well as you can see i didn't break the 12's. i'm a little disappointed but it is what it is, and my driving wasn't the best either. i definitely need to practice shifting into fourth as i normally never do that quickly. anyways..

it was great to meet Harold and David at the track. thanks Harold for hooking my up with the gas and plugs. that is defnitely some strong stuff....the car was having a ruff time running on it...until the nitrous kicked it

i was the only front wheel drive car at KCIR on saturday out of a hundred or more cars. so i definitely was a little nervous...well...This was with a 75 shot....here's the breakdown...

first run, i freakin missed fourth gear.....sucks.. i thought since i ran a 13.2 missing fourth that i could get 12's...but apparently not the case.

60'......1.941
330'.....5.491
1/8.......8.441 @ 83.86
1000.....11.008
1/4....... 13.223 @ 103.01

2nd run i won't even post....the freakin slicks were wet and so i spun like crazy off the line...i did trap 105 though. third run i was determined to get right. and i did...

60'......1.861
330'.....5.427
1/8......8.405 @ 83.23
1000....10.968
1/4......13.142 @ 104.77

fourth and final run i freakin missed fourth again. i don't think this run would have been a 12 second pass...but it for sure would have been a 13.0xx

60'......1.826
330'.....5.396
1/8......8.381 @ 83.81
1000....10.962
1/4......13.197 @ 101.74

now i didn't really want to post the times where i missed fourth gear but i just thought that i would share. but what i learned from this is i need to get to 1/4 mile tracks more to practice fourth gear and my local track is inaccurate. my local track apparently i ran a 10.69 1000'...no way..i'm struggling to get a 10.9 here. so anyways...that's my experience with KCIR.

 

hmm yeah that's weird, definitely looks like your local 1000' track is off a bit on the 1000' times since all the other times were very consistent.

 

3-4 should be an easier shift than 2-3 (for me it is at least), just practice a bit and you'll have it down NP. Nice times, I know the dissapointment of running higher times than you hoped for.

Also, judging from that 1/8th mile trap, I would expect 105-106mph traps to be more normal for you. It's definately got 12s.

 

yeah Neal i agree with you man. is off a bit...

sparks03max, yeah it should be easier haha...it seems like its easier to "push" the shifter down rather than "pull" it down. do you know what i mean? 3-4th kind of needs to go down to the right a tad. and when i would pull on it i would pull more left than right. so the one run that i actually got it i pushed it down. i just put my hand around the shifter on the drivers side rather than the passenger side. i don't know if i made that clear but either way i need to practice. haha.

you think it has 12's? i MAY try one more time at a closer 1/4mile track. i really would like to get a 12 second pass with this setup before the 3.5.

 

Do you have a short shifter? I swear to god, i never missed shifts, untill i put my short shifter, in, and thats how i killed my old engine...3rd gear to second gear at about 90mph and a documented 7817rpm. Blew my oil pump, but still drove another 8 miles home fine.

Anyways nice times, although your ET's seem kinda low. Ill post a video that shows how to properly hold a shifter. I Cant find it, but i think you figured it out anyways. You pull the shifter back, but instead of your hand wrapping around so your fingers would point to the drivers side, you want to do it where you fingers point to the passenger side. Its kinda uncomfortable, but it pretty much eliminates the chance of the 3-2 shift lol.

 

what size shot is this with again

 

ET's seem slow? as in all of them or just 1/4? i'm pretty sure my 00vi was activating...

maybe i need to check my compression



sorry....this was a 75 shot

 

I think you made a great day of it. You trapped nearly 105 MPH - the 1/8 times are strong, and your third pass was quicker than my old 3.0 PB with a 150-shot. Impressive.

You got to experience a real 1/4 track - granted, a little damp still after the rains on Friday, but the total experience should have been worth the long trip you made to get there. The next time you go to one, you'll understand more about what's going on.

That's how you learn this business - just in there and do it! And take notes and correct what's wrong.... you'll be better the next time around.

You never said what tire pressure you used there ??? from the look of your 60' times, it was fine.... Did you run Trophy class ??

Now I really regret we didn't get to square off on Friday night - that could have been a great show! Maybe some other day..

Good job.

 

thanks grey. it was good to meet you and your car is freakin awesome! can't wait for next season!

the experience was definitely worth it. i was a little scared being the ONLY front wheel drive out of more than 100 cars and for sure the only nissan. i was a little worried about the guy in the tower you were talking about! haha...i know what you mean now. there were two cavaliers that were rear wheel drive and running freakin 8's. and the announcer was like " and here we have a cavalier....that's now CORRECT wheel drive" !! haha...so i stayed clear of that guy...

i did start in the trophy class but ran against a guy in the 9's so i switched over to the foot brake class. so i switched over i have to say i don't really like bracket racing...i'm definitely not consistent enough for it. although i did get a .001 light haha

i had 11-12 psi in the slicks...again i was so rushed that i would check them but there's no telling what they were when i actually raced.

well...i'm going to give 12's one more shot at a closer track in Memphis TN...think it can do it?

i should have gotten those 100shot jets before you left!!!

 

So you survived the "tower troll" - that's great.. He loves to take cheap shots at FWD imports and imports with nitrous.

I've got plans for my 100-shot jets, but all you need is a 52-nitrous and 31-fuel jet. NX sells directly, you know. This eBay store has both real NX sizes for $4.50 each, plus shipping:
http://stores.ebay.com/Jackrabbit-Motorsports

 

can't wait to see the plans for the 100 shot jets

i think i will go to memphis in a couple weeks and try for 12's again.

 

Maybe both sets of 100-shot jets...... Heh.... there are November Sunday track days left in this years schedule at KCIR, so I will be trying.

You do have a quick car there... bet you can crack into the 12s.

 

....

 

I'm glad they let you run on Saturday and you're trip was worthwhile. I was wondering about that all weekend. Looking at your times makes my 1.55 equation appear even more legit for the 1/8 mile to 1/4 mile conversion

IMO, there may be a problem with your nitrous setup, fuel delivery, timing, detonation, or something because you're loosing topend. Your ET is pretty dang good, but your MPH on your clean run seems a bit low by about 2-3mph. The reason I say this is because my fully optioned 96 SE 5MT (MEVI, JWT ECU, hacked airbox, y-pipe) was getting 14.3-14.4@99-100mph with upper 2.1 60 foots at KCIR. If I were running slicks and pulling upper 1.8 60 foots, I'd be seeing 13.7ish@100mph. That would put you a solid .6 ahead which makes sense for a 75hp shot, but I would have thought you MPH would be more in the 107-108mph range. You're only gaining 21mph in the last 1/8 where I'd expect you to be seeing 24ish. My 96 was seeing almost 23mph which is the same as my G.

Do you add race fuel? If not, consider getting as close to 100 octane mix and see what happens next time.

 

Update:

The density altitude yesterday was in the 1,500' range so that was sucking about .15 seconds and over 1mph. You probably could have had that 12-second run if it hadn't rained on Friday. The DA when we were at the track was in the 500' range.

As for grabbing 4th quickly, that's easy. Invert your hand, thumb down, wrap your hand around the front of the shifter. You'll never miss 4th.

 

Sorry i meant your MPH seemed a little low, not the ET. Yeah, Dave B pretty much nailed it in the head, what i was trying to explain, how you hold the shifter can play a big role on miss shifts!

 

uhm....that's interesting.

i know for sure when i hit fourth the car feels like its falling flat on its face pretty much. i know what both of you guys are saying....uhm. i'm thinking to put newer plugs in and see if it might help? i really don't know. i just know that i've trapped 84 in the 1/8th before and i haven't done it in a long time...

David. i was using 109 racing fuel for these runs. and thanks for checking the weather and DA...i didn't even think about those details...its possible ?

is it possible to have too high of nitrous pressure therefore causing leaner mixture which will mean pulling timing? just fourth seems horrible for some reason....


edit: just looked at greys 3.0 slip and obviously there is something wrong with my car. he had a USIM and gained 23 mph...i have 00vi and only gained 21mph....any ideas for me to check????? i know my 00vi is activating....so anything i should be checking for? i'm totally lost....

 

Are you sure it's activating when it's hot? Because sometimes they don't like to......

Side note, maxima92ve put 100 miles on his vq after blowing his pump during a missed shift

 

Agreed. What kind of rpm switch are you running to activate the butterfly valves. With my MEVI, I had the Harlan RPM switch and that thing was nothing up trouble. It worked maybe 80% of the time and seemed to fail almost everytime when I was at the track. It would also have a tendency to open the valve (you can hear the induction change) and then it would close them shortly thereafter. Very annoying. To get around the flakey rpm switch, I wired up an inline manual toggle switch setup that way I had total control on the VI at the strip. Once I was past 5500rpms in 2nd, I flipped the switch to open the valves and left them open the entire rest of the run because rpms on each shift never dropped below 5300rpms. You should definitely be seeing more than 21mph in the last 1/8 mile. With the USIM, I'd see 21mph.

As for your potentially lean mixture, I'd suggest getting the car dynoed with and without nitrous. You really need to know what your car is doing because the last thing you want to have is detonation in heavy load gear like 3rd or 4th.

Was that 109 fuel leaded? I've always been told that any fuel of 104 octane is leaded and that leaded is no good assuming you still have a cat.

 

....

well i'm using the summit rpm switch. i had my friend check at the track while i revved it up and he said the valve moved. i've never notice it NOT work sometime....i know it had to be working because one time at my local track the power wire came loose on the switch and i couldn't trap more than 81 in the 1/8th....so is it possible to work it third then not work in fourth?? didn't Dandymax gut his? i might do this....i'll have to search for that.

so the only way to check why it falls on its face in fourth would be to get it dynoed? it just really feels like it stops pulling....makes me this the A/F mixture is way off and doesn't like that big load....

i'm assuming it is leaded. i know the car had a little rough time staying running when i used the fuel. Grey gave it too me and i thought it would be fine to use since he uses it on his car. i need to get this figured out

could compression be a possible cause? i don't know much about this....but it my head it makes sense. the more load the less compression the engine can make....??

 

His fuel was VP Racing 109 - unleaded. Also, Sunoco 104 is unleaded. And I always had a MEVI with custom MSD 8969 switch controlling the butterflies.

Since we didn't look at his plugs Friday night, my guess is that he may be having a high-speed misfire which drops your top end some. He now has a set of modified two-step-cooler plugs grapped at .035 which might help. A top end of 105 says things are good - if he can catch the 4th gear shift. I seriously doubt he had detonation with the 109 octane fuel.

 

so Harold you think if i change these plugs out i'll be fine?

do you have any thoughts on the compression aspect? as in why it feels to die in fourth? i think i'm going to check compression and change plug this weekend...

 

it is entirely possible to have your VI open while testing it in neutral in the pits but have it not opening when you are WOT going down the track. the reason for this would be a bad vacuum cansiter.

as you know, vacuum is what sucks the VI valve open. in neutral, when you are testing, you aren't WOT and thus your engine is still creating it's own vacuum and sucking the VI open even if you have a bad vac canister. at WOT, your engine does not create vacuum - that's why you have the vac canister. the vac canister "stores" vacuum that is created while you are NOT at WOT, for your VI to use to activate itself when you go WOT and lose all that vacuum in the intake manifold.

i don't know if that is what's going on here but it's a possibility.

 

thanks Neal for that info....i'm curious then how exactly i would test that? so its possible for it to work 1st, 2nd, 3rd, then mess up in 4th?

i've been thinking alot about what Dave B said. I've been looking at some other time slips to figure out the norm.

plurco is one using nitrous and he trapped 84 in the 1/8 then 104 in the 1/4. so that's only 20 mph.

Dandymax, who we all praise for having a beast of a 3.0 , trapped 86 in the 1/8th and 108 in the 1/4. that's 22 mph. and he has a bunch of top end.

Aaron92se uses nitrous and also gain 21 mph...
Kevin007 gained 21 mph....
a trend with nitrous??

although i did notice Grey's 3.0 slip....he went from 81 to 104....but i know he used a two stage 150....so i'm not sure...

so nitrous shines at the low end of the track. so don't my times make sense? i would think that 105 MAYBE a 106 is the maximum i would trap....and i might have trapped a 105 on my one good run but it could have been a slow shift...it was 104.77....faster shifts and for sure 105....

make sense? or am i way off...

 

Neal has a good point - if you are losing vacuum in the canister, the 00V1 could be closing slowly as you progress through the gears - shifting creates vacuum, but just for a very short period of time. On the other hand, without beastly HP, your 4th gear acceleration won't be as strong as the lower gears. 105 MPH is a strong top end in the traps, for a 75-shot.

Sure, check compression (warm) and change out the plugs - be sure and check gap before installing them - but I bet your compression is fine. Look closely at your old plugs - any signs of damage or blisters like we saw on the plug from the Mustang with 500-shot nitrous kit installed? (that guy lives about four blocks away from me, it turns out). Hope you're not using OEM platinum plugs now?

You can't second-guess yourself too much - your car is what it is - just learn to drive it consistently...

 

Yes, it is possible. My VI would do that and it seemed that if the butterfly valves were opened and closed rapidly (ie the 1-2 shift), it would flake out the rpm switch. I had the Summit switch for a few weeks, but it was more unreliable than the Harlen switch. I suggest buying a $2 toggle switch and wiring it in line and having full control of the VI when you're making a pass.

What rpm do you have the switch set at?

Every dyno I've seen of a car on nitrous shows that the power curve completely elevates, as if the car had a 20-50% increase in displacement. I would think that a 70whp increase in the powerband along with the breathing ability of the VI would show turbo-like power in last 1/8 mile with big topend acceleration (ie 24-25mph gains). Maybe I'm off my rocker though. You're car without nitrous should do 100-101mph so maybe 106mph is realistic for your setup. I'm sure there's more power to be found if you went with a fancier management system like Grey or Jime use.

 

....

 

ok well if its possible for the 00vi internal vac canister to loose vacuum then how i can check this??

 

Its time to get on the dyno. When they're dynoing the car, watch and make sure it is activating.

 

I made a thread when it was confirmed on the dyno that my mevi would open then slowly close at wot. to fix the problem I got a vac pump and test the soleniod, vac can and found that the hose was leaking fixed it clamped everything. then I made a bracket that connected to the actutor arm to a light so when the mevi opened the light would come on and this is how I confirmed it was fixed

as for your trap 105 is good and if you want more power in fourth gear spray more nitrous. like harold said your car is not going to pull the 4th as it did in 2nd

last nitrous makes more tq down low and tq is what gives you that kick in the pants and pins you to your seat this is why most nitrous cars normally do better in the 1st 1/8 than turbo cars

btw almost forgot you maybe loosing bottle psi towards the end of the track

 

Hummm.. He does have a 10lb bottle in the trunk - at 75-shot, it might be cooling down and dropping pressure some - but I still think the 4th gear pull can't be as strong as the lower gears.

This is why I use two stages - to get the extra pull at the top end, once the slicks are hooked up.

 

would you be able to see whether or not an 00vi is open or not from the driver's seat while driving around if you hood was removed? if so, you could do that if you don't want to put it on a dyno.

 

ok great info guys. thank you much!

i will see if i can get a friend to help me look or rig up a mirror or something so i can watch the power valve arm. i do like the light idea

question though....if i find out that my 00vi isn't holding vacuum and its closing back how do i fix this? a new 00vi? or should i just take out the power valve?

 

good 60 foots

 

Most people jb weld the power rod to the cup inside. I think there are a few pics in ceasers swap thread to show how to do it. I have a feeling mine is not opening also so I'll be taking my VIAS apart soon.

 

It would be safer if you'd just get a vacuum gauge and apply vacuum to the system and see if the valves close when you release vacuum. I remeber I had a one way valve installed in-line on one of the vacuum lines going to the vacuum tank. Are you running something similiar?

 

since i'm running nitrous would it be fine just to remove the power valve all together? nitrous will make up for low end loss correct? then i'll make more top end....

 

weird how nx calls this a 100shot and zex/dynotune calls this a 125 guess all this time I have been running a 75shot going by nx standards

well I feel better cause that means I ran a 13.9 on like a 50shot when I was a auto

 

Seems like there are lots of opinions about nitrous jet sizes, doesn't there? Some of those opinions are based on the different ways companies claim HP for their jet choices, and some are urban legends....

To quote the NX nitrous installation manual, for Nissans '92-2003 , based on a FFP of 43 psi, 35HP needs 31N/18F jets, a 50HP needs 35N/20F and a 75-shot uses 41N/24F jets. Jimes' old web site stated a 100-shot NX used a 52N/31F jet combination. Is this correct? I don't know. The 150-shot combination needed a 62N/33F set of jets... I never tried this combo.

I do know that my last chassis dyno in KC, where I used the 50-shot and 75-shot jets (using the listed jets) in one and both stages, the WHP matched the shot-level almost exactly, up to a 50-shot plus 75-shot combination which added 132 WHP to the ground. NX specs seems to be accurate.

Dynotune's jet calculator says a 100-shot requires a 47N/27F combination, a 125-shot is 53N/31F, and a 150-shot needs 58N/33F jets. I don't know if this is crank HP or WHP, but it's different. Their 75-shot jets say 41N/24F is needed, which matches NX jet sizes. Their 50-shot specs are 33N/19F - not NX's 35N/20F 50-shot jets.

So you pays your money and takes your chances - or get a bucket-o-jets, warm up your A/F meter and a bottle of nitrous and get on your favorite dyno.

 

That's an idea - the nitrous will boost the HP the same, and power at the top end will be guaranteed to "be all it can be"..

Drive up here on Sunday and try it again. Track opens at 11:30 AM and closes at 4PM. Good weather forecast, too.