OK...after a short discussion with a member after he told me that some of you guys in here run 300 - 400 HP's from your VQ's, I was directed to visit this forum. So guys, I'd like to know the A - Z for producing that kind of HP, what bolt-on power adder to avoid and what combination of power adders would get me closer to 300 - 400 HP's? I'm a newbie when it comes to FI and all these years of talking to many different people (not just in the org) about this, I got the impression that I have to fortify the engine first before even starting the FI processes. Also, how many miles is too many for FI? I was also told that some of you who are running big HP's are producing them off of the stock motor.

Thanks.

 

Try reading this section first.

 

I did say I'm a newbie to FI right? I actually started reading the threads and most of that stuff went over my head since most threads are posted regarding issues one is having so w/o a good understanding of the co-relations between certain components, it's pretty hard to understand the solutions offered in those threads.

 

Then I suggest you don't attempt to FI your car until you have a firm grasp on what you are doing. Or else you will be asking how to do a motor swap and where to get one.

 

Like I said in the first post. I just wanted a basic A - Z. I did not write that I am going to attempt it (read the first post again). I was just curious and wanted a basic understanding of it, how to prep the engine for it, and engine management ones the FI is being adapted to the engine. If anyone is just going to be sarcastic about it and not really be inclined to assist and provide some info, please keep your posts to yourself.

 

I apologize. Let me get on that detailed write up shortly. Keep watching this thread.

 

if you just want to know what bolt-ons will bring you to 300 - 400hp. try dyno forum and see everybody's number and their set-up.

btw, are we talking about 300hp at the crank or the wheel?

no offense. but a lot of your questions have been asked by other people in this forum. look around here and you will find answers.

 

Try this thread for some basic info on turbochargers. Basically I just read everything here, and eventually things started to make sense.

 

Ok, let me be the first to actually tell you what I've done...

You can check out my cardomain site for pics and details and all, but basically, I'm getting ~300hp to the axles/wheels.

Here's how I did it:
$teallin Supercharger kit (bought used) (yes, it's a $teallin, but the kit is actually a pretty decent product of theirs)
Cattman Headers
Cattman Catback Exhaust.

Those 3 should get you to the same hp range I'm in...

Also, I'm going to go with a 100 shot Naaawwwsss kit, when I can afford it...
That should push me up near the 400 mark...

good luck.

EDIT: oh yeah, I'm on stock internals too...

 

[maxi-overdose],

I'm more intrigued by stock motors (stock internals) producing those big HP's so my questions is obviously more directed at FI'ing (as I had already mentioned at post #1). And I'm referring to HP at the wheels.


JeffesonM, thanks for the link, I'll read up on it.


HNDA ETR,

Thanks, your post has helped a lot! BTW...nice set-up. I hadn't looked under the hood of a 5th gen Maxima and to my surprise the engine bay looks identical to the 4th gen. Since I hadn't been reading up on the 5th gens, because I have a 4th gen, I'm sure that although the engine bay looks identical, the engine is not a VQ30DE am I right? Which is probably why your engine puts out 222 HPs (not sure if crank or wheels) and that puts you at an advantage as far as modding is concerned. Also, how long have you been running with the SC (with stock internals)?

And for those with boosted 4th gens, how long have you guys been running with your FI system and stock internals? If anyone upgraded your engine internals, what key components are a must for upgrading?

 

95-99 have the VQ30DE which rated at 190 hp
2k-2k1 have the VQ30DE-K which rated at 227hp. Same 3 liter engine except for a different intake manifold.
2k2-2k3 have the VQ35DE, rated at 255. 2k4 are rated at 265.
All are crank ratings.
Some guys have been running their SC for many, many miles (like 50,000+) on the stock motor with no problems. I only know of one person that has upgraded internals, and if I'm correct, he's got forged rods and low compression pistons. Guys are pushing 400+ on stock internals.

 

Dayuumm!!! 400+ on stock internals. Thanks for all the info!

 

Ummm...Stillen is the only people who make a SC Kit for our cars.

If someone on this Forum says "SuperCharger" - then they're talking about a Stillen Kit. Unless you ocunt Craig Mack who put on a roots blower with alot of work - but his car is gone now.

400+ on stock internals has been done a few times on this board - It's really about balancing the A/F mixture more than anything - this car seems to be able, with proper tuning, to handle 450hp regularly on stock internals and 500 at short bursts. or that's how far it's been taken.

Noone has actually found a consistant HP limit on our engines that I know of. I believe Nissan says it's 500hp, but I forget where I heard that. But Nissan is tlaking crank hp, and we're talking wheel - so several people have already taken it beyond what Nissan says it can do.

I myself am pretty sure with my latest setup that went in a few days ago, I'll be at 350whp. But that's about as far as I'm willing to take it right now. Once I am used to driving this however, there's a Nitrous bottle sitting in the basement waiting for install.

 

I know you are talking about FI and I am sorry that I confused you by saying bolt-ons because I always consider SC as a bolt-on mod.

like I said....the answer to your questions are already here in this forum. you are not the first one asking this question.

here are your questions
1.what combination of power adders would get me closer to 300 - 400 HP's?
the answer is in dyno forum. just check out the setup of whoever's car is making more than 300whp. They are either, N20'ed, turbo, SC or combination of any of the above. well, we havent seen a turbo'ed and SC'ed maxima.

2.how many miles is too many for FI?
I have seen people asking this question at least 5 times in this forum. If you look around, you will find it. I would say do a compression test and oil report to see your engine condition.

3.I have to fortify the engine first before even starting the FI processes.
again....you can find out what happened to high boost peep's engine in this forum.

there's a lot of good info here. you have to do your homework first before we can help you.

 

Yes sir!!! I've been reading like crazy, mostly nights up until almost dawn. It's so easy to get sidetracked as you read one subject, MEVI, for example. And then someone mentions that FI would be the next step since MEVI is giving the engine capability to produce more useable torque at higher RPMs than stock intake manifolds. So now, I'm off to a different direction reading about FI's. It's like a candy store of info. Now I just finished reading about how Turbocharging works in auto.howstuffworks.com . Next subject is supercharging.



Iansw,

I just finished reading a thread where you were having problems starting your car after installing your supercharger and that your buddy was stumped and couldn't figure out why. You are running one crazy set-up. And now I understand (from reading auto.howstuffworks.com) why you are using a 300zx TT injectors because that's what I was wondering about and why you are using it as bigger superchargers demand more fuel to the mix, possibly more than what the stock injectors can deliver. Anyhow, the dialog that went on in that thread, between other members with FI knowledge, is what has impressed and intruiged me enough to spark an interest in how everything works. I'm also amazed at how the stock piston/piston rings, and rods can hold up within combustion temperatures and pressures well beyond imagination when the s/c or t/c is at work. How does s/c'ing or t/c'ing affect emissions?


BTW, how does a stock tranny hold up at 350whp or more? How can you fortify the tranny so that it won't get destroyed by the massive amounts of torque an s/c or t/c'd engine is producing?

 

[QUOTE=2DaMax]HNDA ETR,

Thanks, your post has helped a lot! BTW...nice set-up. I hadn't looked under the hood of a 5th gen Maxima and to my surprise the engine bay looks identical to the 4th gen. Since I hadn't been reading up on the 5th gens, because I have a 4th gen, I'm sure that although the engine bay looks identical, the engine is not a VQ30DE am I right? Which is probably why your engine puts out 222 HPs (not sure if crank or wheels) and that puts you at an advantage as far as modding is concerned. Also, how long have you been running with the SC (with stock internals)? QUOTE]

Thanks! I've only had the S/C for a couple months now... but no problems!

The only thing worthwhile with purchasing the S/C through Stillen, and not from Vortech, is the mounting plate and piping...

Everything else is off the shelf... also, if someone's going to intercool/aftercool their setup, the Stillen piping can go.... So IMO, the only unique thing about the Stillen kit, is the mouting plate...

 

I was wondering if you have any photos of your setup showing how the pipes are routed. I am not sure how the s/c is piped into the engine.

 

Have you looked at the SC installation guide? The pics in there should give you an idea of how its routed:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=168292

 

You'd be amazed by the VQ. It is extreme well built to start off with. IIRC, not sure where I heard it from, but the motor was built in a way to easily handle 500hp as is. There is a lot of techniques used in the production of that motor that you'd find in the racing world.


We yet to find out on his car since Washington State does require emission on cars 97 and older every 2 years.

I'm assuming your talking about a 5-speed. Well in short, the tranny can hold 350whp. However, the life of the tranny will most likely be reduced. When your pushing that type of power, you have to be smart. You don't want the car doing a lot of axlehop, and just don't do stupid stuff. You will also need to invest in things like a ACT clutch, maybe some axles from Raxle (not really neccessary, but a thought). Also you want to use synthetic gear oil. We use Redline MT90 in Ian's car. It works fairly well. And change your gear oil on a more often than regular basis.

If your talking about an auto, you definately need to get that reinforced. You want a tranny cooler (Hayden units seems to popular), and some sort of VB mod, albeit level 10, etc (I personally like the MobileTek ones).

My 2 cents.

S

 

Plain and simple,

stillen kit or turbo kit, youll need 9.5-10PSI
SAFC tuned
Free flowing exhaust
MEVI

that will put you above 300HP

 

Yep - What JAY25 Said.

And maximase86 - I have passed emmissions before with the SC - just don't know if I will this year because of the JWT/300z Injectors.

 

Yeah....that's pretty questionable if you will pass because of how rich it is. Can't exactly do the "dump techron in the tank" and "drive the car a ****load before emissions" with how rich it is at idle. :P

S

 

I know my emissions went up only slightly but I still passed AirCare with the Y-pipe and SC and still running rich.

 

i still dont think a stock auto would be able to handle over 300+WHP on a daily basis with just a tranny cooler and Valve Body mod

if you want to learn about biult autos for a max look in this thread

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=277647

the only problem is they cost about 3500$ where as with the 5spd all you need is a 350$ clutch

 

i was running stock eternals all the way up to 300 hp.. with bolt ons..
with no problems.. i went eternal only because my racehead boys wanted to drop some more hp in now i can boost 20lbs if i had to...
uhm.. and maybe i will. compliments of (vinny ten).

here are some of the ways to add hp to your vq
supercharger
turbo
nitrous
exhaust
computer
using these with the right combo could lead to something ugly...

 

No doubt, but those would definately help than nothing at all. If anything, I'd say convert to a 5-speed or go buy a 5-speed max before you go FI. I rather not have an auto with boost in my own personal preference.

S

 

Where does the "Stock VQ30 can handle 500hp" statement come from??

I've seen it twice in this post (iansw and maximase86) but have never seen the original documents where nissan stated that.. just curious what your actual source is

I'm obviously making more than that (quite possibly even at the wheels) on stock motor, but as I look into a new project making considerably more power from this motor it makes me curious if nissan ever actually stated that or if its just people quoting someone who said something who....


If you want 300hp and be done, supercharger & mods is one option.. but remember the law of diminishing returns - you'll want more in the fuutre. With that in mind, go turbo from the start.

btw i made 476whp & 501tq @ 10psi on a stock motor (over 100k miles), stock injectors, stock tranny. One thing I don't like? stock tranny!

 

i hear that a lot from you turbo guys... but i know somebody with a s/c max where the sky,s the limit.. your right when you say you never get enough once you start.. but when i know diffrent i will defend it. turbo or s/c feed till your hearts content..

 

i agree with you 100% if your boosting for pleasure of driving GET A 5SPD

if you want a hard core drag car get an auto or at least that what everybody else says although i would still rather have the 5spd

 

Great info all. I guess my Maxima is just a sitting rocket waiting to be unleased! All I gotta do is have the guts and the pocket to dive into FI'ing. Most likely, whenever I decide to go for it, I'll be supercharging since I didn't want the lag from a turbo charger. Unless I get a 2 stage setup but I'm not sure if there'll be enough room in the engine compartment for that. I also have a 5 speed, and have been using Redline MT-90 since I bought the car last July. So a clutch upgrade is all I'd need then. How often would you recommend changing the tranny oil for preventative maintenance? BTW, couldn't the ECU manage the emissions part?

iansw, what are you going to do if your car doesn't pass emissions with the 300z tt injectors? I thought the JWT is emissions approved, perhaps if not boosting?


JAY25,
So at a typical 6 to 8 psi of boost, you get a 30- to 40-percent improvement. Which means that at 9.5 - 10 psi, your probably at 50 to 60 percent right? So that's around 300hp at the crank? Plus exhaust and ECU setup. I can see now how it's possible to be at least 350whp.

Again, thanks to all those who shared good info. I just might turn my Maxima into a project vehicle. It'll probably by later part of the year since I just opened up a store and that would take most of my time for now.

 

WHOA!!! That's just from the t/c? Or that's combined with exhaust, ECU, etc? Why did you say to go for turbo first and how did you compensate for the lag?

 

I can't remember where I got that from Hal. However, I think it's safe to say your car has easily proven that. I'll see if I can dig something up.

S

 

476whp 505tq is from t3/t4 turbo 10psi and nitrous. I have a factory ecu (no afc) and factory exhaust with a cutout. Also I now am back up to 14psi...

There has been a trend of supercharged maxima owners selling their superchargers to go turbo. I say go turbo from the beginning so you don't buy the sc, install, and then uninstall and buy turbo. If you can be happy with sc power, then by all means get it - it's cheaper! Also, I defeat lag by having a t3/t4 turbo. My car makes full boost before 3000rpm and has almost no lag.

C MAX: a stillen supercharged max? bc from my understanding mardigras was actually overspinning his at 14psi, how is the sky the limit there? When the most powerful sc max is at 14.x psi and my car is at 10psi , I make 126wtq more than the sc granted we are both spraying
Not to mention the hp comparison psi vs psi from sc to a well-sized turbo. Turbo wins hands down, usually across the band too, so that eliminates the lag argument.

 

cool, thanks! I truly am curious

 

Typical cars usually change every 30k miles or so. I would say at least cut that in half so your doing a minimum every 15k miles or every 4-5 oil changes if you change your oil every 3000 miles. As for the clutch, definately doing a clutch upgrade is a must. While you have it apart you probably want to also consider install a lighten flywheel as well, like a Fidenza. Also should do some tranny seals while your at it.

The ECU should be fine for Emissions, but the problem is 1, Ian is using a 95 ECU in his 97, and it's throwing a code. IIRC its for an EGR solenoid too, which is an emissions related part. I believe on newer cars, State Emissions requires that a code reader or something be plugged into the OBDII port. During the test the car shouldn't be throwing any codes (not 100% sure about this). 2, he's running the 300z tt injectors, and the car seems to be running rich at idle, which could cause him to fail emissions. We'll have to see. I think that for what your planning to do though, you should be fine and have not problems with emissions. Ian was fine before he did some of the more bigger upgrades to his car (ECU, injectors, smaller pulley, etc).

S

 

maximase86,
Now I'm really happy I own a 95 SE.

hlh0501,
t3/t4 turbo, do you have a website you can direct me to? It's funny you mentioned nitrous because I was just thinking about it while having brunch. I guess timing is the key for squeezing out nitrous as your engine runs boosted. Now, I'm really amazed....turbo/nitrous on stock engine internals, ECU, exhaust. I'm assuming you have no emissions issues, which is probably why you stuck with stock exhausts and ECU to begin with? I'm definitely skipping the y-pipe and ECU upgrade, and perhaps just go with a catback for better exhaust flow w/o eliminating the pre-cats (for emission reasons). Now you've taken me to the next level hlh0501. I'm assuming that by going turbo you can keep adding up HP by adding/changing the turbo unit itself w/o having to tear everything else apart such as the piping. In order to make an s/c produce more HP, you have to tear everything out because of the unit's design and engine integration. Am I correct on these assumptions? BTW, at how many miles did you install your turbo setup on your engine and when did you add nitrous after?

**EDIT**
One more question hlh0501, how did your car pass the visual inspection with a nitrous setup? Thanks a bunch.

 

Yeah there is limitations. I know Vortech says their S/C's can do 20+ psi, but I'd like to see how they do that with max RPM's they listed because. Ian is running a V2 with a 2.87 pulley making 12 psi, and blower is maxed out on RPM's. In fact with 7200rpm rev limiter, he says when he get up to about 7000 rpms or so, the blower begins over-revving. Granted Vortech says you can overrev the blower, but only in short bursts, not prolong times. Maybe from different inlet and outlet sizes and compressor blade sizes? I dunno.

S

 

Oh yeah, just a little thing to point out. It's not NOS, it's nitrous. NOS is one of many manufacturers that produce nitrous kits. I'm glad you have a 95 SE, cuz I'm sad I have an 86 SE. Well not that sad...it can fend for it's own fairly well. I could do turbo, but....well it's an 86...and it's got more miles the majority of the people in this forum....and in most cases..double to triple the mileage.

S

 

Ok, nitrous. What's a good manufacturer? I heard NX = nos express is pretty good.

 

That's would be another thread and a long discussion....might wanna check out the nitrous section for that.

S