This topic seems to be very popular around here. After doing a search and reading through numerous threads, it's still not clear how you differentiate between the two.

I am about to buy a 92 SE 5spd and I'm hearing a clicking/ticking sound when I'm on the accelerator. What exactly am I hearing and how do I know for sure that it isn't the VTC's?? I don't have the doh to do any type of extensive engine work. I'm putting everything I have into buying the car.

The engine only has 106 KMS!! = 62,000 miles (approx).

I really need your wisdom here guys.

Z~

 

My guess: It's the VTCs.

To be 100% sure, have it inspected by a Nissan dealer.

If VTCs are the problem, I would seriously rethink about "putting everything I have into buying this car". VTC work is about $2k nowdays to get done right from the dealer.

 

I just called my Nissan dealer that I use for servicing my wife's Altima and he said that it has been a very long time since he's seen anyone having to do a VTC rebuild.

He suggested that what I was hearing was the fuel injectors?? That didn't make sense to me. I would think lifters but not injectors.

The sound is really light. I remember Acura Legend engine making the same type of sound and they had lifter issues.

 

That's because it costs like $2k and no one wants to spend that kind of $ on a 10 year old car. Injectors make a soft click at idle and you can't hear it w/ the hood closed from the driver's seat. Any clicks you can hear from inside the car is probably the VTCs. Did you read this already?

http://www.geocities.com/maximamike/nvcs-bible.html

It could be the lifters I guess but I've not really heard that from any VE30DE engine guys here.

Again, since VTCs cost like $2k, why not take to him to be sure?

 

I just made an appointment at the dealership. You're totally right. Makes no sense not to spend the $40 to get it checked out if it's going to save me so much in the future.

I just hope it doesn't take more than the 1/2 hour to figure out if that's the problem or not.

I really hope it isn't the VTC's. This car has all the options including ABS and Leather. It's going to cost me after taxes, $6500 CDN. Which is not bad at all for this kinda car.

While the car is at the shop, should I get them to look at anything else??

 

Exhaust manifold studs(ask if any are broken) This is another pricey fix. Brakes, fluids, cv joints, power steering rack, rust, previous body damage, etc...normal stuff.

 

Thanks Jeff.

It's funny. All the reviews that you read about these cars go on and on about how relaible they and fail to mention the VTC issue.

The guys at this Nissan Dealer that I'll be going to are acting like it's the first time that they have heard of this issue!!

The oil in the engine looks pretty clean and there are many stickers in the door jams indicating that oil changes were performed as recommended.

What's the worst that can happen if you don't have the problem fixed?

Thanks for all your help.

 

Worst is that the assembly will fall apart and ruin your heads(valves will touch pistons and bend all the valves up). I've heard of that happening once here. Most just live with it or ground the solenoids. Search for "VTC ground" and you will get more info. It's not a dealer fix(DIY fix for noise only-not the correct fix)

Dealers! haha. Yeah, they have never heard of it, but there are no less than TWO technical service bulletins on these. One for upper valvetrain noise and one for the VTC assemblies themselves

 

your best bet to find out if it's the VTCs or not is to ground the VTC solenoids (search for "VTC rewire" or "VTC ground" and you'll find great instructions on craig B's website). it's a 3 minute job, and you can do it with only a small piece of wire and some wire cutters... at least for a temporary job to find out if it's the problem.

start the car and listen for the tick.. if it's there, ground the VTCs.. if the ticking goes away, then it's VTCs. if it doesn't go away, then it's probably en exhaust manifold leak or other problem.

 

So I guess ticking/clicking of any kind spells trouble...

Such a beautiful car... I really want it!!

 

I just dropped my car off this morning to have the VTC's replaced. For your information, each one (you'll need 2) was $488 from Nissan. Also, I'm paying about 500 in labor, bringing the grand total to about $1500 for the repair. It's a tough decision, but I felt like I had no other choice. I've been dealing with these VTC's for well over a year, and I love my Maxima, so I decided to fix it once and for all. I thought about my options for a while, such as selling the car or just running it for as long as it would go on grounded VTC's. I figured I could get maybe 4 grand for it, probably less be cause of the loudness of the VTC's and the high mileage. That type of money could buy me possibly another VE, but that too would come with its share of problems. I've done all repairs to my car myself, and have upgraded a few things, so I figured I'd fix the car that I'd put the wrench time into.

 

You had better make sure the Nissan ah..tech follows the tsb about making sure the oil gallies are clean or else right about when the repair warranty runs out, the VTCs will come back to haunt you.

 

Where do I go to get a print out of the VTC TSB for myself?

 

I actually decided against having the job done at Nissan, because my mechanic works exclusively on Nissan cars, and has done so since the 70's. He has done many VTC replacements and really knows what he's talking about with them. He had a VTC assembly on hand and showed me how it worked, what goes wrong, and why it goes wrong. I figure I'm pretty lucky to have found a trustworthy, experienced mechanic who doesn't overcharge like Nissan does.

 

I have actually decided not to buy the car.

I will be putting everything I have into buying the car and with having a new baby and my wife being off work and with everything that goes with owning a home, I will not be able to pay for any costly repairs.

This truly was one of my dream cars. Oh well, maybe later in life I'll pick up a 2k2 SE.

Thanks for all your help guys, you saved me a ton of money.

 

Can you expand on that? I would like to know a mechanic's view

 

I'll try to explain as best I can, but you may have to excuse the extremely simplified description, since I don't know the exact names of each part of the VTC assemblies.

I'm not sure if you have actually looked at an actual VTC assembly before, but it looks basically like a small cylinder with splines that slide into a larger, hollow cylinder that also has splines on it. The rebuild kit comes with a small disk and a spring (it's amazing how little you get for 50 bucks). I assume the disk is what compresses the spring against the assembly. Anyway, he talked about the lack of lubrication and the problems that it can cause, but also how that spring can loose a bit of it's tension. I could see how the splines were torn up on the VTC assembly, which is what was causing the noise in the car it was removed from. You can imagine how a ticking sound would be produced if the smaller cylinder were allowed to move back and forth within the larger one. It'd be a similar situation if the splines on one of your axles were all chewed up - the axle would obviously slip around and make some weird noises. I talked to him about grounding the assembly, like so many of us have done. Basically, when you ground the VTC's, you deactivate the solenoid and release the oil pressure to them. This he said was probably not a good idea, as the severe lack of lubrication will accelerate the disintegration of the disk (the one that comes with the rebuild kit), which as we all know would ruin the engine. When I asked a tech at Nissan about grounding the VTC's, he said doing so could cause them to "freeze." I'm assuming he was talking about the same thing.

As far as rebuilding the assemblies goes, I now understand why the ticking can return after a couple thousand miles. When you use the rebuild kit, you replace the loose springs with new ones and put the assembly back together tightly. However, this does nothing for the splines on the assembly, which could be sereverly damaged. It makes sense that it is only a matter of time until it begins to slip again.

On a side note, he mentioned that the Infinity G20 has similar asseblies, but I guess they don't fail like the Maxima's.

If any of this is unclear (which I'm sure it probably is), just post again and I'll do my best to answer any questions. Also, I'll be picking the car up either tomorrow or Thursday, so if anyone has any good questions, I'll be glad to ask when I'm there.

 

Naw. I have seen the TSB on the VTCs and it shows the blown up view of the assemblies. So I know what you are talking about.

Interesting view on the splines though. If the mechanic doesn't cure the intial cause of the failure(sludge in the gallies), the VTCs will tick again. Especially if the splines were damaged as you say. Most of this stuff is covered in my FAQ link.

Thanks though

 

Yeah he mentioned cleaning out the galleys - that was something I learned about a year ago when doing research on the things. Basically, my point was this: even if you do a perfect rebuild, the splines on the assemblies may still be damaged, and they will fail again, no matter how closely you follow the TSB.

 

Intially I had both rebuilt at Nissan. One failed(rear) and they refused to honor their service warranty(bastards!) So I went ahead and replaced the rear w/ a new one. That was at about 75k. I'm a 132k. Both of them have been quiet(one rebuilt and one new(by me). It goes to show, it's a crapshoot w/ rebuilt ones.

 

I'm interested in the design differences between the G20 and the Maxima VTC's. I'm sure it has something to do with a more efficient lubrication of the assemblies, but just for the sake of knowledge, I'd like to find out - anybody know about this one?

 

Interesting stuff Eric. Makes sense according to the FSM on how VTCs function. So if we're deactivating them (permanently OFF) the solenoid always has the oil draining through it rather than being forced through the VTC assembly where it pushes on a ring-shaped piston. So I suppose I can see how that could be bad for lubricating these splines you mention.

I'm just happy mine work!

BTW, I've heard lots of people say the VTCs are for top-end power, but in the FSM it looks like they advance the cam timing for increased low-end power (which makes sense for a 24-valve DOHC engine if you ask me). And even then only if "engine load is high", so I suppose just driving around normally you wouldn't notice the difference anyway...

 

Interesting that you mention the low-end power. My mechanic told me I'd notice a difference at low speeds, which would make sense if that's what they're for. I believe I'm correct when I say this, please let me know if I'm wrong, but isn't the timing advanced when the VTC's malfunction. This would make sense - the timing has been advanced for optimal high-end power but is unable to lower itself because the VTC's are malfunctioning. This would then lower the performance at low engine speeds. Sound right?

 

It's true that the VTC's are for low end power only. They advance the intake cam to increase the torque at lower engine speeds. This is why the VE engine has such a nice flat torque band. Somewhere between 3000-3500 rpms the VTC's disengage and the intake cams go back to normal, then it's all pure DOHC 24 valve motor from there on up. Basically, Nissan built a screamer 3.0 liter V-6 from the start, then added the VTC's to make it more drivable around town.

I myself currently have both my heads off and am replacing both VTC's with new units. I have cleaned all the oil galleys with wire and pipe cleaners, and I really haven't found any sludge at all. There is a very thin layer of varnish (brownish discoloration from oil) all over the heads but that is typical of any engine. In my opinion this engine looks very clean for having 123K miles.

Interesting note: When I was setting my engine to TDC I was rotating the intake cam using the VTC on the front head because I didn't have a socket big enough for the main pulley. When I pulled, I heard a SNAP and a tiny bit of oil sprayed out of the VTC. I manually made it "fail" and make the ticking noise by hand! That sucker is loose! I have no idea if that is normal though, but I'm guessing maybe my splines were bad, at least in that one.