I actually have a JWT popcharger on the max, but Im not up on any gains with this mod. I would like to know 2 things.
1. What is the approx. horsepower increase with the JWT versus the Cold Air Intake ?
2. Which has the better engine sound ?

I know my JWT popcharger roars and sounds great..! How does it compare to a cold air intake. Which sounds best ? Is the JWT Popcharger louder ?

*Cold Air Intake - Injen, Place Racing, and whatever else someone may have is all game.
Also, its ok if you only have one or the other. Just explain ..

 

I have a Hybrid, and think it sounds great...I can't really remember what my car sounds like before the midpipe, but I think it sounds better than a CAI

 

I had a popcharger on mine for a few months before I went to CAI a couple yrs ago.

IMHO the popcharger isnt worth the cost and utterly dismays me that people pay what they do for an adapter plate and a cone filter (hence why I spent $20 on mine )...same with the hybrid...but nonetheless...

I actually felt more on the butt dyno from my CAI than I did my y-pipe. You'll gain more power all around with the CAI and the sound should be the same (probably a little deeper/throatier due to the piping).

 

Does a place racing cai sound louder and more awesome than stock ?
how about performance gains over the JWT popcharger intake ?

 

Wow ... we haven't had a popcharger VS CAI thread in a long time!



CAI will sound louder. But louder does not equal faster or better or else Civics with fart cans mufflers would be smoking Ferraris.

They both yield pretty much the same power - the difference being when they yield that power.

The popcharger yield better gains from the mid to high end while the CAI is better for low to mid end.

Best thing is to get a popcharger and slap on a midpipe, making it a hybrid and you get overall gains.

 

the gains you get are roughly 3-5 hp. if you would like some of your low end power back you should purchase a midpipe to get rid of the resonator

 

thanks for the info ..where can you purchase just a midpipe ?

 

The CAI sounds better but the fastest bolt on maximas are using Pop chargers, some of them with Midpipe. 'Nuff said.

 

Errr, I think the velocity stack that comes with the Stillen/JWT kits costs more to make than the tubes in the CAIs. It's a velocity stack, not an adaptor plate.

 

I had the frankencar/jwt before, but now I have an Injen. Personally I like the injen better b/c of the better low end response. Its a little louder than the midpipe/jwt combo.

 

Blah this an oldie debate for sure.

I feel a CAI benifits more in "real world" conditions over any pop charger. This advantage may not show on a dyno but the CAI truly shines around town when underhood temps increase while your at stop lights etc. My VG dogs on hot days around town with a pop charger, not so with a CAI.

Most on this board are not at the drag strip or dyno everyday, they want power when there on there everyday drives around town in traffic and such and thats where the CAI benifits over any pop charger. Sit at a stop light for 1 min on a 90 degree day and then take off, the difference between Pop and CAI is obvious.

People use "hybrids" at tracks for obvious reasons, there is no need for this cold air when you let your car cool down after each run and have your hood open etc.

 

My bad...

'Velocity Stack'

 

I think he was talking about how the Stillen and JWT use a velocity stack and others just use an adaptor plate and put a filter on it. The velocity stack is supposed to smooth air flow which might help in horsepower and throttle response.

That's why these intakes are more expensive.
Here's a pic of my velocity stack:

 

here's how the filter attaches

 

Dude, the velocity stacks have to be put in a CNC machine. They aren't just cut tubes. More expensive to make. Like mentioned above, it's supposed to smooth airflow and it allows you to use a filter with larger surface area. The issue wasn't the correct name
for it. Rather justifying the cost of the intake. A real pop charger (JWT or Stillen) doesn't use a cheap MAF adaptor like many people have. If you had a cheapie 3 inch adaptor with a filter with a 3 inch opening, you didn't have a POP Charger. It's all about the 6 inch opening man.

 

www.warpspeedperformance.com
www.frankencar.com

 

I agree, a precisely machined piece of billet aluminum takes more time and energy and money to develop than a couple pieces of tubing. Some people don't understand this. So lets recap.

1) The JWT POP is cheaper than the CAI
2) The JWT POP makes for a faster car than the CAI.
3) The CAI still sounds better.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

4) JWT POP is an easier install and doesn't need cutting like the CAI.

3 out of 4.

 

5. The possibility of getting water in your filter with a CAI.

4 out of 5

 

chariot: It all depends on what you want.
i have a place racing CAI and it sounds better than a hybrid in my opinion and sound wise, its amazingly better than just a pop charger. dont just use a pop charger, go either hybrid or CAI. hybrid is better all around and doesnt involve cutting a whole in the fender wall, but if your auto, i would say get the CAI, its best for low end and autos really need low end. plus CAI sounds better, but the over all best buy is probably just the hybrid.

 

Lol okay people...

I know what a 'velocity stack' is and I know the theory/logic behind it. Now, having knowledge of what that is, I still choose to sarcastically put it in quotes in referrence to the waaaaay overpriced JWT Pop Charger.

It's a decent theory with (what, 1-2 hp if anything over just a pure cone filter and adapter?) gains behind it, but when it all boils down, it's just a sales gimmick to jack up the price. Granted, it may cost more than just a pure adapter plate to manufacture, but if you think a PopCharger costs what it does solely because of the 'cnc oh so expensive and delicate velocity stack' you're delusional.

The velocity stack has sound logic behind it, but then on the other hand, so does the Tornado intake kit and the like.

 

Well, after reading all this... im thinking I would enjoy an Injen CAI or Place Racing CAI better than the POP Charger ? I would be getting more gains right? or is it all a gimmick ? i just personal would change from a pop charger to a cai if i new it sounder better and more aggressive but if it adds more power than the popcharger then its really worth getting ... the Injen CAI at least looks better under the hood ...so there could be several positives to it ..

 

*sigh* What you stated was that you can't believe people pay what they pay for an "adaptor plate" and a filter. What I was stating is that this adaptor plate and filter probably costs more than the whole CAI to make. Not loads more, but marginally more. What I'm saying is to each his own. If you want to talk about what something is worth. Picking on the worth JWT/Stillen's velocity stack isn't the way to go. You have to have one in your hand to understand how well made they are. As for performance. Like Neal said. Fastest maxes out there are running Pop Chargers. For all around driving the CAI's may be better. But they are also more expensive.. By about 100 dollars! So you really can't compare the two. If you're stating the Pop Charger may have 1-2hp over the CAI or homemade HAI.. then that's a great HP per dollar ratio right there. So, the CAI costs more to make than a Pop Charger? What if I told you that a pop charger costs 5 dollars to make, and a CAI costs 8. But the Pop Charger is 120, and the CAI is 220. Do you see what I'm getting at? You're getting a really good intake for 120 dollars. It's only drawback is maybe loss of low end. The drawback of the CAI is maybe not as much high end. To each his own. Don't go calling Pop Charger owners delusional.

 

The CAI gives less gains, is cheaper to produce, and costs more money. Now who's jacking up the price again? The CAI is like $10 worth of material and labor, that sells for $220. The Pop charger is probably $30 worth of material and labor, and costs $100. I think you're a bit confused.

 

Who paid $220 for a CAI? Not me.

Dont use over-priced 4th gen CAI's in referrence to the cost of my CAI. I have the original WSP VE CAI, and I paid less than what Pop-Chargers are selling for. You have ME confused. I paid less for my CAI than you guys are buying Pop-Chargers for. I wasnt aware CAI's were going for $220, so keep that in mind for my point of view.

As far as actual production costs you guys gotta be kidding me. Maybe initially the design/development/production cost of the cnc machined velocity stack was higher than just pure mandrel bent piping. But after that initial cost was re-couped (sp?) I would venture to say the costs are probably pretty close with the difference in the costs trivial at best.

Neal as far as the fastest Maximas using Pop-Chargers statement I'm not much affected/intrigued by that. If you (and other fastest Maximas) had/have run with a good CAI AND a Pop-Charger in identical situations and ran slower with the CAI then you have a point. If not, that statement has no meaning.

 

Since the thread starter is talking about CAI vs POP for his 4th gen, a VE CAI doesn't really apply.

If it were an isolated case of a POP being faster than a CAI then that's one thing, but it seems to be more of an epidemic. It's repeated time after time at tracks around the country, in all sorts of racing conditions. Maybe it's nothing more than a coincidence, maybe its not. Still, a POP is cheaper than a CAI when talking about 4th gens. And even if they performed exactly the same, I'd still go for the cheaper one.

 

This $220 number thrown around isnt that representative of CAI's. WSP 4th gen kits are $155, whereas the average price I'm finding for Pop-Chargers is $175+.

Also I'm still not so swayed by the general consensus amongst 4th genners that Pops are faster. I know I got great gains from my CAI all around and I seriously find it hard to believe a CAI can hurt you at the track. I also dont find other car enthusiast rings (and I'm a big 'car guy') to share this general consensus of a good CAI not giving great gains all around. I dont see why that consensus is here, especially considering there's not any quantifiable evidence to support it (for our application).

The claim of CAI's hurting top end is also true and test proven...assuming you're a high revving car (8-9k). I've also seen short ram/pop intakes making good power up high in high revving cars (8-9k). So it's true. But are you guys revving that high? *Scratches chin*

Show me a dyno proven test of a CAI vs Pop with the Pop making more power and I'll shutup. Oh, and make sure you close the hood for the Pop dyno.

 

I got my Pop Charger for 120, new from Courtesy Nissan about 4 years ago. I've never seen a JWT pop charger go for more than 127. If you're paying more than that, you're getting ripped off. Even if the WSP CAI kit is 155 and the JWT POP is 125, it doesn't change the fact that it probably costs more to make the Pop Charger. The plate and the HUGE filter very well may cost more than the tubes and the normal 3 inch filter. That was the original debate. I won't even get in to the gains. I still say the performance of the two are so close it's not worth comparing gains. There are too many variables. I weigh 150lbs with a Pop Charger. I could race a 4th gen max like mine with a CAI and the other driver may be 200lbs. I'd probably win if all else was equal. Too hard to compare because the difference is so small. As for reving, many of us are reving to 7000-7200rpm now.

 

after having my hybrid on for over a year i put my cai back on lastnight(pr one) and all i can say is throttle response is down but god damn power is back up. Im still smiling from the midrange gain with it and the sound is so much better. i still say the colder air helps and my manifold is cold after a long drive instead of warm like it was with the hybrid. i also dont notice this magical high end loss everyone speaks about just weaker throttle response. maybe everyone feels the hybrid is faster or better cause of throttle response. either way ive had both and tried both (which ive owned for about 3 years now) and for an automatic maxima i still say a cai is the way to go. 5 speeds im not sure about

 

I totally agree....I've had my CAI on both my VE auto and now my VE 5spd and it's by far the way to go.

 

I searched and searched and searched the CAI vs Pop for a very long time before deciding on an intake, my recomendation is to go with a TRUE hybrid, not just some short ram intake that people call a hybrid.

Look on the for sale forums here for a JWT velocity stack and filter, I picked mine up from an org member for 50.00 shipped. It is true that popchargers run the best numbers though, and if nothing else you can get one from cattman for 125.00 (these intakes were actually researched and developed unlike some

Then make your own midpipe for about 15.00 (save your money for somthng you can't make like a Y-pipe)
http://drwebdesign.com/mymaxima/upperintake.html

Now is the tricky part, feed that intake outside air, you can look at my profile down on the bottom to see how I do this. A ton of air goes underneath the car at speed and should help feed that filter. I kept my lower air box, measured the midpipe so that it sits the filter above it, then used the pipe you see to feed it.

Here are the run down of intakes

-TRUE hybrid design some call it "OSCAI" - short piping, air has a straight shot to the throttle body, and it gets some cool air

-Popcharger - short piping, air has a straight shot to the throttle body (other than the very minimal resistance that may be caused by the resinator, if you open it up you will see it is hardly restrictive), it gets hot air

- The classically reffered to "Hybrid" intake - a little bit longer piping than what the resinator is, air has a straight path, get's hot air.

- Injen intake - long piping, two bends for air to travel through before reaching the throttle body, sits right in front of the radiator getting hot air.

- PRCAI - long piping, two bends before the thottle body, gets outside air.

Let me help dispell some myths about intakes for you.
1. You will not feel a difference between one intake to the next, this is called the placebo effect, I didn't even feel my Y-pipe but when I raced others that had raced me before it it was easy to see that it gave monsterous gains. No ones but dyno is that precise

2. The reffered to here "hybrid intake" (really the same thing as a short ram intake) will not give you low end back. Here are the dyno's

Before
http://www.frankencar.com/product_i/..._before_lg.jpg

After
http://www.frankencar.com/product_i/...o_after_lg.jpg

Print these out, put the after dyno on top of the before dyno, and now hold it up to a light, presto you lose power until about 4800rpm.

3. The INJEN CAI is not a CAI

I hope you appreciate this because the flames are about to start rolling all over me for bringing this up, just remember guy's I am just trying to help this guy out. All intakes will yield about the same gains, and will be maximized by a Y-pipe so it really makes little difference. I would suggest getting one that at least has some R & D behind it.

 

14.45@99.51mph with a hacked stock intake box and all resonators removed. Enough said.


Dave

 

that is a really awesome write up on the intake. i also like the color you painted it.

 

Street Reeper...

Aaron92se made one just like that except I believe he replaced the accordian section as well. Doesnt not replacing that section hinder anything you might gain?

BTW everyone...

RPMs

 

I am also of the hacked air box population, I have sense converted to a JWT pop (no pics sorry) but I am still feeding it with the original set up, here is my right up and pics of the hacked air box. I have made two midpipes, have two lower air boxes so I can put it back to stock, and a JWT popcharger and it has all cost me less than an aftermarket intake.

First here is the midpipe - also notice the CUSTOM CHROME HOOD STAND
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...99_11_full.jpg

Here is another closer shot, it is painted metallic black
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...99_12_full.jpg

Here is the picture of the bypassed resinator, it is a 3inch coupler attached to a 3inch pipe. This is where the little pipe was located that ran from the snorkel to the battery, just disconnect the little pipe and you can attach somthing more constructive.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...99_15_full.jpg

Here is the four inch mouth connected to the above, please excuse the bugs, this particular shot was taken after a trip from OKC to Dallas
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...499_8_full.jpg

Finally here is the ported air box
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...99_13_full.jpg

And another closer shot, this opening is far enough away from the engine that I hope it will be free of hot air, and for the most part get air coming from around the hood.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...99_14_full.jpg

This is a great intake, the only thing that made me go to the JWT intake, was so I could get a direct straight path to the throttle body, and having it smoothed out a little by the velocity stack.

As for the accordian section it is not restrictive. The most restrictive part of the intake is the air box itself. The inlet to the air box coming from the snorkel is smaller than the outlet to the throttle body, that was my thinking in the hacked air box idea. Bends and smaller openings are the only thing that I would think would be restrictive.

 

I thought that I had pretty much cleared up this issue when I compared the stock intake to a hybrid WAI intake to a PR CAI intake. I guess people still debate it.

The WAI/hybrid produced the most peak HP.
The stock box produced 6 HP less than the WAI.
The CAI produced 2-3 HP less than the WAI.

The WAI produced the most torque.
The stock box produced less torque than both.
The CAI produced almost the same as the WAI, but still 1/2 ft/lb or so less.

So for all who wonder, get the hybrid. I've yet to test the different intakes with a full exhaust setup, but I know that I like the feel of the CAI with my Y/B/Cat/Exhaust setup. The WAI was nice, but the CAI brings back some of the lost torque.

 

I thought you just said that the WAI produced the most torque, then you say that the CAI brings back some of the lost torque?

Do you have dyno graphs, peak hp is not what i would be looking for in performance, but rather hp across the RPM range. Thanks for the input.

 

You know we should clear this up abit. We could say that a CAI works better than a WAI on the VG engines rather than VE/VQ. I have dyno data showing the opposite of what you have. I gained 11whp/13wtq going from a WAI to CAI. From 4000-5500rpm I gained 14whp/9wtq average. I have the dyno charts and timeslips to back it up. But again that was in my VG, which is totally different engine.

Also my CAI was ghetto in that all it was 3in pvc from the MAF to the cone filter in the fender. The piping from MAF to TB was stock. I'm pretty sure my OEM airbox was alot more restrictive than say a 4th gen too. What we need is dyno data on 3rd gen VG/VE engines on the WAI/CAI. Hell we don't even really need dyno data, all we need to do is measure the peak MAF voltage from both intakes. The higher voltage means more air flow, so generally it should make more power.

 

Dyno Graphs please, I thought cheston and someone else had done this on a 4th gen?

 

I'll explain in a sec.

Senario 1: When the car does not have a full exhaust setup, the WAI wins in both HP/Torque. The WAI wins by a decent margin over the CAI.

Senario 2: When the car has a full exhaust setup, the WAI wins in HP, but the CAI wins in Torque. The difference is minimal at best between the 2 once the full exhaust is installed.

Acutally yes I do. I have about 20 of them. The air/fuels are also different between them as well, so it's hard to compare them without analyzing them.

I've dyno'd the following conditions:
Stock exhaust and WAI
Stock exhaust and CAI
Stock exhaust and stock intake
Y/B/Cat/Muffler and WAI (multiple runs to tune air/fuel)
Y/B/Cat/Muffler and CAI (multiple runs to tune air/fuel)

I'd post them up, but I'd be here all day scanning them.

With the Y/B/Cat/Muffler, the CAI has a lower HP curve than the WAI did, but only by about 1-3 HP across the entire RPM range. The WAI had about 1-3 ft/lbs of torque LESS than the CAI across the entire RPM range.

Basically speaking, if your exhaust is modified, get either one. The results are minimal and could even be a "good run vs. bad run" scenario.

If your exhaust is not modified, get the WAI. Dyno pics are on my homepage for this setup.