Ok, after hearing several noteworthy members on the Org recommend that the max handles better (more safely) w/out an RSB I had to test this theory out.

I will start with the progression of my suspension setup:
1. Drop - Progress springs. Amazing improvement; probably one of my best mods so far. It didnt even feel like the same car anymore. Still a comfortable ride, but cornering - wow. I felt much more "planted".

2.Ebay FSTB - not a huge difference but definitely noticeble in corners. (tighter response as it were)

3.Progress RSB - OK, so i loved it from the start. cornering at low speeds is amazing - the back end just sticks. It planted the car even more. Theres an exit ramp w/ a very abrupt turn at the beginning I used to like to test out sometimes. The addition of the RSB made this even more fun. However, my stock tires being my limiting factor and the fact that this turn is insane made a 35-40mph turn very extreme. (this turn should be taken at about 15-20)
I couldnt see what people on the Org where talking about when they said it makes our already stiff rear beam to stiff..... that is until today.

Ill start by saying that I will have fun like this every now and then at slower speeds, but once im on the highway, the games are over. (I like being a courteous driver and not pull stupid moves) Anyway, I took an exit ramp today a little faster than usual to test this "to stiff" theory. After hearing of Bijan's experience a few days ago, I kinda wanted to see what a higher speed turn would have been like with the RSB since that is where the trouble seems to occur. (Glad you are OK btw Bijan) Anyway, sure enough the car stuck like usual but suddenly I felt it wanting to break loose. As stated before, it seems that the bar will keep you "more planted" but your margin for error significantly decreases coming up on that breaking point. I think I agree that I would like to feel a little more flex in the chasis to know where that breaking point is. It was a little scary even though was waiting for/expecting it because it felt fine and just broke loose w/out any warning. I quickly recorrected and was fine (no worries this wasnt out of control or anything, the tires barely broke but just enough to where I knew If I wasnt paying attention I would have been SOL).

My final eval therefore - low speeds (autocross etc.), the bar seems great
High Speed Manuevers - (which I try to never do) is where the bar seems to come into question and present some safety factors.

Feel free to correct me/add something where you see fit. Im trying to get this cleared up for myself and for alot of others on the Org im sure.

thanks guys

 

Good observations... the next question is, in conditions were traction is compromised because of wet roads for example, how close is the gap between low-speed and high-speed... i.e. at low speeds on wet roads, do you feel like you are at the limit sooner with the RSB...

It just seems to me that the RSB adds a degree of handling uncertainty that seems to outweight it's benefits. Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree that seems accurate. The rsb makes 50+ mph curves feel un-safe. I notice that everyday with my car. It's very very unnerving especially with passengers in the car. Mine will be coming off soon.

 

But isn't the reason people buy RSB's so they can corner faster? And they use it as such. Thus the reason it isn't a good mod. Or we should say it is a dangerous mod. Personally I think that the RSB is a waste of money unless you're AWD perhaps rwd. But then that is my opinion.

 

Well the RSB is really good for cars with independant rear suspension. For our cars with the solid rear beam, its not as necessary.

 

very good point - dry roads, bridgestone potenzas (they were on the car when i bought it) with prob 20% tread life left. lower speeds i would say 15-35ish, higher being 40+

believe me 245/40/18s are coming soon when i get 18s

i need to try wet conditions w/ newer tires tho

 

i think this is the key point

 

I need to get a RSB so i can provide some input first hand.

But from what i have gathered, it does provide extra grip (more so than without it) but it gives you less of a warning sign of when ur gona loose the traction you already have. This is all something you should already be thinking about when entering a corner correct? If you anticipate and plan out a high speed turn, im sure you could pull thru it ALOT better with a RSB than without, or else it wouldnt be up there with the y pipe as being the biggest "bang for your buck" mod.

I think you guys are relating this more to "personal prefference" than performance....

Then again, i havent put a RSB in the max yet, but i have been in several maximas with them installed...so feel free to argue my point if you wish

 

The reason anyone add the rear sway bar is to reduce body roll in which lower Maxima don't have much of unless you are autoXing or running a road course.

 

You really should be worry whether the tire compound is going to be sticky enough but that's another argument in itself. Our cars understeer by default which is good and most die hard racers will tell you this. Adding that aftermarket RSB cancels out the effect of the FSB so much that it makes the car oversteer. Very dangerous.

If the FSB was upgraded to work in sync with the aftermarket RSB, the handling would be a lot better without the fear of the **** kicking out around turns.

 

if i were to add matt blehm's stage 2 lower tie bar would that reduce the amount of oversteer caused by my RSB. I also have the FSTB.

 

Maybe it's the order of upgrade (or combination) or modifications that should also be considered. Do people decide on mod order based on cost?

Jae

 

The Progress rsb I have installed does help quite a bit in cornering, but only on dry roads. I've learned not to do anything even remotely adventurous on wet conditions from owning two camaros. I don't care how much suspension work a person may have done, you can't beat mother nature.

But in dry conditions, the rsb makes my grocery getter into a corner carving monster. At extreme cornering, the rsb could force the end to kick out, but it's more than controllable from my experience. I've literally destroyed the front driver's side suspension because of it.

I say it's a worthy mod if you enjoy sharp corners. Just make sure to take it off for the winter. The rsb makes the *** end kick out at every corner in the snow.

 

A maxima? A corner carving monster? Are we driving the same car's here?????

 

NCSU, you post is very correct. i believe that the RSB is a dangerous mod. Its good to a certain point but once you past that point its all over. The RSB contrubited to totaling my old max. lets just say black ice and a corner. car did not want to recover and keep fishtailing, into a telephone pole then on its roof. but thank god every1 was fine.

 

Yes sir. And nobody will tell me otherwise. The rsb made a big improvement.

sean05-
black ice will throw you into a tail spin, with or without a rsb.

 

NCSU_MAX, thanks for the information. it's always much nicer to hear about first-hand experiences than just another regurgitation of maxmods.dyndns.org.
I wonder if the adjustability of the Stillen bar would help better balance over/understeer, or maybe its possible to reduce the thickness of the Progress bar to reduce its effect.

 

The beam is in itself a RSB. The main advantage (or disadvantage) of the multilink beam it is that it keep both tires on the ground at the same position always. The camber, toe, and caster are fixed. An aftermarket rsb just reinforces it to make it less flexible even though it was meant to have some flex in it. This is also why the stillen version has no bushings since the beam itself has bushings that are likely very worn. When you have stock springs making the beam less flexible is not as noticable since the springs will take up most of the slack, but with a more aggressive suspension it will just cause binding and lift one of the tires off the ground becuase the suspension does have enough flex in the right directions.

Filling the trailing arm bushings which act as part of the RSB function of the rsb with polyurethane would give you that same effect of a aRSB without the binding since the beam can still flex and the bushings still can too, just not nearly as much.

You could also try to either replace the scott-rusell linkage (the scissor thing on the beam) with a new OEM one with new bushings or try to fill those bushings with polyurethane, but I think some of them are supposed to be pretty soft and may cause binding if filled with too stiff polyurethane. It might not make too big of a difference in handling filling them anyway so OEM might be better for ride quality for what you would get, but we will never really know until someone actually does it.

Filling everything is a project I want to do whenever I have enough time to be without my car's rear suspension for about a week or so to properly cure. I will probably also try to just use new OEM scott-russell link bushings as well and compare.

Another thread about this. http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=346336

 

sean - glad your ok man

funlovinmax - yea i figured there where others in my boat and i wanted to clear things up for myself as well as others.

spig - im thinking of moving my bushings much closer together before i actually get rid of the entire bar and see how big of a difference this makes. right now they are as spread out as they can go

 

You guys aren't clearing up anything.

 

The biggest kick in the pants to me is.....Ive been up in the mountains - taking those curves at speeds that I thought were more than usual, and the back end never skeeted at all...

Thanks for the kind words man

 

enough wit all the driving experience and all dat.. so, is it worth it to get the RSB or NOT?!?!?!?!??!?! coz im thinkin bout gettin the STILLEN RSB!!!

 

You want US to tell YOU if it's worth it or not? You gotta be kiddin me. You notice whenever someone asks for an opinion here, it's always a 50/50. You've already seen a dozen people give their thoughts on it. Farken pick a side and do it or don't do it. Or do you expect a few dozen more to hold your little hand?

 

deezo would you recommend eliminating it other than autocrossing and such or just pairing it with more stiffening up front (ie blehmco bar) for everyday use?

 

damn here u are again wit ur stupid a$$ comments u need to get a life or shoot urself or sumting!! act ur age u act like a freakin 14yr kid tryin to get some attention...

 

Hold your hand it is then. You obviously can't make up your own mind.

 

Why do you talk like an e-thug?

Getting an RSB won't be something you know is worth it or not until after you do and either total you're car, or get it and rave about how much you like the handling difference it made.

 

My 99 is lowered w/Tokico Illumina struts and springs, with the Progress BSB, 225x55x16 BFG G-force TAs and ASA JS5s 16x7.5, and I have never met a corner I didn't like. Yes, you can have a corner-carving Maxima. And I don't take it off in the winter - the tires dig in well in snow and rain.

Let's see - no body lean, extreme cornering, and no reason to slow down at off-ramps until you hit a light or stop sign. I'm lovin' it.

 

I've got Tein Basic coil-overs, probably one of the lowest cars on this forum(2 finger front gap, 3 finger in rear) and I've had my cattman RSB on for a couple years now. I don't have the fish-tailing problem some of these good people are describing, and I'm a very "spirited" driver. I've entered/exited many a' turn with no problem at all, even the famous round-a-bout in lexington. I can enter at 50mph, exit at 50mph, about the same speed my fathers 350Z can, without his car fishtailing. Right now I've got stock 16in rims with Kumho SPT, haven't tried with new rims, but they won't be going on.
Andrew

 

how far apart did you space your bushings?

 

simply stated, the rsb improves both low speed and high speed handling. Its just that its easier to lose control if you make a mistake(i.e. i started power sliding in the rain when make a left turn a little to quickly, if i hadn't had the rear sway bar i would have felt the end losen up a bit)

 

I had a Progress RSB in my Maxima (D2 coilovers, Cattman Ti-Bar FTSB), and the car was more forgiving without the RSB, I noticed quick changes in steering input could upset the rear and cause you to lose control, expecially when braking.

 

I never regretted for one second having the stillen RSB. It was one of my favorite mods. I've got an opinion about those who think it's dangerous or worthless but I will keep that to myself.

 

ive never regretted gettin the Stillen RSB either. I think it has more to do with blaming the driver then the RSB.
For example: The RSB increases your chance of oversteer. (doesnt cause oversteer) So if your cornering hard and you hit the brakes, with a RSB you have a better chance of having the rear come out on you, whereas a car without a RSB the rear end wouldnt come out as easily, but you cant blame the bar for that....(Driver!)

Ive been road racing for about 5 years now. handling mods on my car if it matters, JIC FLTA-2, SFCs, Front and rear strut bars, 245/40/18 RE750s and Stillen RSB.

Id reccomend the RSB to anyone that wants better handling..but the driver needs to kno how to use/control it.

 

I would say use it for just that, not for drivng around on and off ramps at 50 mph. The grooves and bumps in the on/off ramps can cause the rear end to skip also.

 

Your suspension is highly adjustable so that you're able to make huge adjustments to compensate for the RSB.

The RSB does add oversteer if the front suspension is not upgraded to compensate for it.

 

oooooo - thank you, thats what i needed to know right there.

 

I think this is a very valid point. I would consider myself a good driver but have not yet got the opportunity to enhance my skills at road racing events. I think the conclusion here is that the RSB can be valuable if the driver is trained and has a very adjustable suspension setup (like Turbo95Max's)
again feel free to correct me if im wrong

thanks for your inputs neal, deezo, and turbo

 

Even for the average driver i still think its a good mod to have.

I put a RSB on my parents stock 2k SE Max. I drive their car alot and love it. Their car still understeers a good amount even with the RSB. I never told them i put it on and when my mom drove it she asked me how come the car doesnt lean as much when she turns (in chinese) and she doesnt kno jack about cars.

 

After reading the whole thread up to this point, it seems like the ones who feel that the rear sway bar causes more problems than it is worth all have the progress/addco/cattman rsb. Myself, along with Nealoc and Turbo95Max seem to have the Stillen and love it. I have had it on my car for 3 years now along with KYB/AGX's and Progress springs all around. I experience no problems with steering into tight corners or arouns on/off ramps. I have also gone through 3 NY winters with no problems at all. Could all this be attributed to the design and mounting differences between the progress/addco/cattman and Stillen RSB?