To put a long story short let's just stay some shop that I am suing cut my EFI harness to install a new mass air flow sensor because the plug connecting to the mass air flow sensor had a shorted wire. Here are my questions:

1-Would it have been possible to solder since the short was right at the plug? From what Nissan tells me yes it was possible.

2-What affects could arise from them cutting it? Nissan told me it would build up resistence and that my check engine light would never go off until it was replaced.

3-Since they tried to correct my mass air sensor problem but ended up causing an even greater/more expensive problem, do you think I will have a chance in court?

Nissan specifically wrote:
(receipt 1)
"Wires were spliced from the mass air flow meter (unecessary). Wires were spliced with butt connectors. Wiring is exposed. Nissan tech states that air flow shiled wires can't be spliced. Need to replace EFI harness to replace wiring"

(receipt2)
"Tested original air flow meter, it failed. Diagnostic was correct but the air flow shield wires did nto have to be cut. Refer to original inspection. Need ot replace EFI harness est 1775.00 plus labor 1190.99 est"

Do not cut shielded wires they are expensive. Thanks for any replies in advance.

-Michael

 

bump bump bump

 

you get the same advice everyone else gets...

1. do not bump a thread after 19 minutes... this is not IM

2. it seems from the nissan report that the shop cut a wire they shouldn't have so they should be responsible. Good luck getting the shop to volunteer to pay to replace your wiring harness. The advice: small claims court. Get all evidence IN DETAIL, take it to the shop and ask them for what you believe you are deserved. If they say no, tell them you're filing in small claims court. Go to the court and get the paperwork and follow it EXACTLY!

You probably have to notify the shop by certified letter BEFORE you can file. Do that. The shop may then decide it's easier to fix it at their cost than have you win and have to pay real cost. If they don't, FILE and SHOW UP and state your case. Small claims is more about common sense than "strict law" so if your story makes sense, you'll win.

3. good luck.

 

http://www.enjetek.com/images/report_1.jpg
http://www.enjetek.com/images/report_2.jpg

Check those out. Also I did file for small claims because I went to the guy and he refused to talk to me. I also filed a complaint with the BBB [www.bbb.org - better business]. So are my chances in court good you think? Thanks.

-Michael

 

according to the reports you seem to have a good chance. Now, how are you at articulating yourself in front of a judge?

You have to be able to draw a straight line from

car working--shop working on it--wires cut--car not working--nissan says cut wires to blame.

you also have to think what they're going to say.. "he said 'I don't have a lot of money so do it the cheap way' and that was the cheap way" or something like that. AVOID THAT ARGUMENT!

Do not debate what you told them to do or not do. Explain the car worked when you left it and it doesn't now and their work is to blame. Explain you would not have told them to do something to your car that would result in disabling it, and when you said "install it" you DID NOT expect them to do something Nissan specifically says "DO NOT DO."

Did you sign anything before they did the work? After, when you picked up the car? ANYTHING?!? If so, read every word.

Not to be cocky but I'd win this one Good luck.

edit: you should also see if you can get a more detailed report (what's wrong, how the work SHOULD have been done, how much to fix their f--k up) from nissan. Get a real, official looking report, typed up and signed by the service manager. That would also help your argument a lot...ESPECIALLY if you can get the service manager to reiterate the wires should not have been cut, and sign it.

 

Thanks for the reply. When the situation presents itself, I belive I am able to articulate and present my ideas clearly and accurately. Your idea to basically state that the efi harness was damaged do to them cutting it is what my friends told me to do. Basically its 1)prove the efi harness is damaged 2) and then show its is damaged as a result of their work. Here is the story though:

At a light my car suddenly stalls, meaning it isn't driveable. They take in my car and inspect it. They tell me it's a bad mass air flow sensor so I tell them to fix it by replacing the mass air flow sensor. When I get it back they THEN tell me that spilced the wire and replaced the mass air flow sensor. I originally told them that I hd a bad egr solenoid and that they should possibly look into clearing it also. So when I pick the car up I ask why the light is still on and how I got the ecu to tell me it was my egr solenoid that was bad and the mechanic tells me that because of the bad mass air flow sensor the ecu did not know what error to throw so instead threw the egr one (which I thought in my mind "no way" and decided to go to Nissan and get it tested). I also wanted to test my mass air flow sensor because I thought they may have been trying to pull one on me. So as shown above those are the results of me visiting Nissan. I then go back to the station and they don't even look at my paperwork so I went to file at small claims. So to go aorund your idea:

car working--shop working on it--wires cut--car not working--nissan says cut wires to blame.

it would be:
car not working--shop working on it--wires cut--car working but elec. system is screwed--nissan says cut wires to blame.

The paperwork I signed at the station was for them to clear my egr solenoid hoses, which I highly doubt they did. They wrote it also did not idle. After picking the car up the recipt said that there was a short in a wire and that they used connectors to attach the mass air flow sensor with the wire.

As for your idea to get a more detailed report I will get started on it tonight and get it signed by Nissan. Thanks for that great idea.

On a side note the stupid owner told me some crap about how he was going to mention my car was bad before I brought it into the station, which would be my egr solenoid. Little does he know that when I left, remember what the mechanic said to me? He said it was fine and due to my mass air flow sensor going bad. Also, if it was bad, why didn't they fix it? Can you say mis-diagnosis again? Will that be relevent to say if he brings it up?

-Michael

 

I think you'll win. The only way that'll be relevant is he'll use it to say "it was broken when we got it and *HE* probably cut the wires before bringing it to us so it's not our fault."

He's not going to want to lose and pay, so expect him to outright lie. Can you *prove* they spliced the wire, or is it your word against theirs?

Did they write down that they spliced the wire? I know nissan wrote that the spliced wire is the cause of the problem, but if the shop didn't indicate they did it, the owner can always claim *you* did it and that's why it didn't idle and that's why you brought it in.

 

yes on their receipt they wrote down that they spliced the wire. this makes me feelmuch better knowing u have a case against them.

-Michael

 

OMG you're going to win this. You need to practice this until you can say it in less than 4 minutes. Have all the papers lined up and ready to hand out, have them stacked so they're easy to find, etc. Have 3 copies of each of the receipts you'll be using in court, highlight the specific areas for attention. Also bring the originals and DO NOT ALTER THE ORIGINALS! Copy them, then highlight on the copies. You're bringing 3 so you can hand one to the judge and one to the shop guy in the defendant box and have an extra, just in case.

Here is your whole argument...
- - - - - -
"The car was running rough/stalling so I brought it to (shop name) for them to diagnose and fix. We discussed some things for them to check but I never mentioned the sensor or wiring harness they ultimately spliced (show paperwork from drop-off where you discussed clearing the hoses).

"When I picked up the car they said they cut and spliced the wiring harness (show their paperwork when you picked up the car) and now the check engine light will not go off.

"I brought the car to Nissan and their report (show it) said "wiring can't be spliced and wiring harness needs to be replaced. That's why I'm asking for $1190 for Nissan to fix my car, plus $30/day for a rental while Nissan does that work."
- - - - - -

DO NOT get into details about solenoids, ECU, etc unless the judge specifically asks. This is one time when knowing too much can work against you. If you go in saying you know the code that was thrown and had them check the solenoid hoses because the mass air flow and ECU blah blah blah then it'll LOOK like you were f--king around in your engine and screwed it up, then brought it to this guy and that you caused the problem, not him.

Be ready to get into detail, but don't do it first... judges know law, not cars (mostly) so explain your side and only go into detail if the JUDGE asks. If the defendant asks you questions directly, ignore him or answer 'yes/no' if the judge wants you to. Basically you want the judge to think you're an idiot and your car ran funny and you brought it in and the EXPERT (shop) damaged something he should have known not to damage.

And don't forget to ask for the rental money, plus whatever salary you make in a day...it's the shop's fault you had to miss work, right? You won't get it if you don't ask, and the worst you'll get is a 'no' from the judge.

Also, be ready for the shop owner to say something like "there was a short in a wire and we used connectors to attach the sensor with the wire. HE (you) cut the wires before he brought the car to me, I just used the connectors to try to fix what HE cut." How can you refute that?? Have something ready, like "I didn't even know where those wires were before he told me he cut them and spliced them as you can see on HIS report" ... or something ... just be ready for him to lie.

That's as much as I can help. And remember, I'm not a lawyer so don't sue me if you don't win

One last thing, but you actually might want to do this first... go to your town hall and see if the shop owner has any outstanding liens on his property. If he does, you might want to mention that if the judge rules in your favor (only AFTER he rules). Mention "I checked at the town before coming here today and he has xx liens, so how am I going to collect?" Then let the judge figure out what to do. But in reality if this guy has some liens, he's not going to pay you even if you win...so it's up to you... Is it worth doing this if he's not going to pay? But we're getting ahead of ourselves here... see if he's got any liens first.

 

thanks. i will be checking about the lien today. btw its 1775 for the part + 1190 for labor. mucho damage he did but we'll see. the official report is being typed up, so i have work to do. thanks.

-Michael

 

update this thread or PM me when you're done...I'd like to know how it turns out.

 

hey thanks again 2k2 for your help. here is the decision of the judge for my case:

http://enjetek.com/maxima/scan0014_resize.jpg

as for my car, it got into an accident because was a stop and didnt see me, so he went right into me.

http://enjetek.com/maxima/

those are pics of the accident. so once i get my car back, which will be 2-5 days depending on how they are doing, i will wait to see how this guy will pay me back. i never got around to checking on the liens because if figure if he cant pay me back they will screw up his credit, so i still wont feel too bad. my friend was telling me not to fix the efi harness because i planned on getting a turbo in the future, so the mas would be bypassed anyways. i will still check with nissan to see what they will say if i do not fix it. so heres my situation:

1-the accident helped to fix my bad bumper and lights, but too bad i did not get a kit

2-hopefully not fixing the efi harness will help to get me the turbo

its weird how bad things helped to fix up the car but thats how things go sometimes. i figure since i got screwed in both situations i should have some benefit right?

once again thanks for your help.

-Michael

 

That Nissan tech is full of bs. I had to cut and splice my maf wires and have no problems so far. This is required on the pfi turbo kit and I don't see anyone complaining. Guy also stated that the wire didn't need to be spliced - how can he state that when he didn't see the wires before it was cut and spliced. I think he was trying to sell you a big job. You shouldn't believe everything nissan tells you. You may have just sued this guy because of some bs you were told.

 

I agree, sometimes techs at the dealer (doens't matter which dealer Nissan, Ford, Toyota, etc) will hype up a report in the dealers best interest. Techs at the dealers have certain protocalls to follow, if a harnees is bad they don't cut and splice they replace the harness. The last thing Corp headquaters needs to hear is that techs are cutting and splicing harnesses unless it's a "approved" procedure. But if these same techs do side work at their home you better believe they will cut, splice, grind, pry, swap, pick, plug, whatever it takes to get the job done safely.

Regardless, the judgement was in his favor, good for him. Now the next step is collecting. Unless they want to play nice and cut you a check, collecting might be a hassle.

I'm more interested in what was the bigger more expensive problem that occured from the harness being cut/splice.

 

they stated that as a result of the spliced wire, my cel can no longer go off. also, they mentioned the wire building up resistence. it might not actullay be bs so we will see.

 

congratulations!

and i don't care if it's BS or not, if nissan said he shouldn't have cut/spliced the wire then he shouldn't have, and if some people have cut/spliced and it's working for them, good for them.

sorry to see about the accident. I hope it gets all fixed up and back on the road soon.

how was the guy when you won? Was he pis*sed? Did he say anything to make you think he wouldn't pay?

 

he did not seem p*ssed because he was a quiet guy, like one of those guys you cant trust. he was making up all of these excuses in court such as: aftermarket intake, egr solenoid, i pulled the wire, etc. a bunch of bs and he got what he deserved. i hope he doesnt pay so they start to liquidate his assets because on the back of the paper it sayd they can take his wages out, sell his property, etc like when people need to pay for something and the government is forcing them. he drives a mercedes so i hope he just pays up and doesnt appeal it because he will be losing more money with attorney fees. like i said before thanks 2k2 for your advice it me in planning for this case a lot.

 

Nissan also says aftermarket parts will destroy your car. Do you really follow everything nissan says? If you speak to 2 different techs working at different dealerships, they will contradict each other.

I'm just trying to tell enjetek not to fix the harness cause it's a waste of time and money. Use the money on something useful.