Am I right?
Am I right?
I just want to make sure I understand the mechanics of cars and such, and well the 4th gen forums may not be the best place to do it, but I'm just wondering where I'm wrong so I can understand these things better, this is a conversation between a friend and I:
I'm questioning sensors and TB spacers, how do they work? I researched it a little and the theory is to put the injector farther away from the manifold so as to give a richer mixture and cause the ECU to tell the MAF to send more air, but I presume they don't make them for our cars, because I've seen my fuel injectors and well, I don't see how I'd move them away.
Thanks, just trying to learn a little bit
I'm questioning sensors and TB spacers, how do they work? I researched it a little and the theory is to put the injector farther away from the manifold so as to give a richer mixture and cause the ECU to tell the MAF to send more air, but I presume they don't make them for our cars, because I've seen my fuel injectors and well, I don't see how I'd move them away.
10:30:11 PM neoraven456: $500 is WAY too much for a MAF
10:30:20 PM neoraven456: at best like $150
10:30:51 PM friend: thats the wrong sensor i already have that
10:30:56 PM friend: its a fuel sensor
10:32:25 PM neoraven456: MAP sensor?
10:32:28 PM friend my intake wouldn't work if i didn't have that one
10:33:10 PM neoraven456: Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor?
10:33:15 PM friend: no
10:33:23 PM friend: its like mass fuel intake sensor
10:33:27 PM friend: hold on i'll show you
10:33:29 PM neoraven456: ok
10:38:25 PM friend: i can't find it right now
10:38:43 PM friend: i'm too interested in my throttle body and 10 more hp
10:39:09 PM neoraven456: a TB isn't going to give you 10 more hp
10:39:20 PM friend: with the sensor it will
10:39:36 PM friend: why do you think i'd spend money on a damn sensor if i didn't need it?
10:41:02 PM neoraven456: Im still not sure which sensor your talking about, but a sensor's not going to add power you didn't have before, just like if you have a bad 02 sensor, you'll fail emissions, etc... but your power will stay the same
10:42:07 PM friend: trust me dude it'll add it cuase ****in the kid with the wrx put one on his and he's got it all chipped and everything it was the same his buddy told him to swap out the sensor and he got liek 12 more
10:42:49 PM neoraven456: ok
10:43:19 PM friend: plus throttle body spacers sound sick with a intake on it
10:43:52 PM neoraven456: you mean loud? lol
10:44:26 PM friend: when you shift its almost ALMOST haha not really too lose but almost sounds like a blow off
10:45:03 PM neoraven456: wouldn't that hinder performance? I mean, I'm sure it sounds great and all
10:45:20 PM friend: its a spacer it builds up
10:45:29 PM neoraven456: but like, blow off valves let air go, and unless your boosted with extra air to spare, loosing air is only going to slow you down
10:45:45 PM neoraven456: build it up?
10:45:58 PM friend: its not a blow off it just sounds like one
10:46:13 PM neoraven456: Yeah I know, but what else is going to make that sound?
10:30:20 PM neoraven456: at best like $150
10:30:51 PM friend: thats the wrong sensor i already have that
10:30:56 PM friend: its a fuel sensor
10:32:25 PM neoraven456: MAP sensor?
10:32:28 PM friend my intake wouldn't work if i didn't have that one
10:33:10 PM neoraven456: Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor?
10:33:15 PM friend: no
10:33:23 PM friend: its like mass fuel intake sensor
10:33:27 PM friend: hold on i'll show you
10:33:29 PM neoraven456: ok
10:38:25 PM friend: i can't find it right now
10:38:43 PM friend: i'm too interested in my throttle body and 10 more hp
10:39:09 PM neoraven456: a TB isn't going to give you 10 more hp
10:39:20 PM friend: with the sensor it will
10:39:36 PM friend: why do you think i'd spend money on a damn sensor if i didn't need it?
10:41:02 PM neoraven456: Im still not sure which sensor your talking about, but a sensor's not going to add power you didn't have before, just like if you have a bad 02 sensor, you'll fail emissions, etc... but your power will stay the same
10:42:07 PM friend: trust me dude it'll add it cuase ****in the kid with the wrx put one on his and he's got it all chipped and everything it was the same his buddy told him to swap out the sensor and he got liek 12 more
10:42:49 PM neoraven456: ok
10:43:19 PM friend: plus throttle body spacers sound sick with a intake on it
10:43:52 PM neoraven456: you mean loud? lol
10:44:26 PM friend: when you shift its almost ALMOST haha not really too lose but almost sounds like a blow off
10:45:03 PM neoraven456: wouldn't that hinder performance? I mean, I'm sure it sounds great and all
10:45:20 PM friend: its a spacer it builds up
10:45:29 PM neoraven456: but like, blow off valves let air go, and unless your boosted with extra air to spare, loosing air is only going to slow you down
10:45:45 PM neoraven456: build it up?
10:45:58 PM friend: its not a blow off it just sounds like one
10:46:13 PM neoraven456: Yeah I know, but what else is going to make that sound?
Originally Posted by Neo Raven456
cause the ECU to tell the MAF to send more air
maf= mas air flow sensor
map=manifold absolute pressure sensor
the last one is much better more precise specially good on turbo engines some cars can be converted from maf to map ,don't know if someone have done it to a 4th gen max,the advantage is no restrictive tube between the filter and the tb and more accurate because it works on pressure rather than flow wich as a matter of fact change the temperature of the sensor inside tellingthe ecu "how much air goes into engine" but as you may expect changes in temperatures can vary like when using turbo or s/c thus less accurate less prone to malfunction less prone to get dirty
another thing the function of the bov is to vent the extra compressed air,is very important because as you rev your engine the turbo is building pressure when you shift from one gear to another or decelerate the tb closes so compressed air goes back if theres no bov it goes back to where it came from(unless you have a big leak or a connector blows from pressure) thus pushing the impeller and the shaft back overtime the shaft bearings goes bad beacause the back and forth motion
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
the function of the maf is to read the air that goes into the engine it does not control how much goes into
maf= mas air flow sensor
map=map absolute pressure sensor
the last one is much better more precise specially good on turbo engines some cars can be converted from maf to map ,don't know if someone have done it to a 4th gen max,the advantage is no restrictive tube between the filter and the tb and more accurate because it works on pressure rather than flow wich as a matter of fact change the temperature of the sensor inside tellingthe ecu "how much air goes into engine" but as you may expect changes in temperatures can vary like when using turbo or s/c thus less accurate less prone to malfunction less prone to get dirty
maf= mas air flow sensor
map=map absolute pressure sensor
the last one is much better more precise specially good on turbo engines some cars can be converted from maf to map ,don't know if someone have done it to a 4th gen max,the advantage is no restrictive tube between the filter and the tb and more accurate because it works on pressure rather than flow wich as a matter of fact change the temperature of the sensor inside tellingthe ecu "how much air goes into engine" but as you may expect changes in temperatures can vary like when using turbo or s/c thus less accurate less prone to malfunction less prone to get dirty
Btw, my friend drives a Ford Focus ZTS 2003, (V4 2.3L I believe), says he can take out my maxima easy, I doubt it, but I don't do street racing so we haven't raced.
So a MAP replaces the MAF, but where is the restrictive tube? Intake system, from IACV goes: IACV -> TB -> Midpipe -> Air Filter. Does it eliminate that pipe with several hoses on it?
Originally Posted by Neo Raven456
Right, MAF reads air, does the IACV control how much is actually let in?
Btw, my friend drives a Ford Focus ZTS 2003, (V4 2.3L I believe), says he can take out my maxima easy, I doubt it, but I don't do street racing so we haven't raced.
So a MAP replaces the MAF, but where is the restrictive tube? Intake system, from IACV goes: IACV -> TB -> Midpipe -> Air Filter. Does it eliminate that pipe with several hoses on it?
Btw, my friend drives a Ford Focus ZTS 2003, (V4 2.3L I believe), says he can take out my maxima easy, I doubt it, but I don't do street racing so we haven't raced.
So a MAP replaces the MAF, but where is the restrictive tube? Intake system, from IACV goes: IACV -> TB -> Midpipe -> Air Filter. Does it eliminate that pipe with several hoses on it?
it regulates a small amount of air than goes into the engine when idle for when you have your a/c on and or move the steering wheel as both runs from the engine engine the iacv sense the load and let a a little bit more air into the engine to compensate that load
one more note what may works wonders in a particular car may not work or even ron power on another and another advice besides taking everything you heard with a grain of salt read you learn a lot from magazines even from magazines not directly related to imports
as for the focuz have no idea but even when the max is a little bit heavier it may surprise your buddy but is a matter of driver
and in some cases you can replace the maf for a map but often requires a special adapter and doing some electrical work also it may require either to the use of a engine management that can read the different input signal and again i don't think nobody has done it yet with the exception of some turbo guy using a aem stand alone
the maf itself is restrictive it looks the same diameter as the rest of the tube outside but inside its like 2" or less in diameter
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
iacv=idle air control
it regulates a small amount of air than goes into the engine when idle for when you have your a/c on and or move the steering wheel as both runs from the engine engine the iacv sense the load and let a a little bit more air into the engine to compensate that load
one more note what may works wonders in a particular car may not work or even ron power on another and another advice besides taking everything you heard with a grain of salt read you learn a lot from magazines even from magazines not directly related to imports
as for the focuz have no idea but even when the max is a little bit heavier it may surprise your buddy but is a matter of driver
and in some cases you can replace the maf for a map but often requires a special adapter and doing some electrical work also it may require either to the use of a engine management that can read the different input signal and again i don't think nobody has done it yet with the exception of some turbo guy using a aem stand alone
the maf itself is restrictive it looks the same diameter as the rest of the tube outside but inside its like 2" or less in diameter
it regulates a small amount of air than goes into the engine when idle for when you have your a/c on and or move the steering wheel as both runs from the engine engine the iacv sense the load and let a a little bit more air into the engine to compensate that load
one more note what may works wonders in a particular car may not work or even ron power on another and another advice besides taking everything you heard with a grain of salt read you learn a lot from magazines even from magazines not directly related to imports
as for the focuz have no idea but even when the max is a little bit heavier it may surprise your buddy but is a matter of driver
and in some cases you can replace the maf for a map but often requires a special adapter and doing some electrical work also it may require either to the use of a engine management that can read the different input signal and again i don't think nobody has done it yet with the exception of some turbo guy using a aem stand alone
the maf itself is restrictive it looks the same diameter as the rest of the tube outside but inside its like 2" or less in diameter
I know there is a way to adjust your idle speed, with that little screw on the IACV, but does the electrical system have anything to do with it as well? I've noticed that when my RPM's drop they may dip into the 400's and my lights will dim at the same time until it catches itself.
Sometimes when it catches it self it rev's right to 1,500 for a couple seconds, then 1,000, then idle at 600/650
first try to see if you get any codes either using a obdII reader or using the old method (is in the facts) as for using other maf some people are using the 30ozx maf but it won't give a lots of gains unles turbo or s/c
I've used the old method, no codes, no ghost codes, nothin'. Reason I'm resorting to seeing if grounding the engine will help is because I've cleaned the TB, MAF, and IACV. I've replaced my Spark Plugs with some NGK's, replaced my PCV Valve, my Fuel Filter, and my battery. I check my Fuel Injectors, or at least #'s 1/2, 4, 5/6. #3 is kind of hard to get to and I wasn't feeling up to the task to take apart the intake manifold.
But the other 5 were working strong so I'm hoping #3 is too.
But the other 5 were working strong so I'm hoping #3 is too.
Ok well I'm not sure what the hell he's really talking about but comparing his focus to a wrx is bullsh!t. Yeah chipping some cars does actually do something but I'm not sure what exaclty (i dont know all cars). My roomates wrx was chipped and he said he gained hp. Not sure if he dynoed or what (another story). As was pointed out, the IACV controls how much air is allowed into you engine. Him buying a new tb won't do ****. You can put a PF tb on your car and go from a 60mm to a 70mm tb and not see a difference. It doesnt matter how much air you pull in if you still have stock manifolds and all that. TB spacers have been used on some cars but I have yet to see actual dyno proof that they create more power. IM spacers create more hp so a spacer would technically create some power too. Maybe 1hp. To me it seems like you friend is thinking he can add this stuff and gain instant hp when really he'll just gain some sound from it. There is no way he will gain 10hp from adding a tb and it will not sound like a blow off valve haha.
No MAP sensors do not replace MAFs. They are two different things. MAF sensor measure how dense the air is and sends a signal throw the hot wire to the PCM to control the fuel injection. Only 96+ models came with MAP sensors. They monitor the pressure inside the IM from speed and the load on the engine.
Yes people use a bigger MAF. Z32 I believe. I'm actually not positive what model car that comes off. I believe its not necessary unless with swapped engines, 00vi's maybe MEVI's, because again no point to try to get more air into the same stock IM.
Idle speed is adjusted between the IACV screw and the TPS. They will control where its at. If your idle drops to 400 thats not good. Your lights dimming is the car wanting to stall.
No MAP sensors do not replace MAFs. They are two different things. MAF sensor measure how dense the air is and sends a signal throw the hot wire to the PCM to control the fuel injection. Only 96+ models came with MAP sensors. They monitor the pressure inside the IM from speed and the load on the engine.
Yes people use a bigger MAF. Z32 I believe. I'm actually not positive what model car that comes off. I believe its not necessary unless with swapped engines, 00vi's maybe MEVI's, because again no point to try to get more air into the same stock IM.
Idle speed is adjusted between the IACV screw and the TPS. They will control where its at. If your idle drops to 400 thats not good. Your lights dimming is the car wanting to stall.
Originally Posted by Neo Raven456
I've used the old method, no codes, no ghost codes, nothin'. Reason I'm resorting to seeing if grounding the engine will help is because I've cleaned the TB, MAF, and IACV. I've replaced my Spark Plugs with some NGK's, replaced my PCV Valve, my Fuel Filter, and my battery. I check my Fuel Injectors, or at least #'s 1/2, 4, 5/6. #3 is kind of hard to get to and I wasn't feeling up to the task to take apart the intake manifold.
But the other 5 were working strong so I'm hoping #3 is too.
But the other 5 were working strong so I'm hoping #3 is too.
air filter
try to test coils
test maf
any vacuum hose disconnected
also go and buy the haynes manual for the max it tells you a lot of info and show you how to trouble shoot your car
I actually have the Haynes manual, keep it in my trunk along with my toolbag incase I need to fix something on the road.
I'm going to simply replace the air filter with another Monster Flow.
How do I test coil packs? Multimeter?
How do I test MAF? same way?
I'm fairly sure all the hoses are connected, I don't hear any leaks. I have several other threads with video's of the problem, one point in time it made a gargling sound and it sounded like my exhaust was under my hood followed by a strong smell of gas which lead to me my fuel injector which seem to be ok.
I'm going to simply replace the air filter with another Monster Flow.
How do I test coil packs? Multimeter?
How do I test MAF? same way?
I'm fairly sure all the hoses are connected, I don't hear any leaks. I have several other threads with video's of the problem, one point in time it made a gargling sound and it sounded like my exhaust was under my hood followed by a strong smell of gas which lead to me my fuel injector which seem to be ok.
Originally Posted by Neo Raven456
I actually have the Haynes manual, keep it in my trunk along with my toolbag incase I need to fix something on the road.
I'm going to simply replace the air filter with another Monster Flow.
How do I test coil packs? Multimeter?
How do I test MAF? same way?
I'm fairly sure all the hoses are connected, I don't hear any leaks. I have several other threads with video's of the problem, one point in time it made a gargling sound and it sounded like my exhaust was under my hood followed by a strong smell of gas which lead to me my fuel injector which seem to be ok.
I'm going to simply replace the air filter with another Monster Flow.
How do I test coil packs? Multimeter?
How do I test MAF? same way?
I'm fairly sure all the hoses are connected, I don't hear any leaks. I have several other threads with video's of the problem, one point in time it made a gargling sound and it sounded like my exhaust was under my hood followed by a strong smell of gas which lead to me my fuel injector which seem to be ok.
Originally Posted by Cdg2125
do you have a clogged injector? both coils and maf are tested by multimeter. Nothing difficult.
No the tank stuff won't really unclogged it. It's more to clean injectors that are getting dirty I believe. You can try to check those. It might be a source but I would say test all the other stuff first.
MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure.
Originally Posted by MorpheusZero
I want a map absolute pressure sensor. 
Would seafoaming do any good in my case? I started up the car today, walked around it right after starting and it smelt of fuel, but it didn't have a rough start and was just idling high due to a cold start
some people will tell you seafoaming works great, others wont. i personally havnt done it because there is a possability of killing 02sensors and causing problems with the car. suposibly there is this stuff called auto-rx that wont harm the car and works good. i havnt tryed that either. but i know you have to order it from their website and its like $20 a bottle or something...
i think the website is auto-rx.com...if not try searching google for it
i think the website is auto-rx.com...if not try searching google for it
Originally Posted by MorpheusZero
Yeah I don't think he actually meant "map absolute pressure," was more of a brain fart. 
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 163
I'm getting off topic here, but auto-rx will not touch your fuel injectors, cannot clean your intake, and will not fix any sensors. What it may possibly do is clean up some deposits in your engine's lubrication paths, and claims it can clean ring landings to restore some compression. The best it can do is cause no harm. It also lightens your wallet a chunk.
Yes, I have used it as prescribed in two high-mileage engines, and I noticed no improvement afterwards. (Supporters retorted that it cleaned parts that I'd have to disassemble the engine to see, but if that doesn't improve fuel consumption, smoothness, seals, etc, then it doesn't do me any good.) At least it didn't create any problems! But the almost $90 I spent would cover a bunch of normal PM.
Yes, I have used it as prescribed in two high-mileage engines, and I noticed no improvement afterwards. (Supporters retorted that it cleaned parts that I'd have to disassemble the engine to see, but if that doesn't improve fuel consumption, smoothness, seals, etc, then it doesn't do me any good.) At least it didn't create any problems! But the almost $90 I spent would cover a bunch of normal PM.
Well judging buy your post it's a waste of money for sea-foam too. Why not take off your IM and injectors and actually clean them? It will save you money on the sea-foam. Of everyone I've talked to you've been the only one who doesn't like the results of auto-rx. And it's not like you would really see an improvments. It's internal engine components. The point is to clean them. I doubt a car could be that bad that you would notice a difference from cleaning it. It's just to keep things clean and running nicely.
I suppose this could be a sunday project, will I need new O-rings for simply taking them out and putting them back in?
Also what should I do to clean them?
This whole issue would be so much easier if whatever was wrong would set off a code and I could target the issue.
Also what should I do to clean them?
This whole issue would be so much easier if whatever was wrong would set off a code and I could target the issue.
yeah these types of issues suck. They recommend you put new orings in but I would only do that if the ones you have are messed up. Make sure you keep them clean and if they look bad then replace them. Injector cleaner I think should do fine. If you take them out you can soak them for a night and put them back in in the morning. I can't remember if people use a specific thing for soaking them tho.
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by Cdg2125
Well judging buy your post it's a waste of money for sea-foam too. Why not take off your IM and injectors and actually clean them? It will save you money on the sea-foam. Of everyone I've talked to you've been the only one who doesn't like the results of auto-rx. And it's not like you would really see an improvments. It's internal engine components. The point is to clean them. I doubt a car could be that bad that you would notice a difference from cleaning it. It's just to keep things clean and running nicely.
Now if it were cleaning the interior of the car where you sit and breathe that's another case, because cleanliness there is significant even though it doesn't improve the operation of the car.
Auto-rx goes in the engine oil, so yes, it can do absolutely nothing to the injectors or intake manifold, and it doesn't claim to either. If you (whomever, not pointing at Cdg) haven't done so and want to clean your intake I suggest starting with the easiest: Clean the throttle body. The other part our max that often needs to be cleaned is the EGR tube that enters the intake, just past the throttle body. These are issues mentioned in the stickies and discussed in several threads.
Cdg wrote: "Of everyone I've talked to you've been the only one who doesn't like the results of auto-rx." It simply wasn't cost effective for me, and remember that the Internet is also used as a marketing tool.
I highly doubt I am the only one who spent money on auto-rx and got nothing significant in return. Forums provide an opportunity for discussion, and I present my experience. Yours may be different, and it's your money.
Peace.
Fair post. But I people there is a much higer percentage of people who used seafoam and were disappointed thatn auto-rx. They do do different things tho. Thats why I said it's better just to take off the IM and tb if you want to clean it than using seafoam. Actually being able to scrub is much better than having the foam coat over it. I agree that there must be people with results from auto-rx that werent that great but that would mean that they didn't need it in the first place. Both products will not restore the car back to new but will help internally. I would say that there is no harm using both products as long as your wallet is open haha.