Wrightsfd

OK, so I know you might all think I am crazy to want LESS power from my car, but since I am a stupid liberal environmentalist who thinks that we need to get out of this situation of foreign oil dependence and start living like the rest of the world within our own means I have given this some thought. I am not ready to give up the Maxima since it still runs like new with 130K on the odometer but I want to pollute less, conserve resources, and maybe save some money since natural gas is dirt-cheap. Some of you will say that CNG or propane are still derived from fossil fuels and you are correct, but in the U.S. we make 95% of this from domestic sources, not from OPEC's stash and the pollution is much less while burning these fuels. That is why city busses, farm equipment, and others run on CNG. I have done some research on the "internets" and find no straight conversion kits for the Maxima but there are generic kits out there and I was wondering if any of you have experience with converting cars or trucks in the past. I know this is a somewhat popular idea in Australia, New Zealand, and some parts of Europe but relatively rare in the U.S. Chime in with any info you have but please don't post just to tell me I am an idiot or start any political discussion, I’m not here for that. Thanks.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I honestly do not think you will get much feedback on this forum..

If we had it our way, we'd be uing leaded friendly engines and leaded fuel.

Cool idea, but I'm not a liberalist, and if you don't want any politics thrown around, rephrase your post to this.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Originally in All Motor, moved to General Discussion

Iron Scimitar

iTrader: (38)

2007 there will be a hybrid Altima.

BourneJ

My maxima is converted to run on LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas); It's a sequential conversion (fuel injected) so there is almost no loss of power. 0-100km/h was tested and the result was 0.2 seconds slower on LPG than on Fuel.
Search google for "LPG" to see more detailed info.

If you'd like, i'll snap some pics for you.

I basically have a 70liter tank in my trunk and with a switch of a button I can control to drive on LPG or on fuel; the default is set in a way so when I start the car and as soon as the engine catches some temp. it switches automatically to LPG after I cross 2200rpm

- Jay

EDIT: here's a good link - http://www.boostlpg.co.uk/what_is/what_is_LPG.htm

bigEL

That's so cool. What year is your car? Was the conversion a generic kit or one made specifically for the Maxima? Did you have to go to an installer or did you do it yourself? I too have read a lot about LPG and am drawn to it not only for the reasons already mentioned above, but also because it is actually better for your engine. Compressed gaseous fuels vaporize much better than liquid fuels. Plus you won't clog your injectors, valves, or fuel filter. Not to mention your oil and rings will last longer.

The problem with conversions in the US is that there aren't many installers or kits around and they are mostly for commercial vehicles. Importing a kit and installing it yourself may be an easy work-around, but getting around the electronics may be tougher. Not sure how the ECU and sensors will respond. But knowing someone converted a Max makes this prospect much more promising.

BourneJ

My maxima was converted by an installer. It's a kit that's generic for V6 engines of 3.0l and above. There is a seperate ECU that was installed also just for the LPG, that way when there's tuning needed to be done or to check what is wrong if the car acts up, you can hook it up to a laptop and diagnose the problems.

This is too big of a job to do it yourself, especially when you've never done it. The electrical work alone took the professional a good 7 hours. Too many things can go wrong with this when you don't know what you're doing.

85% of gas stations here also sell LPG so there's no problems with getting it filled up.

The conversion I have is what's called a IV generation conversion; there is a V gen conversion that came out not too long ago but it's very expensive and since my car isn't new, i decided to go with the IV gen. I'm lovin' it so far; The car burns about a liter more of LPG per 100km than it burns fuel but it's 60% less you have to pay for LPG so it works out well.

The conversion here with installation cost me $1500 (US).

My maxima is a 98 SE that was imported from the US last year.

If you guys have more questions or would like to see pics, let me know.
My trunk looks like I have 70L of NOS or something

bigEL

Sorry for all the Q's, but I find this all absolutely fascinating. So was the ECU generic as well? Is that why the electronics were so difficult to sort out? Man, now I really want to do this. (Although I'd probably go with a large undercarriage LPG tank and replace my fuel tank with a smaller one, so I can have a useable trunk.) This and SFCs would be tops on my modding wishlist, followed by an Altima SE-R tranny swap if that were possible. Now if someone tells me there's an IRS kit out there for 5th gens... Heck, I'm already up to my eyeballs in debt, why not go for broke? Oh wait...I already am.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

What's so special about this compared to the 02/3 6MT tranny?

BTW, the SE-R tranny and 6th gen tranny are the same.

And the only difference with this and the 02/3 6MT is the F/D.

Wrightsfd

I thank you very much for the info. I will check out the link and more. My thought is that CNG (compressed natural gas) would be a better choice for me since I think it is more readily available here however propane (LPG) is a good option also and I believe it offers better performance than CNG. BigEL, I know there are spare tire tanks (fit in the spare tire well) that hold about 16 gallons of fuel and that there is always a warm-up with gasoline before the switch as I have had experience with some converted busses. I might persue this further after the New Year so I would love to talk to you both about this. I will try to figure out how to get my hands on a kit here (ebay?) and find a competent mechanic. I will get in touch with you both soon. Lets try to keep this thread going too.

BourneJ

Yes, a gas tank is always required since the car starts on gas & does not switch to LPG until the engine catches a certain temperature. I also had a chance to put in a tank in the spare tire space but I drive quite much and wanted a big tank; 70 L tank fits exactly 57 Liters of LPG and that lasts me for quite a bit.

Wrightsfd - let me know if you have any questions at all; i can get in touch with the guy that installed this for me to get some pointers on installs if you want.

- Jay

bigEL

For some reason, I had the impression that the SE-R had a different gear set, but my point was that I wanted an alternative to the 4-speed auto without having the added complexity of converting to manual. I know it's ironic, considering all the other stuff I mentioned. Like that stuff isn't complex. (me-->) What can I say? I'm a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.

Northern Maxima

Interesting...I was looking for 3rd gens for sale on the Auto Trader website and I found one that's listed as propane under fuel type. I thought the people on that dealership were just stupid but maybe they're right...maybe that's also why the car was $8000 even though it's so old! Of course they list traction control under features so who really knows...

http://www.canadatrader.com/result/d...6&pgno=1&srt=1

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

A LPG, CNG, or propane conversion would not only lower your fuel costs and pollute less, but it would make your engine last A LOT longer as well. Less maintanance as well.

konak85

iTrader: (10)

Its a win-win situation. Too bad the good old USA isnt taking advantage of this, i think it will very soon though

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

it will if and when the market demands it.

T-ryks

I can't believe this is possible?!? Now I want to do this...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Now you have 15 posts

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

propane isn't anything new. I remember most of the school buses being powered by propane back in the 80's.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Smells like

Wrightsfd

So I just got off the phone with David from Technocarb in Canada. They have all the parts needed to do the conversion and he gave me an estimate of just under $3000 for the install including new computer maping and a custom install of the generic kit for engines of this size. While this is a little steep, it is a somewhat reasonable amount of cash for the amount of work and parts involved.

The problem is this; it would be totally illegal to do and would result in a $100,000 fine plus $10,000 per day that the equipment is on the car after the EPA found out. Now, I highly doubt that the EPA is going to come after me for a one-off install designed to lower the emissions of my vehicle, but I bet they would make my life miserable for a while. Since I live in CA and we are required to test the cars every 2 years I just don't think it is worth the cost/risk. The problem is that there is not a kit that is EPA/CARB legal for any other vehicle than the GM 8.1 liter engine. Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM all sold the CNG vehicles as new and paid for their certification, but the general conversion kits are not for legal sale in the U.S. Maybe I'll write a letter to my congresswoman or try to talk to the EPA and CARB but it looks like the idea is dead, at least for me.

Now, if I wanted to drive a GM 8.1 liter monster pick-up truck...

bigEL

Not sure how difficult this would be, but you could look into getting an exemption/waiver by claiming your car is a special purpose vehicle. With all the custom cars and hot rods in CA, I'm sure someone will know how to get it done legally. I could have sworn that when I did a Goggle search, I found a couple US companies that did conversions, but only for commercial vehicles like delivery, limo, and buses (including Dodge and Fords, not just GM). Unfortunately, they were pretty obscure sites and I didn't bookmark them nor remember what keywords I used. Sorry.

4dscPat

What is the logic behind the Environmental Protection Agency fining you for making your car more environmentally friendly?

Skiptronic

Fining those who make the environment more friendly so that they can do more environment friendly things.

1FSTMAX

iTrader: (29)

PICS PLEASE!!!!!111

blackpaladin67

Hi all,

We have almost around 5-8% of all cars over here running on LPG you can even elect to have it fitted to your new Australian built car in the factory.

There are a number of generic kits 4,6 and 8 cyc that must be fitted by a automotive gas fitter and sell for around $1000 to $2000 USD.

It doubles the range of your car as you can switch between LPG and normal Petrol with just a button on the dash.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

some of you guys are funny . first of all forklifts are propane or natural gas and most have toyota or nissan car engines in them already.

BourneJ

Here are pictures of my installation (as promised).

Excuse the dirty trunk, engine bay & the whole car but we're finishing up our house and there is no time at all to take care of the car at this moment.

Here are a couple pics of what's in the trunk.



This is the whole brain of the LPG tank. (it also has an additional gauge in there where I can check how much LPG I still have left [there's one inside the cabin too])


Engine Pics:


This is the main component under the hood

BourneJ

The lid where you fill the tank up.
CLOSED


OPEN

BourneJ

Here's another close up of the engine bay where all the good stuff is going into the stock VI




The gauge on the left where the 4 leds light up is the indicator of how much LPG I have and it's also a touch button to switch between running the car on FUEL or running it on LPG.

gtr_rider

iTrader: (50)

holy crap thats sweet dude..!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Holy as.s cracker.... Nice...








On another note, that's not a VI.

|Bijan|

iTrader: (12)

What in the hell did I just look at

BourneJ

So far the car's running great.

I've gotten the lpg cpu tuned twice so far. After three times, I can have it tuned to have the car actually give more power on LPG than on fuel. Of course i will have to dyno the car to see if it's true. But so far it's head to head (fuel vs lpg); Each time I get it tuned, it runs better on LPG.
After 10,000km it's time for the third tuning of the cpu (i've got 7,000km done so far)...not much longer.

s0ber

iTrader: (7)

does it sound any different on lpg than on fuel? vids!! O_O

BourneJ

no difference...sounds exactly the same.
I can put a vid together of driving on fuel & then the conversion point when it converts to lpg...not really much to see though.
I've got a y-pipe & a hacked air box but it sounds like any other maxima with a y-pipe and a hacked box.

my ride

Originally Posted by 4dscPat
What is the logic behind the Environmental Protection Agency fining you for making your car more environmentally friendly?


to answer your question, the oil, coal, auto and power industries all legally bribe congress and the senate to shield their monopolies from ANY form of competition. After all, why let any form of money loss interfere with profits when it is so easy to legally bribe the people who make the rules.