hey guys i worked all day into the night and put in my rebuilt vtc's .. i was so exited till i got it al lback together and turned the key. she cranks but wont turn over. any ideas ?? id like to not have to bring her to the shop. im pretty sure all the vaccumm lines were put back and definitly in the right place cause i tagged them all. when i crank the car light white smoke comes out of the filter. i checked spark and fuel they are ok. i dont think i messed up the vtc install they only fit one way. anyone do this before (vtc install) with similar results or maybe what ive done wrong ?

 

are you sure your timings correct if its off maybe the intake valves arnt closing at the right time and alowwing smoke back into the intake

 

Your timing may be way off (since someting comes out of the intake).

 

Very common problem when you pull the timing chain/belt.

I'd bet my lunch money on you having the engine one turn out of time. all the marks line up properly, but the valves are set for the intake stroke when the ignition and injectors think it's on the exhaust stroke. basically it's trying to run backwards, and you're pumping "exhaust" out your intake!

pull the timing chain off, turn the cams one full turn, then line it up and put it all back together.

it's a PIA, but gotta be done.

 

thats what i thought well i though it was the timing i just diddnt know how to fix it GOD I LOVE MAXIMA.ORG !!!! think ill donate more...so when i take her apart tonight i turn the cam with the vtc on it one full turn clockwise or counter clockwise ? do i turn both cams ( mean the front and back vtc attached cams) or just one of them. i hope this works...my wifes on her last straw..

 

That's the part I can't tell you. since I haven't tried to line up everything afterwards, I can't tell you which ones to turn.
the only engine I've torn apart was my old SOHC mitsu I4 engine. only one cam to turn, so I turned it once and was done.
in your case, I would guess you need to turn all 4 cams one full turn... might be something in the service manuals on it, but I can't look it up for you today.. in the middle of rebuilding the suspension on a neighbor's Lincoln Mark VIII. wheee!

 

thanks i guess it means a trip to the mechanic. and the mechanics bill ( OUCH !)

 

I don't know if this will help any. but this is the info I got from the cloyes book.
there are 12 rollers between the cam gear timing marks on top
28 rollers on the right side
30 on the left.
The bottom gear timing marks are supposed to be gold links
while the top timing marked links are silver.
This info is for the upper timing chains.
It's on page 44 of the 2002 cloyes catalog.
hope it helps somewhat

 

why dont you crank the engine to tdc and make sure the silver 'key's on the timing chain are lined up properly, then dial in the cam to its correct position.

also make sure that its at top dead center (tdc) and not 15-20* before tdc (btdc) when your doing the work. just an easy step to overlook sometimes.

good luck!

 

Gone- isn't your VE30DE-R a boat motor?

 

the problem is the cam can be one full turn off and throw everything to crap. even if all 4 cams are lined up properly, they can still be one turn off.

(I didn't say this, but) Give Kaleb a shout at courtesy and see if he can provide any into on it.. or Jeff92SE. I know Jeff's replaced/rebuilt his VTCs before, so oughta know how to put the chains back on.

 

so basically i need to realighn the timing. so i set the crank pulley marks at tdc (via chiltons) aligh the silver timing keys in the timing chain wiht the timing mark on the vtc or is it on the cam. where do i align the silver tining link with

 

nope, its a joke, its an engine shot of my car that was flipped.

I wish I had a boat, but you'd better believe it would be powered by a 318/340ci Mopar. (btw, I bled the mustangs brakes last night and took it around the block. Did some nice burnouts for what the 2.87:1 (or whatever it is) gearing it has). yay for the secondaries!!!

/OTness...

gowirelessnj, Let us know how if you've made any progress.

 

should be a dot/dimple on the gear itself

 

so if i align the crank at tdc the SILVER link on the timing chain with the dimple on the vtc the timing should be where it should be ??

 

you have three things on each side to align.
The top two are silver one on each.
the bottom gear is a gold link
Make sure to align all three

 

ill give it a shot i really dont have the money to send her to a mechanic. spent it on UDP, CAI, vtc's ect...so i HOPE ! that this works ill check the front side first its the easiest to get to. :::crosses fingers::::::

 

HELP !!!! i have it apart and i need to know what to align the silver timing link with is it the vtc camshaft or the other camshaft ?????

 

Should be 2 silver links. one for each CAM

 

Oh boy, you moved everything already?? Let me ask you this. Regardless of the bring links etc... did you remember to mark EVERYTHING before you took the VTCs off? Ie.. use some white out on the vtc assemblies, chain, exhaust sprockets and chain? If you did this, all you have to do is line up everything again. You don't even need to have it at TDC because everything will be the way it was. Of course the cams will move a bit because one lob will 1/2 around pushing a valve down but it doesn't move much and certainly doesn't move all the way around.

If you did NOT mark everything like I stated, you have some more serious problems. You didn't mess with the crank angle sensor did you? The thingie on the end of the front bank exhaust cam did you? In fact, that shouldn't matter I guess because it's keyed but I want to eliminate everything.

 

You SHOULD have a fsm, if not, look here(and dig around too)
http://www.cybrrpartspro.com/Chilton...61CH03_18.HTML
Did you mark the sprockets like this?

You can't really mark the bottom sprocket as you can't access it without taking out alot more crap.

 

If not, then you are going to have a hell of a time, putting the sprokets back on, getting the crank shaft timing mark on TDC on the compression stroke and then realigning all the cams again. Because when you turn the crank, all the chains are going to move also. When you originally put the engine on TDC, did the bright links align with the marks on the vtc and exhaust cam marks(like the picture?). I believe you can have the crank on the TDC mark twice but it will only align the VTC/exahust cam sprocket marks once. Because the crank turns at 1/2 the speed as the cams or something.

 

right i have it at top dead center - i also aligned the silver links with the timing marks on the sprokets - HOWEVER and this is a BIG however the rear bank of cams the one with the vtc on it has ALL broken roller rockers. because of the really screwed up timing they broke so i cleaned them up used a high power magnet and pulled all the metal out. now my question is do you think that the valves got bent in the process ?? i know how to align the timing now (crank at TDC - silver links lined up with marks on both srpokets) i got that however my BIG concern is that the valves are now bent, what do you think ??

 

the cam turns at half the speed of the crank.....

 

Holy Crap! All the little roller rockers were BROKEN!? You mean when you tried to start the car after replacing the VTCs?? They broke after that???!! How did you get all new roller rockers again? I think there is a very GOOD possibility that the valves are bent. At least right now, that's what I think. It takes ALOT to break on of those little things much less ALL of them.

 

all the roller rockers on the rear vtc attached cam were broken. i really hope they arent bent i have to order new ones tommorrow

 

Again, this happened AFTER you tried to start the car? ie.. they weren't bent when you took the cover off? Something is SERIOUSLY wrong if they bent AFTER you worked on the car.

 

Man are you F-ed. Now you gotta pull the head and do the valves and all that BS you may be better off finding a low mileage used motor.
BTW if you want I can get the valves

 

:smacks head smilie:

ok, I'm going to take some pics of my torn down engine... that means I have to put some of it back together (:smacks head smilie:)... now I havent exactly tried, but if you have broken our rocker arms, it might be time to invest in a new engine, because that probably means mr. valve has met mr. piston, and mr. engine isnt very happy. not to mention our head gaskets arent cheap. but lets not get tooo ahead of our selves, it might not be as bad as it seems.

what kind of reference materials do you have? FSM? Chiltons? Haynes? Mitchell? etc?

 

i dont have any of them i was going by the TSB from nissan and the chiltons online. funny thing is only those broke and yes i know the piston hit the valves thats why the rocker arms broke. im hoping the valves stood up i only cranked her twice and when she diddnt start and i heard the bang i let off. then i took her back apart and saw the rocker arms all over the place. they are like 28 bucks each and i need 6 of em so im gonna order the rocker arms and install them, then line the cams up the RIGHT way and see if she runs. if the valves stood up she should purr like a kitten if the valves are bent i assume it will not run or run like crap right ? i really dont wanna pull the head. its not like its the front head where it would be easier. its the rear head man what a biotch. im so annoyed i MISS my max !!!! SHIFT_broke

 

well i already have it apart so how much harder is it to get the head off and check the valves ? will i clearly see that they are bent ? are the valves hard to replace ? is there a way to check the valves w/o taking the head off ????

 

you could proboly do a compression check on the rear cylinders and if the compression is good there proboly fine but youed have to wiat till you get everything back together to do it

 

guess i need a special tool to do a compression check ? basically the valve covers would need to be back on right ??

 

Just a compression tester. and you CAN leave the valve covers off

 

sorry to say but I am almost positive that your valves are bent. It doesnt take much to bend a valve (only one crank will do it) and if it broke the rockers I am almost certain it bent the vavles. You are better off taking the head to a shop and have them replaced because they have to be lapped in. Also the valve may be bent just slightly and you may not be able to tell from looking at it...

Good luck...youre gonna need it unfortunately.

 

si i guesss there really isnt any chance at all that the intake valves made it through ok hu.... NAPA has a machine shop and the valves arent that expensive i guess i could take it there however what a pain in the A$$ to take the head out now, if they are bent slightly and i put it back together i guess it will blow the motor right ? so would have to order the intake valves, head gasket, and exhaust manifold gasket and rocker arms..

 

i would replace the exhaust studs while your at it if you havnt already it would be very easy to do it witht the head off

 

if your motor have some miles on it i would HIGHLY recommend getting a lower mileage used motor and drop it in. if you rebuild one head and not the other it might do funky things. also if you rebuild the heads it might lead to other problems down the line since your valves hit the pistons.

this is your very expensive lesson on doing something this big without a FSM that cost under 100 bucks.

 

1/2 the motor is paper weight...doing studs is probably one of the last things on his mind right now. but yes it's easier to do w/ the head(s) out.

 

what do compression testers run ? would autozone carry one....its supposed to be like 120 per cylinder right ? id like to get a used motor however i cant afford 1000 bucks right now the parts for this are 300 bucks valves rockers ect... i only broke the intake rockers on the back side. plus i dont have a motor crane or an engine stand. man this STINKS !!!!!!!!!1