I know there's been a LOT of discussion on a rear BBK out here, and I've been doing some research on it.

we can go basically 2 or 3 directions. (I'm going to ignore the 3rd for the time being)

1. Custom made 13" rear rotors, stock calipers (with a relocation bracket).
This is going to run in the ballpark of $600, due to the cost of the custom rotors.

2. Custom made 2-piece 13" rear rotors with 300ZX rear calipers and a wilwood mechanical parking brake. This is MUCH more complex and is going to run in the neighborhood of $1400-1500.

3. Same as #2, but with other aftermarket caliper, such as Wilwood, PLUS the parking brake calipers.


Unfortunately, there simply isn't room to use the drum-type parking brake that's used in the 300ZX brake system or many other of the cars out there. just not going to work, due to the design of the rear suspension. I tore apart a 5th gen and did the measurements on it yesterday.

So, what do you guys want?

I'm leaving town for a few days, but Mike (kwd2kse) will be able to answer many of your questions, as I'm using his car for the prototypes and he's up to speed on the options and issues.

 

Is there any option for using an oem style rotor?

This would reduce cost alot. For example the Infiniti FX uses 12.6 x 1.1-inch ventilated discs / 12.1 x 0.6-inch ventilated discs.

I don't know if the rear caliper on a Maxima has enough space for a .6" ventilated disc. But if it does it would be a good package for a low cost brake upgrade. A 12.6" 2k4 maxima rotor with stock caliper for the front and a 12.1" for the rear.

Aftermarket rotor companies like rotora or powerslot will probably make replacement rotors for the FX sooner than the 2k4 Maxima as well.

 

Does the rear brake system really become a problem after a front-end BBK is installed?

i.e. if you have a good front-end BBK, do people tend to start noticing problems with the rears (i.e. rear rotors warping, etc) due to the change in braking balance? Or does the addition of a front-end BBK help out the rears?

 

I spent the better part of 1/2 a day measuring every rotor on the Nissan lot this week, and also researching the Infinity rotors also. Also spent time with Matt with my left rear brake system completely disassembled. Keep in mind the stock 5th Gen Max rear rotors are 10.95" diam and 9mm, or .35" thick. The rotor channel in the rear caliper is only 13mm, or .51" wide - at its WIDEST point. In addition, the stock rotor offset is 45mm, measured from the front hub(part that your wheel mounts to), to the back side of the wear surface that the pads contact. The center hub opening in the rotor is approx 68.1mm with a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

The only rotors that were larger than 11.5" diam. and the correct bolt pattern and hub size, were the Murano, FX35 and FX 45(all have 12.1" diam and 15.25mm thick), 350Z track model(12.7" diam and 22mm thick) with the Brembo brakes, and the Infinity G35 Coupe(13.06" diam and 22mm thick) with the Brembo brakes. Even though the bolt pattern and hub size is a match on all of these, the smallest offset on any of these is 63mm. In other words, it pushes the back side of the rotor 18mm further toward the center of the car. With the large offsets of these rotors, they would all make contact with the bottom, or lowest, part of the rear beam axle, closest to the back of the rotor There simply is not enough room for this big an offset rotor. At this point, wether they would fit in the 300ZX rear caliper rotor channel is a mute point. So all of the stock Nissan rotor possibities are dead.

 

Glad you're staying up with this thread Mike. I didn't even notice it was here.

I personally am up for the stock caliper and 13" rotor system. $600 is definately my friend right now. Plus the brake lines I got with Matt's front kit would continue to work. It was the original idea to begin with. I just think it would be the best option for the money.

-David-

 

Matt and I are still researching rear brake options that don't cost a king's ransom. By far the biggest problem at this point is the rotor. So far all the one piece are too much offset, or not large enough diam., or both. The two piece rotors, the outer wear surface ring, are plentiful and reasonable cost. The killer is the hat. Running into nothing but dead ends finding something that is not custom made and has the right offset, hub bore, and bolt pattern. But I REFUSE to give up. I still want the 300ZX rear calipers to match the front.

 

13" is OVERKILL. Our brake bias is around 70/30(f/r) The stock rotors are already almost 11". Doing a 12" rear kit would be nice, just to fill up the space for people with rims and stuff.

 

a bigger rear rotor with stock calipers would be good....

anyway to get a deal on both front and rear if you were to buy them each?

I'll be looking to get the whole front kit from you in the near future. With the alum. 300ZXtt calipers.

 

Well...as a future customer, i would definatly rock a set of 300zx calipers front and rear. It looks awesome, performs way over par, and even 300zx people would be jealous

 

do you guys think 13" rear rotor would be overkill? i really want a big brake kit for the rear but my main purpose is braking and not looks. i have no info to support this but id think something in the range of 12-12.5" would be a better choice for the rear.

 

I'll try to answer these the best I can. Matt has the engineering degree and can do all the calculations on F/R brake bias, line pressures, what different piston sizes & rotor diam make, and all that other stuff. I can only tell if it works on the car from my experience and quote the #'s he showed me.

First on the looks department. I fully agree with chinaonnitrous1. Front & rear 300ZX calipers would look AWESOME, but the rotor is an issue as noted in my post above. I'm still working on it. And for the people that know me, they know I'll research it to death and will have all possible solutions covered. The scenario in the poll is the upper limit on price. I'm looking for something lower. Also when you look at the car from the side with the front brake kit and the 12.6" 2004 Maxima rotors, a rotor sized between 12.25" and 13.0" for the rear would look OK, with 12.5" or 12.75" being the best in the LOOKS dept. The front calipers are so huge, it would distract from a minor size difference.

The 13" rotors Matt got quotes on were two fold. First, its the MOST common size for the custom brake manufacturers when you want custom work. Not only, but most - and easier to use as a starting point for pricing negotiations with them. Second, it is definately the upper limit on size that we would consider using. Not only, just upper.

Now the part that can get me in trouble - F/R brake bias. Matt has the calculations for this. The things that make the biggest difference in order from most to least that we will address with front and rear kits - total piston area(not just # of pistons, but size of them also), brake pad size, rotor diam.

Here are approx #'s starting with stock and then changes one at a time, all on the same 2000/2001 Maxima. Everyone will quickly see the biggest factor is not rotor size, its the caliper that plays a much bigger role.

Stock F/R brake bias is approx 73%/27%
w/300ZX front calipers & 12.6" rotors, approx 85%/15%
w/stock rear caliper & 13" rear rotor, approx 83%/17%
w/stock rear caliper & 12.25" rear rotor, approx 83.7%,16.3%
w/300ZX rear caliper & 13" rear rotor, approx 65%/35%
w/300ZX rear caliper & 12.25" rear rotor, approx 66%/34%

For those that do not know, stock brake system calipers are 1 piston, both front and rear. Front 300ZX calipers are 4 piston - 1.58" diam each. Rear 300ZX calipers are 2 piston - 1.50" diam each.

99% of the drivers would not pay any attention to the bias differences, its going to be cosmetics/looks that make the difference. And for us 2k/2k1 people, not having to deal with the pitiful stock brakes any more, warped rotors, etc. For guys looking for performance on a budget and having a ton of options on pads for the 300 calipers, ease of getting pads locally, this is the way to go. A little more brake bias to the rear over stock is OK, since the stock settings could be set a little more to the rear anyway, but you don't want to get down to 45% or 50% rear. Anyone who has the rear end lock and swing out on them knows what I mean.

Ok, I listed all the #'s, Matt can shoot me when he gets back in town now.

 

interesting, honestly i belive that anyone whos interested in a Rear BBK is gonna spend money. Not every enthusiast is gonna want one, mabey some show people. But a Rear BBK for most people is just gonna look awesome. So I belive 300zx setup in the rear is gonna be what most hardkore / show people want.

 

I agree, my 1st preference is the rear 300 caliper. Not only will it look best with the 300 fronts, but it's an excellent setup with F/R bias in mind. It will almost certainly take a two piece rotor to make it work, but I still have not found an off the shelf hat with the right offset to make it work - but I'm still researching. An off the shelf hat would also help bring down the cost of the rears too.

 

so right now the main issue is finding a rotor with all the write bolt patterns and offset and diameter.

but I thought the rear 300zx calipers use a different form of parking brake, so we will have problems making it work on the maxima.

 

since the 300Z uses the drum parking brake setup, how will you get the parking brake to work in the Max? anyways, still interested...ive talked to Matt before and offered to help with test fitting and other stuff on my Max.

 

The parking brake system from the 300ZX is not going to work. With the drum, the offset is too big, puts the back side of the rotor in to the axle-same problem with rotors from the 350Z, G35C, Murano. But what will work is what Wilwood calls their "mechanical spot caliper". Its made specifically for people going to go with rear big brakes and still needing a parking brake. The idea behind it is a small mechanical caliper, about 3 wide wide, lever actuated by the parking brake cable. Pull up on the parking brake, pulls the lever to squeeze the parking brake pads to the rotor. Let down the parking brake, the lever releases the pads from the rotor. It is a separate unit that would sit along side the 300ZX caliper. Makes the bracket a little more complicated to make, but that's where a good fab shop comes in-and Matt has one. People would have the option to get it with the 300ZX caliper package. I think it would be a must have.

 

humm...so there would be 2 calipers on the rotor? 1 smaller then the other? wonder what it'd look like...never seen one before.

 

my vote would be for a 12 inchish rotor... 13 inch rotor would look too big... it should be slightly smaller to give the front rotors a larger look

 

also, i know someone brought it up, but would it be possible to put a 300zx front caliper on the rear brakes???

 

holy cow, i don't think i'd want that. I'd imagine there would be huge clearance issues. Plus then matt will still have to use the wilwood "spot caliper" to utilize the parking brake... make the rear just a mess

 

using the Z32 front caliper on the rear would not be a very good idea. it would throw brake bias WAAAY off, due to the huge mismatch in piston area over what's currently in there.

You still have the parking brake to worry about also, which is where I am concentrating currently. the way the rear beam is designed, it really interferes with using a drum-type parking brake. That would be the best option, but I just don't think it's going to work.
one of those deals where I need to tear apart two cars and see if I can make them stick to the rear axle somehow.
I'm also looking at several other sources for parts and such, and I will definitely update if I find anything worthwhile.

 

I like the idea of OEM caliper with bigger rotors. I do agree that 13" is going to be overkill plus it might look funny. Something alittle smaller would be ideal and we might save some money going with smaller rotors.

 

On the cosmetics, keep in mind that the factory caliper is tiny compared to the 300Z caliper, so that even a 13" rotor in the back will look nearly the same size to the front because the caliper is so much smaller.

 

a 12.2 inch, vented rotor...using the stock calipers would be all that is needed IMO

the biggest problem with our rears (4th-5th gen, not sure about 3rd gens) is that they are a solid rotor. I think even a stock sized rotor that was vented (.81 thickness) would make a huge improvement

 

im juss curious why people want a rear brake upgrade? correct me if im wrong but seems like most people want it for looks vs performance? i want it because of performance but looks is a plus tho.

 

I want performance

 

is the 300szx rear brake 2 or 1 piston?

 

2 piston.......

 

well if you can get the rear 300zx calipers to work with the parking brake and for a decent price that'd be awesome.

 

The problem with that is that you simply can't cram a vented rotor inside the factory calipers without grinding..
3rd gen rotors are just a hair smaller (about 3/4") than 4th and 5th gens, but the rotor thickness and offset are exactly the same. I was able to convert to Z31 rear rotors and keep the stock caliper. fixed most of my brake bias problems, but it's still very front-heavy.

the other issue is brake bias. using the stock rear calipers and the 300ZX calipers up front, you've got a HUGE front bias.
The theory that you want more front bias with a BBK is a bunch of bunk. the car does NOT stop in any shorter distances with a BBK up front-- at least until the brakes are hot enough to have problems with pad or fluid fade.. While the brakes are at normal driving temps, your stopping distance is limited ONLY by your tires, not the brakes (you can lock up your brakes, right? that's the tires not stopping you.. the brakes still have lots of room before they stop clamping harder).

The reason for going to a BBK is two-fold. First is obviously performance. You won't get shorter stopping distances, but you will get better heat capacity and cooling. That's where a quality rotor, caliper, and bake pad come in. Second issue is the cosmetics- that's where the huge rotors are involved. Since everyone is running 17, 18, 19, 20" rims now, the stock 11" rotors just look dinky. for everyday driving, they're still up to the task.


As for updates on how things are going.. I'm going to borrow a friend's Z32 and start tearing apart the rear suspension on both cars and see what I can come up with. Ideally, I'd like to use the Z32 caliper and retain the drum parking brake. If that doesn't work, then I will look at other options, which include custom rotors, calipers, etc to make them work.

 

Great work so far guys! Personally I would want it for looks and performance to match up with my front BBK.

For the sake of making a kit that is more reasonably priced and more accessible to more people, I would prefer one that uses as many stock Nissan/Infiniti components as possible. Using the Wilwood type stuff just makes it way to pricey imo.

 

From what I can see, bigger rotor 12-13"
relocate caliper further up and forward, make an extension on brake line bracket and e-brake lines so they are secure. I know findinga rotor is a PITA.
I think I read eclipse brakes are similar to ours ?

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.co...e.mgi2#23GRear

Maybe this might help resource down a solid rotor for your project.

 

I'd be looking at F/R BBK matching kit with parking brake.

AA

 

back from the dead!!!!!!!

 

I just had a thought since someone brought this thread back. If the Murano rotors are the closest fit but just a tad too thick, couldn't the rotor just be cut down by, what, 2-3 mm? then it would fit? Would that 2-3 mm be detrimental to the structural integrity of the rotor? Is it a vented rotor? If the rotor can be cut, then all we would need is a braket to move the caliper out too, right?

 

oops, nevermind, I just read it again.. my bad... the rotors stick too far toward the center of the car... I'm sure someone would have thought about cutting the rotor earlier if the offset was fine....damn

 

Hey guys... I've had a kit using the 300ZX rotors and calipers for well over a year now.
http://blehmco.com/rear_kit.htm

 

LOL. Thanx! We'll be sending u pics soon... the fronts barely clear.
Jae

 

ive read that u can use a line lock to act as a parking brake. that way ud be able to use pretty much any caliper back there and still have an e-brake. altho i figure that would be much more expensive.

 

nope. legally, you MUST have a parking/emergency brake that is completly independent from the main hydraulic system. thus, if your master cylinder fails you will still be able to stop the car. a line lock relies on you engaging the brakes with the pressure built up from the master cylinder. the line lock then engages and locks the pressure in the hydraulic lines.


sooo, if the MC fails, the line locks don't work. not legal for use on a street car as the secondary brake system.