i put my rear sway bar on about three weeks ago and noticed right off that bat that the car understeers.(not suprised) but it really made the cars body roll dissapear so i figured i would go ahead and purchase a fstb and maybe i could nutralize the steering a little and flaten the cornering just a little more. so this morning i installed it and notcied that the car seems to have the same body roll that it did when the car was bone stock. i cant corner as fast and i am very very pi$$ed. so im probably gonna take it off..but i was curious if this is common?? oh yeha everything else is stock as far as the suspension.

 

get a lower tie bar...it has a more noticeable effect on the front end than a FSTB...

 

How is the clearance with the Blehmco Stage II lower tie bar? I am undecided whether to get the stage I or stage II lower tie bar since I will be installing a set of Tein S-tech springs.

 

which RSB did you get...the way you installed it matters alot

 

The stage 1 and 2 LTB have the same ground clearance.

Aftermarket RSBs are adjustible. Play around with it. Move it more toward the front and back.

Get ES poly bushings. They make a nice difference.

 

its a progress rear sway bar and from the looks of it there isnt much room for me to adjust it.. i have the the U bolts spread out as far as i can and the sides there no room to move it cause there is a bracket in the way guess im lost here...but my main concern is since the installation of the strut tower bar the handling has gotten worse..isnt that weird??

 

in general the FSTB should not cause the car to handle worse. the only time it really is working is during hard cornering. i'd suspect your RSB is loose or needs to be readjusted.

it sounds like you mounted the U bolts fine. the brackets on the sides of the RSB should be mounted as close to the end tip of the bar as possible for greater effect. on mine there is about an inch left from the end of the bar to where the brackets are mounted. here's the write up i used.

 

thats where they are i can wrap one finger between the bracket and the end of the bar so its about the same as yours..im gonna check it and make sure everything is tight on that..thats what it must be cuase i find it odd that the handling would worsen with the addition of that fstb

 

Actually, per the Cattmann instructions, the FARTHER away from the end you mount the brackets, the greater the effect. Think about it - if the brackets are at the end, there's greater leverage on the bar to twist it. If they're farther away, it takes more force to create the same twist - so car has less body roll for equivalent cornering.

Regarding the change in the original post's author's handling: I've driven my car with both (current), and with the FSTB off so my dealer wouldn't freak out when I took it in for service. Can't say that I noticed any change in body roll with the FSTB, but the handling moved from understeer to neutral with it installed.

Also can't figure out why the FSTB would effect body roll...any chance you tightened it too much (long shot, just wondering if you have it so tight you've changed the strut angle...? It would have to be ridiculously taut though...). Try adjusting the bar for more stiffness (as noted above), and that should help.

 

The LTB you lose a couple inches of clearance. I've only ever scraped mine once, and that was straddling a speedbump the wrong direction

I have maxspeeds, but frankly if I was lower I don't know if I would have the LTB or not...

 

hmm, i thought it was the other way around. need to dig up my progress install instructions to take another look. seems like closer the brackets are to the rear beam the less of an effect it would have. either way i doubt there's much of a difference since the progress rsb only has about 3 inches of mounting room to work with anyway.

 

The further the brackets from the curve, the tighter the RSB will be. The tighter it is, the more bump steer (and consequent oversteer) it introduces into the rear suspension

 

I don't want to be totally wrong and make a fool of myself, but it seems like there's some awfully fishy information in this thread. E55AMG2 seems to be right, but a lot of the other info looks wrong.

Our cars (like MOST cars on the market) already understeer from the factory. Mild understeer is "safe," because the average dumb driver can recover from it more easily than he could recover from oversteer in an emergency situation (how many average people know how to properly manage the throttle and steering input to recover from oversteer in a FWD vehicle... or an RWD vehicle for that matter?).

Installing an RSB should NOT induce understeer. If anything, it should increase the car's tendency to oversteer while reducing body roll.

Installing an FSTB should NOT dramatically effect your handling for the worse or for the better. It might slightly improve front-end response while slightly increasing your car's tendency to understeer or "plow" when you reach your car's limit on a curve.

Generally, the stiffer end of the car is the end that will tend to break loose first. If you stiffen up the front end without changing the rear, you will increase your car's tendency to understeer. If you stiffen up the rear end without changing the front, you will increase your car's tendency to oversteer. Tuning your suspension is all about finding a balance between front and rear stiffness to achieve the perfect compromise between oversteer and understeer. Some people prefer slight oversteer, and others prefer slight understeer. It all depends on your driving style and your ability to handle your car at its limits. Getting TRULY neutral handling is rather difficult.

 

For those of you who aren't clear on the topics of oversteer and understeer, I stole this explanation from another website:

I also made a pretty picture!

 

In direct answer to MAX0830's question, I'd have to say that your experience is not common. It's an entirely unexpected outcome if your bars are both installed properly. Maybe you should just give them both a good once-over to make sure that everything is mounted properly.

Here's a great link with all kinds of suspension info on it. It's from a Nissan Sentra site, but the info is also very relevant to the Maxima community. Our cars may be larger, heavier, and more powerful, but they're still front engine, front wheel drive vehicles.

http://www.sentra.net/tech/garage/suspension.php

I found the two tables with detailed info regarding the effects of different suspension mods to be especially useful.

 

putting on an rsb should give you oversteer, not create more understeer. i have heard several peopele putting on fstbs and adjusting tire pressure to compensate for newly introduced oversteer with the rsb. btw, i want to get one myself, whats the cheapest place to find an RSB?

 

it was just odd that the car seemed to handle ok with just the rsb.. the huge body roll cut in half..i then felt as if i was really drifting to the outside of the corner(which i thought was understeer) i was pretty happy with the results. so i figured that installing the front bar wouldnt do much but i was hoping that it would reduce that understeer and allow me to track through the center of the corner. maybe i need to just give it a once over and retighten everything. or i will just take the thing off.

 

Cattmann, who actually sells the RSBs, just confirmed that the CLOSER the brackets are to the curve, the MORE effect the RSB will have.

The FARTHER (further?) the brackets are from the curve, the LESS effect it will have.

Also, per another comment above - the Cattmann bar actually has close to six inches of adjustment, there's just a gap in the adjustment. You either have to put it in front of (toward front of car) the clamp holding the brake line, or behind it. I put it behind, which puts my clamps (IIRC) about five inches from the end of the bar, which should have maximum effect. Note that if you do this, the brake line needs to be padded or covered so it doesn't rub on the RSB bracket. I used urethane tubing to cover it.

Peace.

 

There was a great difference with the Lower Tie Bar on but that was before I put in the D2. With the D2 coilover on + the LTB my car had only 2 inches clearance, the LTB was scrapping a lot. I had no choice but removing it. Meanwhile I kind of scavange it and I'm trying to modify the LTB to regain 2 inches of clearance, it seem possible but I dunno if I will succeed. In all honesty if you have coilover with RSB, FSTB and ES bushing you dont really need LTB unless you race hard. This morning on my way to work I took a sharp curve at around 100KM/hr and the car was very stable, obviously the 235 rubber has something to do but with my previous set-up I couldn't take that curve at more than 60-70KM/hr and the body roll was somehow scary now the car seems to be on rails.

Cheers