$115 "BBK"! ~ 12.6 inch 2K4 front brakes on my 4th gen
 

I went to Mossy's site and found that they are selling "OEM Front Brake Upgrade" for $790. This kit consists of the 2K4 calipers, rotors, and pads which fits on 95+ Maximas. If the parts do indeed fit then why not go used? Donor cars are only a year or so old so the parts should be in good condition. So I took that route.

I purchased a pair of steering knuckles to eliminate downtime while getting the torque member (aka caliper mounts) mounting flange holes bored out. This is necessary on 4th gens because the bolts are smaller so the holes are smaller.

Since the knuckles are used parts I had new bearings pressed in as well (optional).

Here is a pic of the test fitment on my 17 in wheels. I was certain they would clear but I just want to make sure everything clears before I went ahead and had everything associated done (the wheel bearings pressed, rotors resurfaced, etc.):
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...38_32_full.jpg

Pic of the stock brake setup:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...38_33_full.jpg

Pic of the 2K4 brakes installed onto my car:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...38_34_full.jpg

Rundown of the "bare essential" 2K4 brake upgrade costs.
Used front calipers with mounts and pads: $30/pair.
Used front rotors $30/pair.
Resurfacing used rotors $15/pair.
Machining torque member mounting fllanges on spindle to accept the larger torque member bolts: $40 for both knuckles.

Total: $115.

This must be the most bang of the buck mod I've ever done. I wanted a "real" BBK but since I saved $ from buying a kit I can spend the money elsewhere :woot2:

For 4th Gen you must:

1. Bore out the torque member (aka caliper mounts) mounting flange holes on the steering knuckle to 14mm (+2mm)
2. Flatten the rotor dust shield. It is curved to fit over the stock 11 inch rotors. If you dont the 2K4 rotor will rest on it and will not seat on the hub. Do not completely remove this shield! if your CV boots break it will splatter grease all over your inner rotor face!

Anything else is optional (buying spare knuckles, press new wheel bearings etc).

I would recommend buying new pads as well plus misc stuff like brake fluid and brake hose banjo bolt crush washers (dont reuse the old ones). If you have money to burn I guess you can get cryo treated rotors from frozenrotors.com as well.

I have a set of Hawk HPS brake pads ready for install and will probably buy rotors from frozenrotors but these used pads are gripping quite well :wtf:

So how does this upgrade compare to our stock 4th gen brakes?
I really want to upgrade my brakes also, but dont have the funds, but $115 is way worth it.
Want to help me do this if i were to be interested??? :thumbsup:

How is this kit different than Matt's kit, other than you bought everything used??

http://www.mattblehm.com/relocation_kit.html

Mike, I think he uses a 6th gen caliper instead of the stock caliper, so the caliper itself must be "taller" to replace the bracket.

Maximus_95: Right after they were installed I drove out and did a series of stops to "bed" these pads (similar but not like Hawk's instructions). Its really too early to give a real evaluation but they definitely have more "whoa" when I hit the brakes.

Mizeree_X: The difference is Matt's kit uses a relocating bracket to raise the non 2K4 caliper and its torque member to clear the 2K4 rotor. I'm using 2K4 caliper and its original torque member, unmodified. Again the torque member mounting flange holes were bored out to accept the 2K4 mounting bolts.

So the caliper bolts to the stock 4th gen location, but with bored out holes? Replacing the wheel bearing was just because you had to have them out to bore out the torque member or am I misunderstanding something? Any chance of upgrading the rear in a similar manner?

yes.

Sorry I edited my original post to make it more clear. Replacing the wheel bearing has nothing to do with the actual brake upgrade. I mentioned that because I gave my reasons for buying a spare pair of knuckles (less downtime, have fresh wheel bearings pressed in since theyre not installed onto the car yet). Sorry for any confusion.

Since the knuckles are out of the car bringing them to a machine shop to have new bearings pressed in are much cheaper and worthwhile since you're dealing with used parts. If you decide to do this and get used knuckles like myself you can probably find a place that can do both the boring of the flange holes and wheel bearing replacement. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

So you got a second set of 4th gen knuckles and had a machine shop bore out the mounting holes and press in new bearings?

So basically the only 6th gen parts are calipers, pads, and rotors?

Is the brake line fitting the same as a 4th gen?

This is really cool how inexpensive this is. I wonder how it compares to the setup using z32 calipers that matt sells.

Yes on all counts :D I had the parts department check out the caliper banjo bolt and brake hose washer (crush gaskets) for both 97 Max and 04 Max. Part numbers were identical for both cars, so I bought new brake hose washers and reused my Techna-Fit SSBL.

awesome man... nice work

cool, do you know how much big rear rotors are on the 6th gen maxima??

and what kind of wheels are those?

offset, width, etc.


oh yeah, and great work!

slimer: 17" x 7.5" +45mm offset Rota Attack (fake Volk Gram Lights)

spanishrice: 11.5" x .04" (ours are 10.9 x .04)

edit: whoops

So how does it work? Should be great.

The brakes are awesome. I am not going to make any claims of measured/quantified testing /shorter stopping distances etc but I feel like I have more control of the brakes. The brakes clamp harder with less pedal pressure, I can threshold brake with better control because Im using lighter foot pressure. This may be all in my head but either way I'm happy with the upgrade. Plus it looks great :D. I have a coworker with an EVO RS and even he's impressed with my brake setup :D

this wat i love to see on this forum... people trying new things out. i'm gonna save this page so i can look at this later. if anything u mind if i pm u about questions for this.

Nice job man! Very intriguing. What is the setup on the 2k4 calipers? Are they single piston, non sliding like the 4th gen?

Another question. How is pedal feel? Some have complained of a spongy pedal with z32 calipers because our MC doesn't push enough fluid for them. Any problem like this?

This is so cool. Any plans to do the rears?

Interesting configuration, looks like stock but just with larger rotor discs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the original brakes are fine for normal street driving.
If you want to increase the brakes, there are kits already made that include better parts.

For $115, umm no you can't get a BBK. If you aren't gonna post anything constructive then don't post....

Or better yet, if you have no idea what you talking about, don't post.

endus: Single piston, sliding caliper like the 4th gen.

Terran: I did a series of hard stops on an empty freeway early in the morning yesterday. I have better pedal modulation when doing hard stops (paying attention to tire skidding noises and how firm my steering wheel stays during the panic stop for threshold braking). The pedal stroke distance appears to be the same, but the brakes do feel like they apply with more force earlier. It will probably feel even better when I install the Hawk HPS pads, since I'm using the used OE pads.

If the rears fit then it will most certainly be installed in the immediate future. :nod:

Thanks for the groundbreaking insight. :hahano:




:rolleyes:

i guess this guy only thinks a bbk orks if its shiny and colored red with letters on the calipers.

on n they way most of us drive the stock brakes are good enough

Very nice, for the price and little work that needed to be done... this is awesome. It still intrigues me that after all these years 6th gens still use single piston calipers...

hey vee do u have an idea of the minimum size oem wheel this would fit behind? cause if it can fit behind 16's or somthing that would be great for alot of people.

Single piston calipers are cheaper. Lots of cars use it. Also someone posted saying they tried it on a 5th gen and the stock 5th gen 17in wheels won't fit (need spacer or less offset wheels) But 6th gen 17in wheels and up will fit. So check your wheel fitment!

i have a couple winter wheels to look at, im not sure if a set of 300zx 16's would fit? cause wit his 17's there seems to be some room in there. im not sure of the offset of the 300zx wheels

300zx wheels will not fit. Here's that link in the 5th gen forum

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=378038

thanks alot for the link

Just to be clear, the caliper brackets were from a 4th gen correct?

Everything else from the 2k4?

Great job, I have to add these parts to my junkyard list.

You have a 2001, you don't need brackets if you want to install the 2k4 calipers and 2k4 rotors on your 2001. If you do this, you'll have to either get spacers for the front wheels or get wheels with a different offset. Your stock wheels will not clear the 2k4 calipers. The 2k4 17" and 18" wheels will fit however because they are 35 mm offset I think. Check the link I posted two threads above for more explanation.

congrats,

you have entered the ranks of the maxima pioneer. <1% of the total number of org members unfortunately!

Good creativity! I may have to try this if I decide to get wheel spacers for my stock 17" 5th gen wheels :(

theMax: everything is off a 2K4 max. Look at the brackets from the stock pic. The torque member curves with the rotor hat. On the 2K4 pic there is ample clearance so the torque member is basically straight. The caliper assembly is much larger than the 4th gen caliper assembly.

Thanks but I didn't pioneer anything. It was displayed on a website to be viable alternative to big brake kits and all I did was source cheap used parts instead of getting raped by dealer pricing.

ken, do you have ABS? if not, do these lock up earlier or no (or maybe not with the oem pads on there, but let us know when you get the hawks on)? I would imagine you must have a good deal less fade...the only thing I would want is the aluminum 95+ twin turbo Z calipers (mmm...4 piston)...coupled with these rotors....so I guess I'm saying matt's kit that he sells...however, in another thread matt mentioned that larger rotors in the front would simply make our braking worse (distance and distribution)...weird that he would in affect "knock" his own product....but then again he was also trying to promote getting his new rear kit upgrade as well to retain the factory brake distribution...but all this time he has been selling the front only kit and promoting it like it would make our cars brake like no other....lol so I would wonder if going with a good fluid, SSBL, and good rotors/pads would be more than enough even with our small 11" front brakes...which is basically my current setup...I would just prefer to get rid of the gap between the caliper and wheel in the front atleast...but it would be nice to see a 4 piston powdercoated caliper that says nissan on it from behind the wheel as well! I just hope that caliper clears my wheels cause they are really bulky calipers if you have ever looked at them up close and in person!

9/93 and newer NA and TT Z32 calipers are all Iron

You need to source 7/89 to 4/92 TT or 7/90 to 4/92 NA 300zx calipers.


The larger rotors on the front will help stopping, the only thing is that you will experience more front bias, which is where Matt's rear kit comes into play. Or for us 3rd genners we can simply use a earlier model year rear caliper bracket and rotors from a 86 Z31 turbo and balance out our bias :)

VeeQueue,

You have a pretty good find here, but I was wondering if you could help me a little bit here.

When I was doing my brake job (97 GXE no ABS) I remember that the bolts for the caliper are 14mm ....and the bolts for the torque member to the axle is 17mm.

I get to the part that I need to buy rotors and calipers from 2k4, but I did not get the 12mm thing. There are no 12mm holes in the 4th gen max, unless you mean that I would need to get 2k4 torque member (on top of the rotors and calipers) and bore the hole to 14mm (and use 4th gen bolt) to connect 2k4 caliper and 2k4 torque member?

But then this does not make sense for me....

I apologize not understanding this right away, but would you mind letting me know about this 12mm to 14mm thing? Am I correct to assume that I need to bore out the torque member of 2k4 to 14mm? But why?

Allright,

After reading the thread over and over while looking at the pics, now I know that you use everything from 2k4, the torque member, the caliper, pads and rotors.

However, I still don't get the 12mm thing. Which bolt was it? Like I stated earlier, when I was working on my car's brakes, I only dealt with 14mm ones (connects the calipers to the torque members, this won't be used anymore with this modification) and the 17mm bolts for connecting the caliper bracket (or torque member) to the axle.

I even look at the pictures from motorvate.ca but I can't find those 12mm holes.

I am not referring to the socket size used to remove the torque memeber mounting bolts. I am talking about the diameter of the torque member mounting flange holes.
I was able to find a pic of my beadblasted hub:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...38_35_full.jpg
The flanges have 12mm wide holes. Measure the hole with a ruler and it will be 12mm wide.

VeeQueue:

Thank you for the picture. It really helps. I guess if I will be doing this, I would go your route, getting another set of the part in the picture so I could just swap them to minimize downtime.

Thank you

do know if the steering knucles are some one the 4-6th gens? if so we could just buy a set of used gth gen knuckles and not have to have the holes redrilled. i might go you route since i need new bearings ni a worse way