Thought you folks might find this interesting - today I got a core tranny from Rob Tilley (don't worry - he hasn't charged me for it) to attempt to rebuild and swap into my car.

It turns out the diff in this car has some shattered teeth, as does the mating main gear. Should be fun to rebuild, haha.

Anyone got a spare diff gear?

Dave

 

num num.....

 

looks like fun. i wish auto trannys were this easy to rebuild.

 

Not pretty looking.

 

haha think thats bad you should see mine... ill have pics up tomorrow i get a new tranny tues from man trans in florida shipped total cost was only $1,010

 

Who's John Tilley?

Anyways I actually have a diff out of a trans right now. I'd have to search for it down at the shop though I don't know where it's gotten to.

 

ouch......

 

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=430880

 

Was that thread supposed to help answer my question? Because it didn't.

 

TILLEYS99 on this board, sorry. And yes, I'm interested in that diff if he can't find one readily.

Dave

 

When did Tilley change his 1st name to John? I thought it was Robert all along???

Wow u busted that gear pretty bad! I guess if the tranny was about to go out, it chose to go out with flying colors (more like flying metal). But anyway, if you choose to rebuild it, please take pics of the process. Myself along with other people here might be interested in seeing a few pics of the task.

 

Er, Rob Tilley. Rob/John

Anyway, I don't know where he got this tranny or how it got broken - although the diff carrier bearings weren't looking too good, and I imagine the excessive play affected the meshing of the final gear, to the point that the gear slap and tip loading simply shattered them. So if you're driving on loose carrier bearings, take it easy and get it fixed ASAP before you ruin or shatter your final drive gears.

Dave

 

Good news for me, Tilley has the diff that matches the spare set of gears. So I have all the parts I need.

FWIW, I was checking out what kind of bearing puller might work for removing the carrier bearings and I came up with these: http://www.mytoolstore.com/otc/1122.html - trouble is, the rig will cost around $150, if it works. I'm still taking my stuff to a tranny shop and letting them do it.

Dave

 

hmm keep us posted. I have the tranny out of my 1999 which I would like to rebuild. Hopefully it doesn't look like yours.

 

Well, an update. First, I was concerned that pulling the outer race from the each end of the mainshaft would be really difficult. In reality, they weren't in very tightly, and using the Autozone rental jawed slide puller, they popped out easily. I think simply hooking one of the jaws under the inside edge of the outer race and giving the slide hammer a pop is all I'll need. The differential carrier bearings came out quite easily also.

I'm also optimistic that drilling a hole in the housing to reach the end of the mainshaft will work well for determining the mainshaft bearing preload. On the clutch side, the mainshaft bearing bore has a metal plug that can be pushed out to give access to the mainshaft end - so I can simply remove that to push the mainshaft back and forth through its clearance.

The only major issue I can complain about is not having the best sizes of pin punches (use 1/8 through 3/16 pins) to punch out the roll pins. That and my shift linkage didn't want to come apart easily due to bits of broken gear teeth jamming it.

Dave

 

Boy, does that look familiar. It's a good thing that our trannies are so easy to repair.

 

Those plugs are why I wasn't sure why you'd want to drill your casing when you mentioned it another time. As for the pins, are you talking about the pins that hold the shift forks to the rods? If so, unless you already have the rod/fork off the tranny, DO NOT hammer/drive/punch them. You must use a c-clamp/small press, whatever.

Hint, when you're putting your tranny back together, use a little vaseline, high quality assembly grease to keep the outter bearing races in the upper have of the case from falling out as you reinstall.

 

well i thought you might read that thread. If you did you would find out about Tilley.

 

The amount of preload is measured by looking at the additional movement of the tranny casing as their torqued together. (loaded)

I don't get the hole to reach the mainshaft? Thats not where you measure preload. You usually use a dial gauge to measure the movement of the casings as you torque them together.

Preload keeps the mainshaft from moving when force is applied to it.
To little preload and the shaft moves slightly side to side as it's loaded and unloaded by engine power. That causes premature wear of the gears and synchros. To much preload simply eats up the bearings. Setting the preload is an important part of a manual transmissions operation and life expectancy.

I'd read up in the factory service manual and see exactly how thats done.

 

I've studied the factory service manual in detail. Because the mainshaft is completely enclosed when the housings are bolted together, you can't move it, and you can't get a dial gauge on it.

It looks like the factory tool is some doodad that measures the housings to determine shim size, rather than use a dial gauge.

My idea is to drill a hole in the housing near the end of the mainshaft, making it possible to put a dial gauge on the mainshaft. Then I would need to push the mainshaft back and forth to measure the play - I intend to do that either with a stiff wire thru the diff opening, or through the opening from the mainshaft front to the bellhousing (covered by a metal cap). This would give a direct reading of the play, which of course allows the proper selection of shims to produce a preload at final assembly. The hole in the housing is tapped and plugged with a short screw and sealant.

I should have results on this idea (with a few pics) by the weekend.

Dave

 

Come on dude, you think I don't know who tilley is, or that I hadn't already read that thread? Give me a break. Look how long I've been around here and all I've got done to my car... Most people with lots of mods know who the other heavily modded people are.

My post was generated by the fact that his name is ROB TILLEY not JOHN TILLEY... get with the program bro. I talk to Rob Tilley all the time.

 

Looks like a good project.

Where you located in PA?

 

I'm right off the Harrisburg West exit of the turnpike (I-83). I'm about 40min from Gettysburg.

If you're going through my way in the next few days feel free to stop by.

Dave

 

Glad to see someone else is having fun with their tranny rebuild. Nissan should have a diff gear for around 100$.

 

Here are some updated pics:

Internals all cleaned and ready to go:


Bearing kit from GT Transmissions - includes both kinds of driver-side diff carrier bearings, and all possible oil seals (including a couple seals I don't recognize). Anyone need a VLSD drivers-side bearing? GT kit = $210, Nissan = $250+


Where I tapped into the housing to make try and make a direct mainshaft endplay measurement: (yes, I know I need to shorten the bolt)

 

Cleaned housings. I took them to a local tranny shop and had them run through the parts washer. Best $36 I've spent in a while. The shafts/gears are at a tranny shop for bearing removal and parts washer.

I can say that thorough washing is very important - the broken gear chips are like broken glass - a few big chunks and tiny shards EVERYWHERE - I doubt I could have cleaned these parts well enough on my own.






(Before tapping the mainshaft access hole)

 

I was laughing my A** off from reading how people were trying to explain to you who tilley is.... this kids should be for not know who you are Nealoc187

Nealoc187 = one of the fastest 3.0 all motor maximas, before the horrible acident.

 

Well, the idea of tapping holes in the housings to directly measure endplay appears to have worked. I started with a coarse thread (M8x1.25) but ended up using a 3/8-24.

I tapped to get access to the rear of the input shaft and mainshaft, and the front of the mainshaft. I located the holes to push directly on the axle. I put my dial indicator on the front side for measuring all 3 measurements, and propped up the case with the front side facing up. Then I tapped each axle down to seat it securely, and set up the dial indicator. Finally I used a 3/8-24 screw to jack the axle up into the dial indicator. Since the mag block of the dial indicator doesn't hold to the aluminum housing, I used some of that stretchy clear plastic tape that hockey players use to hold their shinpads to hold it nice and tight to a flat part of the housing. I repeated each measurement completely and got consistent measurements.

Tips:
1) Watch for dings/nicks in the housing that will affect the seating of the outer bearing races.
2) When using the tapped holes to jack screw the shafts, do not overtighten. Watch the dial indicator as you tighten and when the needle stops advancing, stop. The tapped threads and thin housing thickness make is very easy to strip. (Hence the move from M8 to 3/8-24)

To plug the holes I made, I plan to thread in a 3/8-24 bolt and seal it with Loc-tite red, then cut off what's hanging out.

Dave

 

Rather than glue in a bolt and cut it off, I taped over the tapped holes in the housing and filled the holes with JB Weld. It's almost invisible from the outside once the tape is removed. Just don't pile the JB too high or else it might rub against the shafts.

I had to wait 3 weeks to get my new bearing shims - apparently Nissan had none in North America and they were brought in from Japan. Advice, if you find yourself needing shims - when you order, check on the lead time. If the sizes you need aren't in stock, buy the next size up that's available and take it to a tool&die shop and have them grind it down to size.




Most everything went together well. The FSM is fairly accurate - I could find nothing incorrect, but it doesn't mention some small stuff like the oil pockets and other little stuff on the tranny case.

While it's in my head, I will list some things that were absolutely necessary:
- dial indicator and mounting block
- 3/8-24 tap and handle, 3/8-24 bolts
- telescoping magnetic pick-up tool
- gasket sealer
- heavy grease
- various punches from 1/8" to 5/16" size
- long, stiff piece of 1/8" wire to push out the little shafts in the shifter assembly

Tomorrow I will bolt in the remaining stuff, clean the garage, and hopefully get the old tranny out.

Question: does anyone know how deep to drive in the diff oil seals? My guess is to drive them until the hard part of the seal is flush with the surface of the case, but it looks like it's possible to drive them in further.

 

They make tools for knocking the roll pins out (what I believe you are talking about when you said 1/8" stiff wire was used).

About the seals, make the flat surface face flush with the case. There is a big range that will work really, but I have found that to be a safe bet. Put a light film of RTV super gray on the seals before you put them in for added protection against leaks. That's what we do at the shop.

 

Ok I will Email you a nice Cookie.... You deserve it...

 

Actually I used pin punches to knock out the roll pins (argh it's annoying, too).

The stiff wire was used to push out the 10mm round bars that the reverse selector and shift selector pivot around (the ones with the o-ring on them).

Thanks for the info on the seals.

DAve

 

Oh ok I know what you're talking about now. Yes those things are very annoying, I still haven't figured out why they made those things that way.

 

good too see its all working for ya.

 

Well, I got everything together today, and installed a new power steering pump. Unfortunately, that used gearset whines like a set of straight-cut gears. It shifts a little rough since they don't spin smoothly. I'd have to guess there is either gunk in the needle bearings under each gear, or some damage to the gears that makes them not mesh smoothly. Prior to reassembly, I noticed they didn't spin or shift very smoothly, but I still did not take the gearsets apart. Obviously I'll have to now.

I did break down the tranny that came out of my car - and I see the classic spalled carrier bearings. I think I'll just do this one minimalist and replace only the carrier bearings.

So in a nutshell, my idea to rebuild a spare tranny and do a swap pretty much backfired - it turns out it would have been cheaper, simpler, and easier to replace only the carriers on mine.

Dave

 

damn that sucks

 

Well I knew I was taking a risk with the used parts, so s**t happens.

I've got new carrier bearings (drove 40min to Chapman's, who actually had them in stock), so in theory I have everything ready. With luck, I'll have this tranny back together by lunch, drop the noisy one out of the car by dinner, and have the swap done by the end of the night. It's an aggressive schedule, but the procedure, is, um, all too familiar.

Dave

 

Looks like Dave isi putting in some good work....keep it up man...

 

Well I rebuilt my old tranny on Wednesday, dropped the noisy one on Thursday night in about 2h 20min, and installed my old tranny last night in about 3h. That is really hard work when you don't have air tools, a proper tranny jack, or a helper.

All was well on the test drive, except when I got home. The driver side axle popped out from the diff a little bit right as I pulled back into my driveway, and oil started drizzling out in a puddle. Hitting the hard bump of my driveway apron while turned full left must have yanked it out. I'm going back down now to try and get the axle to snap in this time. I hate those damn circlip retainers.

Dave

 

Dave now that you saw the condition of the differential. Can you remember anything abnormal about your transmission while you were driving it before your transmission died? Any driveability issues or unusual noise or things like that? Thanks