So I'm happy, but not so happy.

So I ran a couple times to get a baseline.

run 1: 60ft(2.500), 1/4 mile(16.301), trap (86.88) Thats bad since I usually run 16.0 (stock ECU)

2: 60ft(2.568), 1/4 mile(16.492), trap (87.06) (stock ECU)

3: 60ft(2.466), 1/4 mile (16.039), trap (88.60) (JWT ECU)

4: 60ft(2.492), 1/4 mile (16.141), trap (88.19) (JWT ECU)

So you think thats bad huh? Well I was pinging pretty badly at 5k rpm, and I could feel the power loss at 5k. Want to know whats worse, well the redline wasnt bumped to 7k like it should have been its still at 6.5k. (all with the JWT ECU)

I also brought the timming back down to stock before installing the ECU. It was previously 5* advanced.

After my initial runs, then installing the ECU, I left the track to drive it a bit. I did this b/c I did a run between #2 and 3, but I let off the gas when I heard the pinging.

Mods: pop charger, transgo shift kit, suspension, 170 thermostate, walbro FP, Warpspeed Y. I'm probably missing something but you get the idea.

 

If they didn't change the rev limiter, then hey f***ed something up. send it back.

 

First thought, you said it had the SOHC sticker on it? I'd imagine it wouldn't run though if it weren't the VE ECU.

Second though, if you could lower your 60s, you'd be in the 15s no prob

 

Right Matt, not only isnt it hitting 7k, but its pinging at 5k!! and with stock timming

Yeah Klown, I'd agree the engine would not run if it were a SOHC ecu, also I compared all the numbers on both ecu and they were identical!

I told cattman, that I didnt want them to rush out my ecu, b/c I new they could F-something up! . He says, "No no, they do good work there".

 

JWT has been slacking on customer service lately. I would call Brian immediately and then personally call JWT on Monday morning.

 

I couldn't make it today Eric...sorry about that. Next time I'll go but **** I don't feel like ordering the ECU if their customer service sucks and they mess up after all this time with sending you the wrong ECU.

 

 

Yeah and Yeah......


Well I have a theroy, and I think since the engine pinged hard at 5k, it may have to do with the VTC circuit. The person who returned it may have botched a VTC re-wire and fried the circuit. That would have kept the VTC's engaged and at 5k they failed to disengage, thereby leaving the cams in the advanced position! Just a theory, quite possible.

Right now the stock ecu is in. I'm driving with stock timming, and it sucks

I just want my friggen money back, like I asked for in the first place.

 

I agree.

 

sorry dude, that sux big time....at least now its reinforced for the rest of us that nless u got 30 grand JWT doesnt give a crap...
hope it works out 4 u...$$$ back is goodish

 

That sucks man, I would definitely let someone hear an earfull. Good luck.

 

Man, that sucks. That makes me want to stay away from JWT. I hope you get it sorted out.

As for the 60' times, I seriously doubt Eric is spinning. So, therefore, I don't see a way to lower 60' without just more mods. If he had a VG, then traction would be a problem.

I got a lot of mid 2.5x's kinda 60's in Vegas when I was running 16.40s. When I got UDP, my 60' dropped one tenth. In NC, I had 2.29s with my 14.80s. In Fontana (1000'), I get mid 2.3s with my 15.10s. And in Vegas (2000'), I get very high 2.3s with my 15.50s. And in ALL of those tracks, I have no traction problems. In Fontana, I have to slightly lighten my torque brake b/c the track sucks so much. But other than that, it's HARD to spin an auto VE.

Keep us posted Eric. I am very interested in your ECU thoughts.

 

thanks guys

So in the end, it seems that it will work out. I'm sending back the ecu for a refund.

I got off the phone with Jim Wolf (smart guy, good conversation). He's asking me to try running the car again but retarding the timming 3*. I was telling him that I'm not going to run that ecu again. So he's telling me that all ecu's are tested for 6-8 hours on a simulation program. He's telling me that the ecu couldnt be bad. I asked about the VTC theory, and he said even the vtc's are tested in the simulation program.

So whats that look like now for me, we'll I guess I have some diagnostic work to do. I told him about when I removed all the injectors and cleaned the filter screens, I mentioned that the filter screens had a good percentage filled with carbon, he was thinking that that was pretty bad and that maybe there was stuff blocking the pintles (not necessarily carbon, but maybe even from the solenoids). The car runs great right now (just got the emissions done, the car is basically like new), but its not hitting those track numbers like we would expect, so fuel could be the cause. I told him I plan to do some diagnostics with the 'consult' tool, and a power balance test, he said that may not reveal the problem with the injectors since they only have to open a little for idle. And the problem that I was seeing at 5k rpm would not be so simple to diagnose, unless I used the consult to it full capabilities and did some data logging (a lot of data logging!) he said they're good at analyzing the data.

If the car isnt running right with the new ecu, then their is no way I can keep it since I have to send my original back. I wouldnt have enough time to do the work required to find/fix the problem.

So for all of you that think JWT su-cks, I guess they dont, they may be a bit slow. He was telling me that they never have this type of trouble and that the ECU upgrade for the third gen and its quite reliable.

The future: maybe some new injectors
The far future: maybe a jwt ecu

 

Your only real go fast mods are Pop charger, Ypipe, advanced timing, and JWT ECU.

I was able to shave about 3 tenths for Ypipe, and 2 tenths for timing. Maybe one tenth for cone filter. I'm assuming the ECU will shave 3 tenths. Without the ECU, you should be running 15.80's. Then, maybe mid 15's with ECU. So, you said you were running 16.0's with pop, Y, and timing? That's not that bad. Just let your VE cool down WAY further and you will shave a couple more tenths. The heat kills the VE.

I bet there is NOTHING wrong with your car Eric. You will not see great times unless you let your engine cool down. That's the way it goes for any motor. When I had those mods, I was able to shave a few tenths by launch it when it's below 160 degrees. That's cool. So, don't let your temp needle get to mid way, launch your car colder than that. I don't think there's anything wrong with your car in order to make it slow. I think I read somewhere that you said that you ran your 16.0 at operating temp. I think that's an AWESOME time for a warm engine.

 

Thanks for all the positive comments Aaron.

I think the JWT ECU would have easily taken .4, from those numbers above it took .3 under those bad conditions.

But Aaron saying there is nothing wrong with my engine doesnt explain the detonation at 5k. The new ecu pushes the limits of the engines performance, and if there is even a little problem its going to show up.

If I can do it, I'm gonna get diagnostics done ASAP.

 

Yeah, as far as the detonation goes, I dunno. But your times aren't that far off of what they should be. I believe Jeff had detonation also. I think he had to retard his timing below stock also. Ask him about it, he can tell you more.

And also, the fact that your rev limiter is still 6700 really worries me. That shows me that you don't have the correct JWT ECU program. JWT SHOULD have an explanation for that one. Please keep us informed.

 

ok ok, I'll give JWT a call soon, I'll be ordering mine soon and expecting it Christmas time lol. I never touched my timing so this should be plug and play and drive, right? I have never been to the track, I gotta see what my car is running now....I will do that soon.

 

Actually Jim wolf corrected me on the 7k redline. Its only if I were manually shifting! DUH, if I were stick it would be all good, but the auto would require a tranny ECU upgrade to work that 7k redline into "normal" driving.

 

oh that means it would work for me

 

Of course... it will not change shift points. At WOT you should shift at around 6100 rpm. And if you manually shift, you would hit the rev limiter at 6700 stock. With the JWT ECU, it should be 7K rpm exactly. If I am racing, I ALWAYS manually shift just b/c I am still making a lot of power beyond 6100 that I can use. I just wish I had a higher rev limiter to utilize my intake manifold porting.

Eric, did you retard your timing slightly? If so, how many degrees are you reading right now? You still pinging? I wouldn't be so quick to send the ECU back just yet. Make sure you are at 15 degrees and not something like 17. If you really want to get rid of your ECU, I will be happy to take it off your hands if it's working perfectly, which I think and hope it is.

 

Actually Aaron, my normal redline is 6500rpm (not 6100rpm). With normal shifting in power mode the tranny easily pulls to 6500rpm.

I didnt even bother retarding the timming, and according to Jim Wolf it should'nt be necessary. He was telling me that just to help diagnose it. There's no way I can drive around with the possibility of detonating.

So the ECU is on its way back (mixed feelings).

I never manually shift my tranny, I dont want to even imagine the damage that can/will eventually occur. I hear all to often of someone manually shifting and then the tranny dieing.

 

A transmission's shift point and rev limiter are two very different things. I believe the reason why your shift point is 6500 is b/c you've posted back in the past about tinkering with the TPS. The TPS will make the tranny think more throttle is being applied, therefore, a higher shift point... and probably harsher on your tranny too if you go overboard with the TPS adjustment. (Believe me.. lol I've tried it) If you want to be absolute certain about the TPS setting, refer to your FSM and test the resistance of the TPS.

Have you ever hit your rev limiter before? With JWT ECU and/or stock ECU? In order to do this, you will have to put the shift selector in 1st gear, then go WOT until the tach reaches exactly 6700 rpm. Then, you will hit your fuel cut off and it won't go any further. The rev limiter is there so you don't over rev and blow your motor.

The people that I have heard of blowing up their trannies b/c they manually shifted had MUCH more to the story. Most were N dropping, some were trying to do burnouts bouncings off the rev limiter for 60 seconds. There is absolutely no way you can blow your tranny just by manually shifting the right way. I only manually shift when I want to hold 1st gear a little higher than my normal shift point. If you do that, you won't blow your tranny nessecarily. But, you can definitely put a little more strain on your tranny by doing that.

I'm sorry to hear that JWT didn't work out. Did you ever check the timing with a timing light? Are you sure you were at 15 BTDC? Just checking. Your incident makes me wanna stay away from JWT. I just wanna get the whole story. Thanks man.

 

nope, actually I did nothing to mod my tps.

My redline came to 6500 after doing a bunch of tune up stuff, like new coils, mafs connectors...and such.

Your engine might need more done, so it'll generate full potential (maintanance wise).

 

Your redline is not 6500. Your shift point is 6500.

Maintenance wise, I've tested every sensor I can according to my FSM. But, that doesn't mean they aren't bad.

So, you're saying that you use to have a shift point of less than 6500? I've been shifting at exactly 6100 since I've owned the car. Wierd!

 

Have you replaced all the coils?

Yeah it pulls all the way to 6500 before it shifts, and in power mode it usually holds 6500 briefly before shifting.
It was definitly lower before but I cannot say what it was, something like 6300 or 6200. I probably have an old post on it, I'll take a look.

 

It's possible that the tach could be off? they aren't always accurate. I'm gonna wire up like some sort of LED shift light or something that I can stick in one of the air vents.

 

so your getting your money back. i am certain some poepl have an ecu for their ve, maybe someone can enlighten us on the capabilities. mybe it could have been a bad ecu, or maybe your max didnt want to accept the ecu change. I want to know if JWT test out their ecu for any problems, sorta like a certified test to make certain that all is well. I would like JTW to diagonose the ecu, maybe they left out something while reprograming the unit. I would get the ecu, and see how it is, but until i the time allows me to i will get the ve ecu with the NOS daughter board reprogrammed with it. yes, nos, that is the cheapest why i can get the extra umph i want. i never driven/riden in a nos max. wonder how the felling is. anyone wants to allaberate.?


-Izzy.

 

Here is a mini vid of the redline:

right click, save as (1.5 mb)
http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/stu/ebaumber/index/Redline.avi


The redline looks more like 6400, but dont forget the lighter portion of the tach goes up to 6600 before the background color turns red. So the image is a little misleading.

JWT says they fully test their ECU's for a long time on a simulation program. Hey I"m not that dissapointed, now I have some work to do to find out whats wrong, no big deal I like doing this stuff.

 

actually that looks about right, is that with the ecu or with out. if its with the ecu then yes you didnt get the full 7k, but that is what a normal automatic shifts at. now if you manually shifted then you can get the rpms all the way up. I know there isnt a comparison, but my vg would go all the way up to redline when manually shifting and just before getting there i would dip to second.

Nice run, looks like your 0-60 is about 8-9 sec. btw is that 1st gear all the way up to 40's second to 70's? dayum.

that is the exact same thing i did on my vg.

I would go to like 35's+ and shift,, 2nd went to almost 65+ and shifted to 3rd ..

also side note. did you leave the o/d button off? witht he light on. also did you put the power/comfort switch to power?

 

your 5 speed?

My 5 speed shifts out of first at 37mph then out of second at around 70-75 then I can take 3rd out to 107-110mph.

Plus ALL of our tachs and speedos are off anyways...

 

i was talking about my vg auto

 

I've tested all the coils, but no I haven't replaced them. They tested fine, but they still can be a little bad.

Here is a video of me... it's hard to tell where I shifted, but I left it in D and shifted at 6100 rpm.

http://www.javay.com/bbs/Aaron%200%20to%2070.mov

 

If the tach is off then its not biggie, but I'm telling you the coils need to be replaced. If you want your engine to make full power, it will need a good powerful spark. Checking the coils with an ohm meter is'nt good enough, thats only for worst case senario where the coils has fully shorted out. The dielectric inside those original coils has broken down greatly and is shorting internally. This can be your next mod .

 

It might be. Is there any other way to try to determine if a coil pack isn't operating to it's full extent? The FSM only says to test the resistance. As far as I know, I am running of my original coils at 135K miles.

I believe my next mod is springs and struts. Which I need very badly.