I had a discusion with some friends on which is faster, a 2k2max 6spd or a 2k2 altima 5 spd. I think the max is faster. What do u guys think? Are there any sites with 1/4 times for both cars? Which car is heavier?

 

this has come up dozens of times. no one knows the real answer. the maxima SHOULD be faster with 15 more HP but street races and magazine times and track times are all very similar. some mags say the altima is faster some say the max is faster. both cars are almost identical in weight though i think its said that the altima is 1 LB heavier. we'll only know the truth after some time has passed.

 

I have one of the mags that says the Altima is faster (Sport Compact Car). They have 15.0 for the quarter mile for the Max. I've seen many people on the .org runnin low 14's with the 6 speed, and mid 14's for the automatic. So, you can't believe everything you read. I doubt that the Altima can beat a Max. JMHO.

 

I have $5 that says that they used a stop watch with two people in the car ... one to concentrate on his double clutching and the other to trust the speedometer's accuracy as he pushes the stop button

Considering that they NEVER publish HP/TQ numbers and performance data, I doubt that they have a radar gun much less a third wheel measuring device. I completely don't trust their results. Besides, since when is the Altima or the Maxima for that matter a "compact" car?

 

LOL, very good points. I heard somewhere that they didn't even test the Max. Don't know if that's true or not, just heard it from someone.

 

The Max and Altima have basicly the same weight,
Cd., and traction, but...
The max has more horsepower...
AND
Lower gearing with the 6-speed...
It absolutely HAS to be quicker. What else could psbly make the Altima quicker?

 

NOS...Supercharger....CAI.....drop in a V8.....

Its not faster!!! BUT Little brother is growing up

So is our little nephew....the sentra..Se-R V-Spec!!! 6sp....FSTB and RSB installed....NICE,

but still not a MAX!!

 

A guy over at Altimas.net ran a 13.9@101mph (2.1 60') in 5 speed 2K2 Altima with just an intake. This is FAR quicker than any other 2k2 Maxima that has run. The Altima owner was told to put up or shut up by owners in this org. As witnessed by owners in this forum, the guy ran his Altima to a 14.4@over 99mph with horrible 2.3-2.4 60 foots due to damp conditions on the track. At first, many of us thought he was lying about his slip because the date was wrong. The track was called and they verified that the slips were printed with incorrect dates on the day of his 13.9@101 (2.1 60 foot). Seeing that his 60 foots were off by .2-.3 of second and his trap speeds were still near 100mph, there's no doubt in my mind he wasn't lying about his 13.9.

The Altima is just as fast as the Maxima. As verified both on the track and on the dyno, these cars are equal. The 6 speed doesn't help one bit because the gearing is hardly anymore aggressive than the 5 speed and that the 3.5 SE has lots of torque. When you've got lots of torque, you don't need deep gearing to accelerate hard. I've been saying this for 4 months now all the while taking lots of crap from Maxima owners who are blind to the truth. Either the Altima is underrated or the Maxima is overrated. There appears to be nothing different about the internals or specifications of the motor. Both motors make the same peak torque at the same rpm. This means HP should be the same, however Nissan gives the Maxima an extra 15hp. This just isn't possible. HP is derived from torque.

With all this said, both cars will perform the same. Which box you want you motor to come in is up to you.


Dave

 

One would almost have to agree with this....The cars are just too close to call.

BTW the SE altima costs just as much as a LOADED SE Max...bout 30,000.

So nissan knows what they are doing, just pick which exterior you like better.

HOWEVER...the inside styling, leather...etc on the max is MUCH MUCH better.

Just my OP......P.S. I also like the wheels on the max.

 

Donot believe Sport Compacts times, they are slow and always slow know matter what car they drive D Love.

 

Easy answer:

On a maxima forum, the max is faster, on a altima forum, the altima is faster.

 

Duh, you think because two engines make the same torque at the same RPM it means they MUST have the same peak HP??? Whow buddy you'd better rethink that one because you couldn't be more wrong.

As for the Altima vs. Maxima engine, they have different intake and exhaust systems which WILL make for differences. Whether the diferences are accurately reflected by the factory ratings of torque and HP is a completely different matter, but there ain't no doubt that the engines are not completely the same.

That said, your analysis of the Altima qu. mile times was very good and if the facts are as stated it certainly seems possible for that Altima to have gone 13.9. I quess the question is whether a Maxima at the same track the same day driven with comparable skill would have gone faster or slower???

 

You're kidding right??? If they were actually double clutching during a timed acceleration run it would certainly explain why the runs were so slow.

 

Dave (or anyone who knows),
Do the compression ratio make much of a difference for HP ratings? My guess is not a whole lot if they're close.

The 02 Altima is 10.0:1
The 02 Maxima is 10.3:1

Is this difference in compression ratios plus having different exhausts enough to account for the 15HP difference between the 02 Max and the 02 Alty?

 

The Alty's duals are very restricive from the look of the system. The pipe has a big crimp in it and almost makes a half moon shape. That's gotta kill the power somewhat.

My question is, what's the different part that makes the compression ratios different? I don't see why Nissan would spec a different head gasket or anything else for the Altima vs. Maxima. I smell something...

 

Paul-
The intake manifolds are completely the same. They are both cast alumnium variable intake manifolds with the same part #. The exhaust systems are too close to call. The Altima uses a fake dual setup and the Maxima uses a variable capacity muffler which is pretty much just a gimmick on a NA V6. Same y-pipes, same cats, similiar resonators, same intake boxes, same air filters, etc.

Yes, HP is dervied for torque at a given RPM. On an dynojet, a simple calculation takes place. The machine measures how long it takes the motor to accelerate 2000lb drums from a two points on the tach (usually from 2000-redline rpm). From here peak torque is calculated and then HP. HP can't be measured without torque.


Dave

 

AGREED!

 

I belive they ARE the same engines. Nissan uses "throttle-by-wire" system, so it is really easy to underpower Altima. ECU just limits the throttle actuator to, say, 90% at high RPM, reducing the peak HP. There go your "missing 15 HP". At peak torque RPM the throttle is not limited, so the numbers are the same.

This opens quite an interesting mod for Altima owners...

 

"Do the compression ratio make much of a difference for HP ratings? My guess is not a whole lot if they're close.

The 02 Altima is 10.0:1
The 02 Maxima is 10.3:1 "

The Altima is also 10.3:1(same engine). HP and Torque rating are at the flywheel without intake and exhast systems. The different ratings seem to be a marketing plan since both cars put down the same ratings on a dyno. Both are fast the faster one has the better driver.

 

i think altimas have been putting down about 4 or 5 less HP on dynos, but still they definitely are very close.

 

Since the Dyno of both cars have about the same HP, could the
15 missing HP (on the Maxima dyno) be lost to the less efficient six speed tranny?

I'm no gearhead so I might be WAY off.

Simon

 

"Since the Dyno of both cars have about the same HP, could the
15 missing HP (on the Maxima dyno) be lost to the less efficient six speed tranny?

I'm no gearhead so I might be WAY off. "

Maybe, but it most likely was never there. same engine in both. Now if they could fit the 3.5 in a Sentra.....good bye Altima and Maxima.

 

Max's have been putting down more torque though.

Compare automatic tranny dynos of both and you'll see the Max does indeed have more power. Of course this would be too easy to do. Instead it's more fun to compare the manual transmissions. Especially when they're not the same, so they won't have the same losses.

*sigh*

Stereodude

 

yeah, ignore the 6 speed max and 5 speed altimas. our best comparison would be the 4 speed auto max vs the 4 speed auto altima. (both autos have 4 gears, right?)that would at least tell us how the engines differ, putting aside the possibility that the tranny could have somethign to do with power gain/loss.

 

It's very likely the Auto 02 Max and the Auto 02 3.5 Alti have the same tranny, so this would be an ideal comparo.

Stereodude

 

O.K. I've seen reports of 6.9 0-60 for auto Max(I35) and 7.3 for auto Altima.

People have given reasons why the Altima might be as fast as the Max, but how could it possibily be quicker?

 

From my quick review of an Altima it seemed to me there was more differences but I will certainly take your word for it that they're not all that different.

Sure HP is derivied from torque, BUT peak HP is not calculated from peak torque it's calculated from the torque at (in the case of an '02 Maxima) 5800 rpm which is not where the peak torque occurs. Thus, peak torque has nothing to do with peak HP and the fact that two engines may have exactly the same torque at the same rpm does not mean they MUST also have the same HP. My point, it IS possible for the Altima to have less HP than the Maxima even though they have exactly the same peak torque at exactly the same rpm, you on the other hand seem to be impling that since HP is calculated from torque the Altima and Maxima must have to same HP, this is incorrect.

 

Let's do the auto comparison. I could find only 1 dyno for a Altima V6 automatic over at Altimas.net. His car is completely stock and put out 193 hp, 223 ft-lbs SAE corrected.
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...threadid=24022

Isn't that about what auto '02 Maximas are putting out stock? Any comments?

 

Nope, it seems based on a number of dyno tests that '02 6 spd. Maximas have a little more torque and much more HP than the Altima numbers you just quoted.

 

Those are numbers for an automatic Altima, not 5-speed.

 

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....+auto+AND+dyno

2k2 Auto - 197.4 HP and 218.9 lbs of TQ
more HP than the altima but less torque

i just realized that this auto wasnt stock. it has an stillen high flow intake.

 

Come on guys, you're gonna nit-pick 2-4fwhp and 4-5fwtq? Let's get serious. These small differences in measured power can easily be attributed to dyno error between two different dynos.


Dave

 

Also not a "good" dyno run either. I don't think we've seen a good 02 Auto dyno, nor what a HLSD 02 does on a Dyno either.

Stereodude

 

So how much HP do you figure the HLSD is gunna cost? Certainly it shouldn't make a 6 spd. trans less efficient than an auto.

 

Hard to say. SCC got really high HP #'s for a HLSD Max, but then it was a dog in the 1/4 and 0-60, so who really knows if they even tested it. I don't think the HLSD tranny will have any more losses than the normal open diff. In fact it may be more efficient.

Stereodude

 

The Altima is going to be spear heading Nissan's revival here in the U.S. so it does make sense that they widen the Altima's appeal to cover the $16000 to $30000 price range. Giving the Altima the 3.5 VQ option makes sense because it is now in a much better position to take market share from the Accord and the Camry (as long the Maxima is made more upscale--- which apparently will happen
relatively soon). Nissan did a good job appealing to the masses and to the driving enthusiasts alike (not necessarily an easy thing to do). Between the Altima and the Maxima, Nissan has something for everyone (from the a soccer mom's kid & grocery car to an entry level luxury sports sedan). I think that only car that will be getting a significantly different 3.5 VQ would be the upcoming 350Z. Isn't the 350Z's version of the 3.5 VQ going to be putting out around 280HP or so? Just my 0.02 worth!

 

"In fact", naaa no facts could support such an idea. How could having to turn an extra set of gears never mind the extra weight involved make it MORE efficient, duh - NOT! Keep on dreaming.

 

I think you are in error. The trannies are not all that similar (according to Nissan). There is a lot more difference between the two than just swapping out the differential inside. People who don't have the HLSD have looked into replacing the differential in the tranny and apparently it can't be done because of significant differences in the tranny.

I'm not saying it is more efficient, I'm just saying that it may be possible. There has to be some explaination as to why SCC measured so much more HP on a HLSD Max.

Stereodude

 

im think im going to dyno my car sometime soon if i can find a dynojet int he area.

 

Are the ECU in a Altima and Maxima the same?
IF there not the same ECU, that could explain the additional hp at the crank, even though dyno numbers seem to be in favor of both engines having same outputs.