I know I can find out when I actually go to do this, but I want to ask ahead of time so I know how gentle (or not) I need to be on the front control arm bushing, since I'll probably be drilling and carving it out instead of torching.

When replacing the front bushings with Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings, do you still cut and remove the outer metal bushing sleeve, or do I need it?

I'm just wondering because the 4DSC article is written for replacement with an OEM rubber bushing (which has a new sleeve), and I read about instances of installing poly bushings where you need to re-use the outer shell....

I don't think you need to keep it, and you just slide the new bushings in after prying/chiseling it out, but I want to make sure first.

 

just do whatever you gotta do to remove that outer sleeve. it's not needed with the ES bushing install.

trust me though, it's easier to burn the center bushing out and use a hacksaw to cut into the outer bushing then pound it out that way. trying to drill and cut and carve that thing out will be a nightmare. I've tried it.

 

hey matt, what happened to the write-up you did showing how to modify the 4th gen bushings to work?

 

http://mattblehm.com/pics/car/suspen...ed_bushing.jpg
http://mattblehm.com/pics/car/suspen...ve_bushing.jpg
there's the drawings I made. I'm not about to go through the rest of all that BS again.

 

If you ever feel like doing it again
I'll host it

 

Brian just pointed me to this thread. I got mine today from him and am in the same boat as you bman.

How about cliff notes matt, or just an outline without in-depth explanations?

 

Okay, that's exactly what I needed to know. I'm going to try and cut the bushing out with a hobby coping saw and see how that works. Thanks... you goof.


The how-to article I was talking about is this one:

http://www.4dsc.com/articles/suspens..._bushing.shtml

and maybe Matt meant this thread (about the sleeve removal and bushing mod):

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=287083

There isn't much of an actual writeup that I've ever come across, and I guess you just have to eyeball the rear bushing to cut it.

 

Burn them out, I made a big mistake of attempting to cut them out and wasted roughly 6 hours of my day

 

Thank you Thank you!
I needed that link, now they're in my favs, so the next person to ask me about it I can give an Intelligent answer too.

 

No problem.

I've got all my favourite articles like that one saved on my PC.

 

Well, after dragging my feet on this project I'm about ready to start hacking at the rear bushing to modify it to fit. The only thing is, I think I've encountered some issues.


1) OE bushing is slightly asymmetrical, and has one of the diagonal cuts steeper than the other side. Not sure if that's because my bushings are both deformed, or if it's supposed to be like that... I keep forgetting to look under the car at the point where the bushing mates with the underbody, but I hope this isn't too critical (?).

2) ES bushing, once cut, will make control arm pivot sit about 5-7mm higher. I guess that's okay, since people are already running this setup...

3) Biggest problem I see: ES bushing has a larger diameter on the round side than the OEM bushing and I can't make the bracket fit over it while I was test fitting it. It looks and measures close, but when you line them up and eyeball it, I think I'm going to have to shave a few mm off each side of it to make it fit? How'd you guys deal with this?


These bushings seem to require a lot more modification to work than I had been expecting... just about the only thing that is compatible seems to be the length and (maybe) the pivot hole. If I had to do this over again, I'd be tempted to just pay the $$$ and get the direct fit Noltec or Whiteline bushings - for the rear anyway. Too bad they're not the graphite impregnated type though.

Thanks (again) guys.

 

or you could take it to a shopand just have them press those suckers. i just removed both the arms and the removed and pressed the other bushings in for like 40 bucks.

 

Just trim the ES bushings with a bench grinder until they fit right. When I did mine I only made one diagonal cut per bushing and it seems to fit better anyway. I also put the control arms on the bbq grill to burn the old bushings off and it was so easy.

 

The poly bushings dont have to be pressed in

 

thats good to know.

 

just shave the three angles off the Es bushings like I told you. then put 'em on the car.. when you're bolting in the rear, it will take some effort to get the rear bushings in there, but just keep cranking on the bolt. the urethane will compress and conform to the hole. I just went to town with my impact wrench.. got a few turns on each bolt until it was all the way in there. easy stuff.

 

Heheh, I had a sneaking suspicion that's what you'd say. Okay thanks Matt and 505max94se for your input.


Now to get the REST of that one freaking sleeve off the gusset...

 

hehehe.. time for the dremel, blowtorch, and channel locks.

 

I had some extra time at my dad's place and I've had my extra set of LCA sitting in the trunk for about two months. I decided to screw with this for the sake of a post.

I tried using a puller but I got unconfortable with with the amount of stress I had to apply to the puller. And unless you actually rip the rubber, it will just go back into it's original position. So that was a no go.

I tried cutting the inner metal metal with a sawzall. I worked. But it didn't do anything to help me remove the bushing. So seeing that I would have to whack the rubber( ) until the cows came home, I saw that I had a propane torch sitting here. So what the hell huh? hehe. So I lit that **** on fire(per Matt's instructions). Actually other than the smell, there wasn't much smoke at all. And after a bit, it self burns. So after poking/prodding/prying the inner steel sleeve for 4 min, it just pries out. Pretty easy with a large screwdriver or something. Then you just let the **** burn for a few min and scrape the rest of the rubber out. Then I used the sawzall to make one cut into the outer sleeve. As Matt said, be carefull not to cut into the arm itself. It's easy to do and it's hard to tell how far you actually cut. I got lucky as I was checking, I pried up one side of the sleeve. Then pounded a screwdriver in there to pry up the rest. It was already cut all the way. As I was doing this, the sleeve started sliding out of the arm so I just tapped it the rest of way out.

So burning the bushing out is by far the easiest/fastest way to do it.

Question. How do you get the other bushing off? Just hammer it off the end? Cut it?

BTW. Bman, my ES bushings came with 2 big washers per side. Thanks for mentioning this. I tested fitted the bushings. I wished they fitted a bit tighter but I guess it's the way it supposed to fit.

 

Jeffy.. the best way I've found to burn the bushing out is to aim the torch INSIDE the steel sleeve, at a bit of an angle so it heats the sleeve directly. the flam will actuall curl down the inside of the sleeve.. really neat to watch. usually it takes about 2 min of heat for that and it will melt the rubber against the sleeve all the way through, I just push on the sleeve from one end with a screwdriver, and the sleeve just slides out.


to remove the rear bushing.. there's a few layers of metal in it.. there are two small "ears" on the end where you need to attach the puller. grind those off with a bench grinder, then grab the inner metal piece with the puller and start pulling. comes right off.

 

Is the picture you provided before of the cut rear ES bushing to scale? ie.. Can I print it and used as a templete?

 

No.. I just drew some crap in autoCAD to make it look pretty.

I just pull off one of the stock bushings and cut/grind until they match up.
line up the holes in the center, then use a marker or something to draw the outline on the 3 edges. don't worry about the curved end.

 

Thanks. I was going to send them but I thought I'd take a shot at it for kicks. Turns out to be fairly easy.

 

yup... if you've got a big enough hammer, everything is easy.

 

BURN...BURN...BURN SOME MORE!!!!! HACKSAW SAW...SAW...SAW...SOME MORE..You can put em in with a bench vice..no press needed.....good luck

 

I put them in with my fingers

 

Yeah I found the same thing. I stuck a big bolt into the sleeve and tried pressing it out, but like you it only stretched the rubber and did nothing. I ended up cutting through the sleeve with a hacksaw, scraping some of the rubber out, and then (carefully) cut through the outer sleeve. I found that an open hacksaw let me be more precise near the end because with a normal closed frame hacksaw you tend to cut the outsides first and less in the middle. I used the open hacksaw to saw in the middle more and then used a small cold chisel to punch the strip out. On one of my bushings I managed to whack it out with a punch while trying to get the strip out. Yes, this was all quite time consuming....

The large bushing on the end is probably the ONLY part I did easier than you guys! I took my 3 jaw gear puller and put the jaws together so that one was shorter than the others and put the short one over that metal tab on the bushing. Then I just cranked the bushing off quickly and without damage.

The front bushings on mine fit pretty tightly. In fact I had a little trouble getting it all together. The only part that felt a little loose was actually the inner sleeve over the pivot. This made putting the whole assembled control arm onto the car super easy, but it seemed like it should have been a little more snug fitting.

I found "modifying" the rear bushing to take a lot longer than I expected. I found that the old bushings were a poor template because they seem warped from use... like they were symmetrical when new, but got bent crooked over time. I think I cut the angle at something like 60 degrees or so. Like 505max94se suggested I only cut ONE angle and found the other side fits without cutting. I did more grinding than normal because I decided I didn't like how simply forcing the old brackets over the new, wider bushing would require so much force. I was worried about spreading the brackets apart (fitment) but mostly felt that it would compress/preload the bushing too much, which I didn't want to do. I ended up grinding away about 5mm or so (can't remember exactly) from each side of the bushing, and I left a 1/4" shoulder on each side of the bushing (flat side w/o curve). I did this so that it would resist walking out the other side since there isn't anything else behind it to stop this and there aren't any shoulders on the bushing the way the OEM style has. In the end, everything worked out pretty well. If I have time later I might try and post a drawing to show exactly what I did....

Due to a back injury and TONS of rain (ie, flood control ) my car's still in drydock until this weekend when I'll be putting those washers on. Hope that one bushing isn't chewed up too much!

 

I didn't find it anywhere, so i gottta ask.

Where did you get your ES bushings? And for how much?

 

It's mentioned in the last set of links. Courtesy Nissan

 

I sell them too!
it's been a slow month

 

And where is the ES bushing grease applied?

 

I sell them too... why not? I sell everything else.

 

The grease needs to cover any part of the bushing that touches metal or you can just cover the whole thing in grease like I did.

That bushing grease sure is some really nasty/annoying crap to deal with.

 

GUYS BE CAREFUL WITH THE FITTING!

My poly bushings started to slide off after driving for a while. I know this from observation. I fixed this with fitting in an additional metal piece to prevent it from coming off again.

 

Clarification please. Which bushing? The smaller one that has to be burnt out has two big washers to keep it in. ARe you talking about the large bushing that needs to be trimmed??

 

most likely the front bushings... some of the ES kits didn't come with the washers up front, and it doesn't mention it in the install instructions I don't think... they need to have them.

 

So does the kit from Courtesy include the washers? Looks like they do in the pic to me.

 

The kit from courtesy does include the washers but, like matt said you don't need them. You might be able to put the washers on but, the stock bushings don't have washers so why put them on. Also if you have the blehmco lower tie bar the washers probably wouldn't fit without a little more grinding. If I remember right, the stock 27mm bolt has a big washer already on it.

 

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! Please don't talk ish like that if you don't know what you're talking about.

You NEED the washers.
There is PLENTY of room to fit the washers on there.
SOME of the kits from Energy did not have the washers included.
the stock 27mm nut DOES NOT have a washer on it.
If you install my lower tie bar, you can remove the front washer, but you still need the rear one.




If you were one of the lucky people that didn't get the washers in the kit, then you can do three things:
1. buy the OEM washers from Nissan for $3 each
2. Call Energy suspension, tell them they weren't in the kit, and they will mail you some.
3. go to the hardware store and buy some 5/8" flat washers, then dremel the hole out just a hair to make it fit. (or buy some 3/4" washers and they're a hair oversize, but they'll work.)

 

Why would you need the washers for the 3rd gen when the 3rd gen stock bushings don't have washers? The kit is made for the 4th gen anyway.

I have the es bushings with the lower tie bar and and I don't have any washers and it works just fine. The tie bar would take slightly a little more grinding (maybe a 1 mm or so, no big deal).

I could be wrong about all of this (like the washer on the 27mm bolt) but, for the most part I do know what I'm talking about because I've already done this.