor in avoiding lights in the eye is the Angle of the mount. Older vintage cars have screws that control the angle. Now days it’s all in the mold. But I’m sure we’ve all seen hid lights in our rear view and on coming traffic. There is a thin line with HIDs. Offensively bright and just simply bright. angle of the mount has to do w/ the light...BUT if you have a unshielded light that's scattered all over the place..u can aim up and down all day long and there still will be stray light somewhere. You win the argument for the angle vs effect over my wattage vs effect. But you lose several things with the moving (solenoid) hi/lo. The high/lo signaling- where one flashes high to low to signal people ahead of you. You lose that with the solenoid, the movement from high to low is ineffective. Moving parts is just asking for issues. Bust the bulb, then you’ll have to get a motor for it also. If Lizzard Hi/Lo’s require a replacement, free if with in the 4years. Size of the kit in whole is larger for the solenoid. Solenoid is only good for H4 where as hi/lo’s will fit any car. Lizzard high/lows will come to custom if your car/truck/. We are working on all the models for bikes and have a line of hid’s for airplanes. That is our reasons why we do not carry the solenoid based hi/lows. Our bench test of switching hi to lo for 3 months on both units. The solenoid based lights began to “stick” after one month of switching (straight, all day long, 24/7). After 5 months, one of the two solenoid refused to move with out some engineers handling. The electronic based lights continue to work with out complications So I say the different lights full fill the needs at a different priority. So it depends on what the driver finds more important. richard at this point i'll reserve any further comments until i see the actual product with picture of the actual H4 bulb. Dan |
Originally posted by 97GLES DanNY i don't understand, check out the first post. :confused: |
Geeze, I didn't plan on starting a debate! lol
Thanks guys for your imputs. I want real high beams, otherwise I would simply order a normal HID setup. I guess I'm gunna pass on the HID with the moving part. |
Well see, the dipped shrouding is pending on each manufacturer. And the argument that one does not have to increase the wattage is the same argument that you do not have to place the bulb in a lower position to reflect the light higher. They are both factors of a high beam. Wattage AND location. Do we have this product? No, unless I had volume, I could not get my German manufacturer to produce such a product that will last, and <$800.
Yes it’s a single bulb element, and through the ballast we increase the wattage. But behind the idea of your focused light …with that SAME example, you place the flash light on a table and against a wall. Now Maglight comes in many sizes, you place one 3d battery flashlight near a 4d batter flashlight, and what is the difference? More coverage, and yes, more light beyond the scope of the 3d battery. Shrouding has little effect on the Cut line in a defused and even on a clear lens. The parabolic reflector is the Key to a cut line. Which is why I mention mounting of lens. Take off the shrouding if it isn’t mounted on the lens, and leave the other light source alone. You’ll notice up against a wall, that the light Hardly wonders, but that there is a spectrum of yellow, that is coming from top of the bulb, not between the two electrodes. As 97GLES has stated, the solenoid based Hi/Lo’s have only proven to be a weak product. Moving parts are a invitation for break down. I am in the works of producing a duel filament, single element bulb for the HIDs. We a running into a lot of electrical issues. And for those that are not enjoying the product knowledge debate between Danny and myself, here’s a question to ask. Does one spend money on lights that is more effective at lighting up objects based on angle but subject to breaking down. Or lights that are not quite as effective, but outlasts the solenoid based one? We (Danny and myself) have given you both the pro’s and con’s of the systems out there. But just keep in mind, how it’s 4 different kinds of solenoid based lighting, verses the only Electronically based system. See for yourself. And just don’t take my word for it. Just consider the logic. http://www.iguanamotors.com/hilo.cfm..._blue_copy.jpg |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iguanam
[B]Well see, the dipped shrouding is pending on each manufacturer. And the argument that one does not have to increase the wattage is the same argument that you do not have to place the bulb in a lower position to reflect the light higher. They are both factors of a high beam. Wattage AND location. Do we have this product? No, unless I had volume, I could not get my German manufacturer to produce such a product that will last, and <$800. Yes it’s a single bulb element, and through the ballast we increase the wattage. But behind the idea of your focused light …with that SAME example, you place the flash light on a table and against a wall. Now Maglight comes in many sizes, you place one 3d battery flashlight near a 4d batter flashlight, and what is the difference? More coverage, and yes, more light beyond the scope of the 3d battery. Shrouding has little effect on the Cut line in a defused and even on a clear lens. The parabolic reflector is the Key to a cut line. Which is why I mention mounting of lens. Take off the shrouding if it isn’t mounted on the lens, and leave the other light source alone. You’ll notice up against a wall, that the light Hardly wonders, but that there is a spectrum of yellow, that is coming from top of the bulb, not between the two electrodes. As 97GLES has stated, the solenoid based Hi/Lo’s have only proven to be a weak product. Moving parts are a invitation for break down. I am in the works of producing a duel filament, single element bulb for the HIDs. We a running into a lot of electrical issues. And for those that are not enjoying the product knowledge debate between Danny and myself, here’s a question to ask. Does one spend money on lights that is more effective at lighting up objects based on angle but subject to breaking down. Or lights that are not quite as effective, but outlasts the solenoid based one? We (Danny and myself) have given you both the pro’s and con’s of the systems out there. But just keep in mind, how it’s 4 different kinds of solenoid based lighting, verses the only Electronically based system. See for yourself. And just don’t take my word for it. Just consider the logic. ok i'm a noob at adding photos to this so here's the link instead =P http://www.iguanamotors.com/hilo.cfm |
Originally posted by 00SEinMA Geeze, I didn't plan on starting a debate! lol Thanks guys for your imputs. I want real high beams, otherwise I would simply order a normal HID setup. I guess I'm gunna pass on the HID with the moving part. |
to that flashlight thing...adding a 4D light would create a brighter light..but the light would be at the same spot as the 3D....perhaps maybe go out a little further...but still at the same focal point..no? and can't be as bright as picking up the flash light itself and aiming it farther down the road. again i'm not in fan of the moving anything in a HID bulb.
http://64.7.200.41/eze/eze5/items/ig..._blue_copy.jpg pic from iguanam's site. looks good...i'll wait for beam pattern pic before any further comments. :) educated customer is a good customer..no? |
I might have missed it on your website, but what is the color temp of these HID kits, 4000k, 6000k etc.? For 9004 if it makes a difference.
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Sup Richard. I see you beat me to it in answering this guys initial post. BTW when are you gonna get those pics of the beam pattern? Bottom line these guys wanna see results.
And for those of you who don't know, these guys are quality. Rich is a good guy he won't lie to you. Here's another link with some more pictures. Most of the information found on the site has been reiterated before. Click Click |
the focal point of the 4 d would be larger if the lens in both light source were the same.
ch13f- what would you like? we have 4k-8k And no, the replacement type would not matter. |
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