***UPDATED MEASUREMENTS AND PICS ON 2/1/06, POST 21***

Ok I got my KYB GR2's with Vogtland Springs put on and after about 50 miles I have some initial impressions on them.

I bought this set up after much debate. I was looking for something that would lower my car about a 1.5", give some better handling but also retain a decent ride. If push came to shove I would chose ride over handling, my max is not a race car to me. On my Honda Prelude I had KYB AGX struts with H&R springs and most of my comparisons will be made to that as I have never been in another max that has aftermarket springs. I was extremely happy with the results I had on my prelude so I looked into the same thing for my max. Well KYB does not make the AGX's directly for a 5th gen but with some modification they will be able to fit them. I was surprised at how much this setup jumped since 2002 when I put this setup in my prelude when I paid a little over $425 for both. The cheapest I could find now was well over $550 and still had to mod the rear struts to work in my car. I started looking into the GR2's and found that they seemed to be one most well liked struts that are non-adjustable and since I would give the nod to ride over handling I went for those. I found a guy on eBay who sold these with a set of Vogtland springs for $472 shipped. I had planned on going with H&R but I looked into them. I didn't find much feedback for the maxima's but I did find that they both gave me a similar drop and both were German made. So I took the plunge and ordered them.

When they came
They came from California as most do and were packaged pretty well. They came with a CD but it’s mostly in German. I sleep through Spanish class in high school, let alone German so I have no idea what it says.








Front springs on top, rear springs on bottom

 

OEM vs. Vogtland

Fronts





I forgot to take pictures of the rears before they were on and since I am too lazy if anyone wants to come over to my house and take them off and take pics, come on over. The rears were almost the exact same height though.

Everything on, front

 

Drop
Remember this is only after about 50 miles, the springs will most likely settle some in the next few hundred miles. I will update you on the results after I put some miles on.

Stock vs Drop

Stock


Drop


Drop Close up front, rear





On OEM struts my front height was 28" and rear was 27 1/4"
On Vogtland my front was 26 5/8" and my rear was 25 3/4"

Initial Driving Impressions
When I had finished up the fronts I went and got some lunch and then came back and got the rears done so I can tell the difference between the front and rears, with that said....

Pros:
It definitely handles better than before. Very minimal body lean and feel extremely tight. When you finish a hard turn and straighten the car out there is no sway at all. Feel free to through this car into the turns and power out of them all you want.

The ride has gotten stiffer but is not anywhere near as rough as it was in my prelude. The smaller bumps that went unnoticed before you know they are they now, but they are not going to spill you drink. The car feels like a sporty car not a teeth rattling one.

Cons:
I have only one and it may go away. The rears are much stiffer than the fronts, so the back end kind of "bucks" over bumps. When I first put them on it was REALLY noticeable, but I can already tell a fair amount difference in the 50 miles I have put on. They are mellowing out some but I would like the rears to soften more and I feel they could without losing any performance. This also may be to the struts being brand new also, so I will update you all in a few weeks.

Conclusions
For what I spent, $472 to my door, I feel I have an excellent package that is definitely comparable to more expensive setups. I have absolutely no complaints in the build quality of the springs and struts at all. Vogtland may be new to Maxima family, but do not be afraid to try them if they are close to what you are looking for.

Fat

 

Man, you specifically looked for KYB AGX? They suck compared to Illuminas or Konis..., and the GR2s are supposed to be even worse with aftermarket springs, at least for 4th gens.

Glad you like the springs. I note that they do not come with coil guard material pre-installed (my TEIN High Techs did) so you'll have to make some of your own if you get spring rubbing noises.

 

Great review bigfatty. And thanks for sending the pic. It's now up on the site. Enjoy the new setup. Looks awesome.

 

I like how low the back is but it looks more than a 1.5" drop.

 

Looks very nice! How much were the springs alone?

 

Wow a great write up. I've never seen anyone talking, and posting pics about these. I've heard that they were available, but I guess no one in the 5 th gen tried them. So compare to your H&R drop on the Prelude that you liked, the Vogtland rides better, not as rough as the Prelude?
Well overall I like the drop that it gave you. The drop you already have is little higher then my H&R drop in front, but I'm droped on 235/40/18s so that will make the car higher.

 

I have posted about them in the past. I have had mine on for about 4 months. I have had maxspeeds (2) sets, tein s techs, and now vogtlands. I am very pleased with the Vogtlands other than the rear sitting lower than the front, but not as bad as some I have seen. The ride is much more refined than that of the maxspeeds, which were very inconsistant and after some time got to feel really cheap...the teins had an awsome drop, and the stance of the car was perfect in my eyes, but the ride was pretty harsh. Then I switched to the Vogtlands...I had spoken to the North American VP for them Richard Jonec and he was happy to answer all of my questions and shortly after that I ordered mine. I believe you can get yours for about 175 plus shipping if you look around but don't quote me on that one. The ride feels much more like a German car than a japanese sports car(stiff and harsh). I am very pleased with mine and plan on doing a bit more testing this summer with the handling characteristics compared to the tein s and maxspeeds. Look for some updates with some real numbers corresponding to lateral acceleration, and stability in cornering and ride comfort, as well as some pics. For refrence, mine are wrapped around the tokico illuminas...the best setting I have found so far for this combo is 3F, 4R-5R. If you go to the 4-5 range in front, the ride goes away and the handling doesn't really improve. As with the teins...the best I found for ride was 1-2F and 3R but the car got a bit unstable in cornering and had some float, but expansion joints were still unbearable on any setting. The maxspeeds...less of a planted feel and and pretty harsh on expansion joints and sharp bumps. That's what sent me lookin for a more refined feel. I think that the Vogtlands and H&R's are the best choice for that. My .02. if you are looking for well designed springs, nice drop, good handling and reasonable price, Vogtlands are a great choice. Hope you learned a little something you didn't know.

 

Nice review!

IWNTMORHP!!, do you still have North American VP phone number?

 

WHOA, you're car looks exactly like mine!

Black window trim, no tint, blacked out 2k2 headlights, drop....

It looks VERY close to my progress drop, maybe i'll post up some pics if my comp lets me.

 

nice drop, but you have any more pics (front, back, angle)? It kinda looks like the front is a little higher than the rear. The drop is definately more than my H-techs though. It would be interesting to compare the ride on these springs to Progress or the H techs.

 

PM me...

here is an excerpt of one of our emails. it gives some insight into what they are about.

Cale,

I have included some documentation on our design philosophy. This design criteria is implemented into most of our applications. The majority of the customers we deal with want the car to have a dropped look, but still retain reasonable ride quality. This is certainly the case with our Maxima application we have about a 1.5" drop on average. Since the car has a strut suspension there isn't very much suspension travel, so we cannot compromise that too much. Therefore, this application will not have the slammed appearance like you can achieve with a Honda Civic with an SLA suspension.

If you need anything else let me know.

Richard
Application: 2000 – 2003 Nissan Maxima Typ A33.

Vogtland Part Number: 952107
Individual components of spring kit:
· Front Spring P/N: 952107 VA
· Rear Spring P/N: 952107 HA
· “Product Registration Card”, “Individual Part Trace-ability”, instructions, and Vogtland “Promo-Pak”.

Suggested Retail Price: $309.99

Product Characteristics: The spring kit is intended as an all-purpose performance and appearance enhancement product. When a vehicle is equipped with Vogtland performance lowering springs there are several elements that improve the overall handling. Vogtland lowering is designed to take advantage of the existing suspension geometry and to optimize the relationship of the roll center axis relative to the center of gravity of the vehicle. The amount of lowering improves the appearance of the vehicle and provides the best compromise between the ride and performance handling characteristics.

Vogtland’s ICS (Inertia Control System) technology is utilized to provide a non-compromising performance ride. By utilizing “compound rate” springs the unsprung mass of the vehicle is controlled and the inertia of the suspension components do not exceed the springs’ capacity to control the jounce loads, hence eliminating the requirement for excessive spring rates. The initial rate is designed to provide the O.E. spring pre-load when the suspension is at full rebound. When the suspension is functioning in its normal operating range the springs “compound rate” provides a controlled performance ride but offers enough compliance to maintain occupancy comfort.

The working range of the spring provides for predictable linear rate increase during the compression stroke. This eliminates unpredictable handling characteristics (i.e. corner entry understeer and corner exit oversteer) normally associated with a progressive spring. Vogtland’s optimized spring calibration also reduces the pitch of the vehicle under heavy acceleration or braking. The increased rate of the springs reduce the load transfer to the front tires during heavy braking this reduces the longitudinal pitch of the vehicle, resulting in improved overall braking efficiency.

The proportionate increase in spring rate also reduces body roll, which limits adverse suspension movement. This confines the suspension geometry to stay within parameters that enhance the tires contact patch relative to the road. The result is improved vehicle cornering and handling, because front and rear tire loading is more evenly distributed. Therefore, higher cornering limits can be achieved because the built-in understeer characteristics are reduced and provide for a more neutral yet safe handling vehicle.

These springs are manufactured utilizing Vogtland’s proprietary suspension grade “VVS” spring alloy. Vogtland’s VVS alloy is used exclusively in all our race spring applications. Vogtland’s racing springs are used by some of the most respected Winston Cup Teams such as Dale Earnhardt Inc. By using “VVS” we can reduce the spring weight up to 30% over conventional suspension spring materials. This results in reduced unsprung weight and reduces the suspension inertia allowing the suspension to react more quickly to road surface irregularities, hence providing additional traction.


Continued on next page.






Vogtland Product Overview contd.

Vogtland Part Number: 952107

Technical Specifications:

Approximate Lowering:
· Front: 1.4” (35 mm)
· Rear: 1.2” (30mm)

Spring Type:
· Front: “Compound Rate” helical compression constrained by Strut.
· Rear: “Compound Rate” helical compression, constrained by Strut.

Spring Configuration:
· Front: Top- tangential end closed. Bottom- tangential end open to fit seat
· Rear: Top- closed tangential end. Bottom- reduced end open to fit seat.

Spring Rate:
· Front: 134 - 194 lb/in working range 170 - 194 lb/in
· Rear: 205 – 377 lb/in working range 220 - 270 lb/in


Noise Vibration Harshness Products:

Optional components: Suggested list Price: $24.99
· Front Celasto Kit (p/n: 953066.BSF): Designed to eliminate metal to metal contact of internal damper components and replaces the front stock hard rubber bump stop.
· Provides additional jounce travel of front suspension. Progressive characteristics prevent impact harshness when suspension compresses to full jounce, therefore, improving traction on front tires due to reduced tire overloading and eliminating excessive tire slip angle.

 

here are a couple other links to older threads...

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=345318

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=372943

 

Thanks IWNTMORHP!!, that's basically everything I was looking for!

If you don't mind, I'm ganna add some of the info from this email to my thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=449807

 

As long as the weather agrees to it, I will post more pics of some different angles, and remeasure to see if the springs setteled any more.

Fat

 

Here is a little bit of info i found out from talking with the different spring companies and how they measure drop and settle of their springs. when you measure, the correct way is to measure from the center of the hub (the nissan emblem) on the wheel. that is a consistant measurement vs the ground that can be inconsistant. if you already measured from the ground, do that also and you can compare the difference from your first measurments and the technically correct measuments. if you knew this already, disregard. if not, your are now a smarter person. who said you can't learn something from everyone!

 

Hmmm pretty good/smart, I like that idea. Well I don't know what measurements are supposte to be though for the H&R or Eibach from the wheel hub to the fender? Where do I get that info from?

 

I wasnt interested in performance springs before but these vogtland springs seem really good. I like the look of the car with these springs. Can someone post a link to where I can buy these. Plus if they are the same ones use by tokico in there kits it great. I already have blues on my car now that I put on in august so I am ready to go....

can someone explain what this optional part is all about
Noise Vibration Harshness Products:

Optional components: Suggested list Price: $24.99
· Front Celasto Kit (p/n: 953066.BSF): Designed to eliminate metal to metal contact of internal damper components and replaces the front stock hard rubber bump stop.
· Provides additional jounce travel of front suspension. Progressive characteristics prevent impact harshness when suspension compresses to full jounce, therefore, improving traction on front tires due to reduced tire overloading and eliminating excessive tire slip angle

 

Great idea. This would help avoid factoring in the small variations in tire tread depths, inflations, and sidewall height when making comparisons between cars. However, on your the same car within a short time period, either technique should produce very close #'s for comparison.

 

Vogtland Springs Updated

So after a few hundred miles I took a few more pics and a few more mesaurements. There were some interesting results.

First let me say my only complaint before was that the rear tended to buck over bumps. That has completely gone away and now is extremely smooth. I am extremely happy with the setup I have and I completely enjoy them. They are exactly what I was looking for, a close to even drop, better handeling and only miminal loss in ride quality.

These springs feel very similar to my H&R springs I had in my prelude. The ride feels like a good german car would. Firm but not harsh and you can throw the car into corners and not worry.
The KYB GR2s match up very well with these springs. I am completely happy with this setup.

I have never had the opportunity to ride to another maxima that has aftermarket struts and springs, my only real comparison is to my prelude, but I find it hard to think that any non adjustable strut/spring combo can give you the all around job this setup has. For what I want right now, eben if I had adjustable struts I would end up setting them right where my GR2s would be. I can not say enough that I am completely satisfied.

If there is an another .org member who wants to give this setup a go I am more than willing to give them a ride. Or if someone want to give me ride in a different setup I would like the chance. So if you are in the Northern Illinois/Southern Wisconsin area hit me up, I would like your opinions.

Updated Pics and Measurements

Ok the measurements first. After the springs setteled the drop even out which I am happy with.

OEM Front 28" Rear 27 1/4"
Unsetteled Front 26 5/8" Rear 25 3/4"
Setteled Front 26 3/8" Rear 26"

So my drop is within 3/8" to be even, I will take that any day.

And finally some more pics from some different angles on request.



Front and rear

 

Now I hate my progress springs

 

Is it just me or do those most recent pics (from bigfatty) look like those are H&R springs in that they appear lower in the rear as if they are sagging?

 

To bad you live so far but I am gonna purchase those springs. I already have blues so i don't need any shocks.....All i can find is 199.00 at custommaxima. Any place to buy cheaper....

 

No. The first pic have the rear lower than the front.

 

Yeah the rears are just a little lower than the front, but unless you set yourself up at the perfect angle its tough to tell

Not that I know of, try emailing this guy on ebay: jdmwerks13, he is the one that had the strut/spring set on ebay and see if he will sell you just the springs.

Fat

 

Did you guys have any cases of bottoming out?

 

Or any noise problems. I don't like noise coming from my suspension. With my stock springs and blues the car is nice and quiet over bumps

 

No noise or bottoming out. I didn't get the optional part, but I am assuming that it is the coil isolator...the sleave that keeps the metal to metal contact from happening at both ends. it kinda sounds like a softer bump stop, but i am not sure exactly what this part looks like to be sure of exactly what it is.

as for the drop...it is a bit uneven, but not quite as bad as h&r. i had the same rear kick in the first couple weeks, now it is much more planted. i had considered substituting the s-tech rears because i felt that may correct the drop but after lookin at the measurments i decided that wouldn't help. i am very pleased all the way around except the slight difference in front/rear. the problem i have found is that all the springs that offer near factory ride, are all lower in the rear...i have driven a 5th gen with h&r's and I would have to say they could be a little softer than the vogtlands, but not as close to being even. if i had to chose between a free set of h&r or a free set of vogtlands...i would have to say vogtlands would be my choice. putting a dollar amount on it, the price would sway me to the Vogtlands also. i enjoy my car again vs loving the look but hating to drive it. I am glad to see that the product is getting noticed now. I know that Richard had mentioned that the sales had been less than impressive and hoped the word would get out and people would start to look at them as a excellent choice for lowering and improving the handling of their max.

Just a thought: Someone should try to get custommaxima to offer up a group deal on em.

 

is there any way to make the car even or just a tad higher in the rear. i love the way the vogtland drop looks but evan or higher in the rear is my preference is there a way to do this or not thanxs.

 

Use dem stock rear springs

 

ok i could do that cause at custom maxima they say the rear should be higher in the rear well thats what they say pics show different. what shocks are a good dependable shock ive heard lots of different stories any help would be appreciated thanxs

 

Not that I know of...short of substituting other springs.

 

I am glad to hear the possitive feedback too. I have looked into them, but I wasn't going to spend that kind of money without knowing what the effects on handling would be.

If we could only get someone who's had Htechs and Vogtlands for another comparison.

 

Just ordered some today and should have them installed by next week, hopefully. I will have them paired with my hp already on my car for about 3 months now. I have never been in a car with performance springs or owned one with performance springs so I will truely be able to tell you how comfortable they are.

 

Welcome to the Vogtland club, I know you will like them, make sure you give some more pics. Where did you end up getting yours from?

Fat

 

http://www.autoaccessorystore.com/ho...zard=1&s=&mid=

Is where I got them. I hope I will enjoy them and I will post before and after pics...

 

congrats! i hope you enjoy. i think you will be pleased. keep us posted.

 

Why do you hate them. I love mine.

bigfatty, did you cut your bumpstops?

 

Or, maybe a group buy directly with Richard at Vogtland. The Emails posted earlier show that he is good about communicating with the consumer.