I did the inevitable! The VE Auto is no longer NA! (Pics inside)
 

I decided it was time to upgrade the NWP Engineering Project Car! It's time to start busting 1/4 mile times better than high 13s.

I got a good price on a Dynotune Wet Nitrous Kit from a fellow member on the org. I spent two full days installing it. I took my sweet old time and made sure everything was perfect. It's scary spraying for the first time!

I am only spraying a 35 shot right now, but I will be upgrading to a 75 shot at the end of Sept when I get my car on the dyno to properly tune the fuel and bump up the timing as much as it can go on race fuel. It sucks driving on stock base timing again! Bumping the base timing on the VE should be the first thing anybody does! Good for atleast 2 or 3 tenths in the 1/4! Really improves partial throttle response!

I had some little problems with the spark blowing out with the stock gap, but I fixed that problem by setting the gap at .035". It would only misfire in 3rd gear on the highway. It wouldn't misfire in 1st or 2nd gear.

It's nice spinning the tires from a roll in 1st gear! I could never do that before!

And since I know that all threads like this are worthless without pictures... here ya go! Enjoy!

Empty bottle with heater:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...w%20Heater.JPG

Nozzle fitting on the bottom side of the midpipe to help hide it from inexperienced eyes:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...0installed.JPG

Solenoids down low in the engine next to the battery tray:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...0Installed.JPG

Added an extra T fitting on top of my fuel pressure gauge T fitting along with adding a z32 fuel filter:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...%20fitting.JPG

Freshly bent blow down tube to use an existing hole in my floor:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...0Installed.JPG

Nitrous hose attached:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...ed%20Final.JPG

My torque converter lockup switch with my recently added safety cover (I kept accidentally bumping it):
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...p%20Switch.JPG

And my most beautiful nitrous switch on the left side with my bottle heater on the right:
http://www.nwpengineering.com/forum/...20Switches.JPG

what are the two fuel taps for?

I just edited my original post to explain that picture. One T fitting is for the fuel pressure gauge I have and the other is fuel for the wet shot of nitrous. I could have used a 4 way cross fitting, but it was cheaper and easier to get two T fittings and a nipple to attach the two.

nice we have another convert, I see 12's in your future

when are you planning to hit the track with the 35shot or will you wait for the 75shot and dyno tune

It's a slight possibility that I will hit the track with the 35 shot. But I doubt it since I am VERY tempted to go with the 50 shot tomorrow! lol I knew nitrous was crack before going into it!

I may try to hit the track with the 35 shot, then quickly bump it up to a 50 shot to see how hard it is to launch with that much power. If I don't make it to the track in Sept, then I will wait until I have the 75 shot dyno tuned at the end of Sept. Expect to see some nice times this winter if I don't blow up my car first! :)

Ibscreaminlikealilgirlatnxinaaronscar

:laugh:

sept 29th ill see it in person!

Welcome to the VE nitrous Club my friend!

I launch at idle with my window switch set at 2100rpm and 75shot right out the hole on street tires and cut 2.0 60fts all day long

when I go back I am going to try to launch at 1500-1800rpms with the nitrous set to cut on at 2400rpm and see if I can get a 1.8-1.9 60ft

good luck try the 35shot traction should not be a problem at all and bring the 50 jets with you

There's an easy way to raise your spark voltage - my voltage-booster thingie:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1408.jpg

It's an automotive laptop power supply with switch-selectable outputs. I use 16 volts to the coils. You need to find the one wire that feeds battery voltage to the coils, open it up, feed the battery to the "boostar" and connect the output to the coil connection. Hey, presto, no more sparks blowing out! About $50.

I have solved my spark problem by changing the gap. But, that doesn't mean it won't blow out again with a larger shot. So I may have to raise the voltage in the future. Thanks.

Edit: And also, it REALLY sucks driving the car with stock timing! The thing is so dang slow! The VE at stock timing feels slower than a Civic. I'll just make two programs, one with advanced timing NA and then I can flip a switch to change to a nitrous program.

That's why I went looking for a solution - the higher the shot, the smaller the gap. At 150-shot, even a .030 gap was causing problems on the top end. With the boosta, I use .035, but I know I can gap them wider - just no need.

You'd think that the FI guys with narrow spark gaps would pick up on this....
.

When I tune my ECU, I can bump up the stock coil packs. But old coil packs can only do but just so much.

When I had my misfire, it would only do it in 3rd gear around 4500rpm. And the car would lose 100% of power. It scares the piss out of you and you instantly back out of it. Is that what all misfires feel like? I read that sometimes, the car will simply stumble instead of losing 100% of power. What does a spark blowout feel like?

Dynotune based all their numbers off a 950psi bottle pressure and 43psi FP. I had to lower my FP from 43 to about 40psi just so I can run above 10:1 AFR. Then I started running my bottle at 1050 in order to get the AFR to around 11:1. I've sprayed once at 1150psi and the AFR was around 11.7:1, which is not too bad.

What do you think? Is it ok to adjust your FP and/or bottle pressure to alter your AFR? I don't think it's probably a good idea to lower the FP too much. So I may bump that back up to stock (36 at idle and around 43 at WOT). But then I will need to either change my fuel jet or simply keep running 1150psi bottle pressure. If 1150 is too high, then I will just have to bump up to a 50 shot and keep the same 16 fuel jet I have in there instead of putting in the 18 that dynotune recommends for the 50 shot. :D

Let me know what you think.

I based my jetting on the NX jet combinations - I use 1100-1150 psi nitrous and 43 psi fuel pressure. I use a NX heater setup to keep nitrous there. A/F is about 12 at those settings. NX has those jet combinations on their web site, under Imports. Power will drop off if the A/F gets below 11:1. Don't go lean - something will break. I keep my nitrous and fuel pressures constant, and you can tune the A/F with the jets - I usually ran my 2nd stage one step leaner on the fuel jet to keep the A/f 12:1...

Misfires under load can be exciting - when one cylinder drops out, it feels like you lost the motor. Keep new, colder copper plugs in your motor. Be aware you may have experienced preignition - a dangerous condition, often fatal, and you feel it.

You can have borderline misfires at higher RPMs and all you notice is a drop in power - nothing feels weird. Gap 'em closer or use the $50 voltage booster - it won't hurt your coils. I've been running the same set of OEM coils at 16 volts since last spring, and I drove app. 500 miles to Denver and Dallas TX that year. No problems - it's still in there. Putting 16 volts on the coils gives a bunch more spark at the plug. It's cheap, it's easy, it works - why don't you want to do it? No mods required at the ECU. The 16 volts builds up a stronger magnetic field in each coil, so more spark when it's fired by the ECU.

And while you're at it, cut the ground strap down on your plugs and side-gap them. This way, they don't become a glowplug under heavy nitrous...
.

Right now, I'm just running a 35 shot. I might change to a 50 shot, raise my fuel pressure back to 43psi, put in my colder plugs while keeping the same 16 fuel jet I have in there. That should lean things out a little bit.

Also, when I gapped my iridiums from .045 to .035, they were all rich and showed no signs of any lean conditions or preignition. No green either. So far, all my nitrous 35 shot runs have had an AFR in the 10s or very low 11s, depending on the bottle pressure.

Thanks for your help. I have to buy more jets to widen my options.

One step at a time...... you know the routine.....

You shouldn't see the "green glaze of death" below 100-shot. but reading nitrous plugs is different. When you raise the shot level, the insulator should become whiter just after a pass. Check them as soon as you can after spraying. They'll brown-up after a few miles of driving, you know.

Yeah. I did 2 sprays back to back and instantly pulled into my driveway and had the plugs pulled within a few minutes. They had a powdery white coat on the insulator, probably a light brownish white.

Why do you feel cutting the ground strap and side gapping is needed on a 35 or 50 shot?

Because you're going to go beyond 50-shot once you get tuning squared away - and you feel the kick-in-the-back rush of 100+shot nitrous. Might as well learn how to do it right.

Go on -admit it -you want the low-13s and high-12s. Learn how to manage higher shots, sprayed all the way down the 1/4 mile, and you'll be on the way there.

There's lots of guys saying they spray high shots, but most are street racers. I think lots fewer spray all the way. At least the timeslips forum doesn't show many nitrous users under 13.5sec ETs. That's when things get really hot in the ol' combustion chamber.

Show me the slip. :chuckle:

I won't estimate any 1/4 mile times right now b/c I have no idea what to expect. I know with my weight reduction and spraying the entire 1/4 mile, I will be able to shave a lot off my ETs. I'll let the slips speak for themselves. If I don't provide any slips, that means I blew something up! :)

But yeah, you're right. I will be going with a 75 shot rather quickly. I'm tempted to do it tomorrow. :)

Another question, I did a little more reading side gapping spark plugs and they look different than yours. Here is the best link I could find about side gapping plugs:

http://performanceunlimited.com/docu...degapping.html

They simply removed some of the ground strap. But they didn't straighten it like yours. I imagine you chose to straighten your straps b/c there would be less material over the hot zone, resulting and less chances of the glow plug effect. Is that right?

I've also read that side gapping alone can help gas mileage and improve performance all motor. But it reduces the life of the plug, which I can care less about.

Do you have any good reading articles about side gapping?

And I'm shooting for much more than high 12s. You'll see a dual stage in my future most likely. :D

I noticed your referenced article didn't mention nitrous. Lots of nitrous makes lots of heat - and the OEM ground strap starts to heat up - hot enough, and the ground strap melts any material stuck to it and produces a layer of "the green glaze of death", just like a pottery kiln.

Much hotter and you start to get preignition, because the new glow plug starts to fire the mixture too early. Just a little more heat, and you can turn off all your coils 'cause you're running a model-airplane glow plug engine now. Won't last very long, either.

My side-gapping photos show that I minimized the amount of metal sticking out into the combustion chamber. That's the way to survive lots of nitrous. Actually, the shorter, the better.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1169.jpg

Articles? A few:

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/t...park-plugs.htm

http://www.nitrouskits.co.uk/Technic...peformance.htm

http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/SparkPlugData.htm

But just Google for "nitrous ground spark plug" or variations of that - there is a TON of information about this plug mod for spray.

Try it. Can't hurt, might help.

Congratulations Aaron! Spraying nitrous is definitely alot of fun.

I'm currently spraying a 75 shot on my VE-5. I'm going to bump it up to a 150 shot once I have everything for it (safety wise).

sweeeeeeeet aaron, gonna have to be an NC meet/trip to the Rock soooon :spin:

grant

Gotcha! Thanks. I thought it was b/c of the amount of metal in the CC. Thanks for the links.

Nice! Show me the timeslips. :D

For safety, get a wideband if you haven't already done so. Then you can get an AFR safety shut off switch as well as a FP safety switch. I plan on getting the Dynotune AFR switch when I go with the 75 shot.

Lets go to Fayetteville instead. I think it's closer to you and the track prep seems much better. I am probably planning a trip to Kinston in either Sept or Oct. I'll post about it when I'm ready to go. Hopefully a few people will make the short trip from Raleigh.

One more link of interest - from the ORG!

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=449378

.

Thanks. Here's a good article I found a while ago that some onlookers might appreciate:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...8mmff_nitrous/

That's a good article - and it sounds very familiar to me.... Nuttin' about cutting ground straps back, though.

Raise your coil voltage, sidegap your colder copper-cored plugs, use race gas, get bigger slicks, have fun!

:hide:

all this talk about spray, can not wait till the rest of my parts come in so I can install my mevi

it's time for me to pass streetz on the timeslip database

I just installed a 50 shot today while keeping the same 16 fuel jet meant for the 35 shot. After finding out I'm still rich at low 11s. I backed the fuel pressure down some more and I'm still in the 11s. I might just have to bump up to a 75 shot with same fuel jet to solve my issue. :D

The guy at dynotune said I could lower the fuel pressure down to around 30 psi before any problems start to occur. Right now, it's about 41psi. I will first lower it a tad.

But the 50 shot feels a little bit better than the 35 shot. It feels very inconsistant. I bet I need a purge. I have to spray about 2 or 3 good runs in a row before I can get a good solid feeling pull.

Congrats on your 50shot. Only if you had a tuning device you would easily be able to lean it out a little bit. I guess you have to wait for your ecu to be tuned.

I just dont understand why is it to rich?, what is your a/f all motor at WOT? If dynotune did their job properly the a/f should be very close to n/a. When I dynoed a 50shot, the a/f got slightly richer i believe, but that was because i didnt have a bottle warmer. I still gainged exactly 50whp.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3...49014c53f9.htm

My AFR is about 11:1 NA. When I spray, it's about the same now with the small fuel jet and the 50 shot. I still need to lower my FP some more.

I sprayed a bunch of times with the 50 shot today and tonight. I even sprayed on a launch. HAHAHA! That was a joke! Nice smokey 1st gear burnout. If I launch NA and wait until 10mph, I am able to spray the 50 shot without spinning the tires too much.

Also, I'm having a problem with my Dynotune bottle heater. It definitely heats the bottle and gets it's very hot to the touch, but my pressure takes about 30 minutes to get from 950 to 1050! Seriously, I have timed it on several occasions. I think 30 minutes is a lot just to get it from 950 to 1050. Also, the bottle itself is very hot to the touch. You can lay your hand on it, but if it was any hotter, it would cause a little pain.

My gauge obviously works since it when I sprayed at 950psi, my AFR was very very rich. And the outside temp of the bottle was VERY hot where you don't really want to touch it. How effective are the blankets? I didn't think I needed a blanket in 90 degree heat. But I'm learning a lot.

Also, after doing several back to back nitrous runs in 2nd gear, it still seems to surge. The power is very inconsistant. I did mount my bottle at a 45 degree angle instead of parallel with the car. But if the bottle is full, it shouldn't surge. So something else must be wrong or maybe that's how nitrous is suppose to be.

Well, that's all I got. I'm tempted to throw on the 75 shot soon. Somebody stop me!

You have several things that feel wrong. The bottle warmer shouldn't take that long. The bottle should feel like your forehead when you have a fever, at 1050-1100 psi. Maybe you have a defective pressure switch??

There shouldn't be surges when spraying. What jets are you using for 35, 50, and 75-shot? NX recommends a 31-18 (nitrous-fuel) for 35-shot, a 35-20 for 50-shot, and 41-24 for 75 shot, with 1050 psi and 43 psi.. Anything else says you have a problem. Maybe you should get a NX nozzle and jets, and ditch the Dynotune stuff. NX nozzles and jets are common on eBay.

To quote NX, "In stock engine applications and street usage the spark plugs should be at least 2 steps colder than stock. Do not use platinum tip, extended tip or any plug with multiple ground straps or spilt ground straps. When in doubt about heat range always go one step colder. Never use an extended tip plug in a racing engine."

Surging while spraying is highly abnormal - and this should be fixed ASAP. Get a purge solenoid and connect to the nitrous solenoid - your nitrous solenoid does have a purge port, right? Do this. Nitrous should pull very hard and very consistently when spraying. Anything else is dangerous, and wrong.

Fix this stuff first, before trying a 75-shot. Free advice, but please listen.

:smash:

No, there isn't a purge port. The nitrous solenoid only has an IN and a OUT. I will need to get a purge kit. They are very cheap. All it is, is another nitrous solenoid with some tubing.

I am using a 50 shot right now with the 16 fuel fitting. The 50 shot on Dynotune's kit is suppose to be 34/18. But I am using 34/16 to lean things out a bit.

Also, have you seen the dyno testing that was done to compare all the different nozzles? I think it was on the LS1 forums. Dynotune's nozzle did just a little bit better than NX shark nozzle. But I still think the NX nozzle is better since it's been proven race worthy for a LONG time.

I bet my bottle is getting low. I made a lot of runs today. Yesterday, I weighed it to have about 8 lbs left. But I could have possibly ran that empty.

I appreciate your help.

I would really try to get your a/f into 13 range NA. Find out why you are so rich NA. BTW 75 shot is the best. Wish I will had my juice installed.

The VE has always been known to have a rich tune. Most stock VEs are in the low 12s or high 11s for AFR. Mine is just a little bit richer than that for some reason. I have done a LOT of work on the motor to make it produce more HP. So I don't know.

Just keep dropping that fuel pressure till you hit 13s. BTW what is your a/f ratio at idle at 43psi and current 41psi?

At idle, it's 14.7:1 regardless of the FP. Adjusting the fuel pressure only effects open loop control when the stock narrowband o2 sensor isn't changing anything. But if I lower the idle FP from stock (36psi) to about 30psi, I was able to change my AFR from 11:1 to about 12.5:1, which is much better NA. But for nitrous, I put my FP back to 43 psi at WOT as recommended, then I tuned from there. It turns out that since I have such rich conditions to begin with, I am still getting rich conditions with the nitrous. So I am forced to lower FP again and change jets.

I will be able to get the right AFR by lowering the FP a little bit more. I just needed to change to a smaller fuel jet first since Dynotune errs on the rich side of things to be safe.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it.....:hahano:

NX nitrous solenoids have an extra port to purge through, using another solenoid and purge line. Gets all the gas out of the system.

It's good that you have the setup to monitor A/F so closely - but if you move the fuel pressure around, you'll have to customize the jets for each spray level....

I'm sure Dynotune has good stuff - heck, they have NX and NOS to copy from - which jets are they compatible with??? NX or NOS ?

Yup, the 75-shot level is where things get really exciting - and you will need tires. Ain't this fun? Another convert to the joys of spray. Heh.

:nx:

The purge kit that Dynotune offers has an AN adapter and another solenoid. I guess the NX nitrous solenoid doesn't need that adapter fitting since it already has a spare port. Pretty cool.

It's easy to adjust the FP. I can do it by hand under the hood and see instant results on my FP gauge at idle. If I drastically lower the FP, I will be able to use the recommended jets, but if the mixture is way off, Dan at dynotune said it's best to change the jets first so the FP doesn't get too low.

Dynotune copied NOS pretty closely. The fogger nozzle and jets are the same as NOS.

Also, my coil packs are dying. They have been misfiring ocassionally for the past year (about 1 out of 1000 runs would misfire NA). When I closed the gap on my plugs, it made it much easier to spark with the nitrous. But, I had a misfire with the 50 shot yesterday. I will be getting new coil packs soon, then I'll probably boost the voltage.

I can't live without seeing the AFR, even NA. It's the best $330 I've ever spent. I will also be getting the AFR safety switch which looks like a nice device to have when I go above 75 shot. It works well with a narrowband setup too in case you are interested.

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store...p?idproduct=67

With the 50 shot, I am able to hold traction in the top of 1st gear. I thought I wouldn't be able to. Maybe a 75 shot will be a different story. :)

I just weighed my bottle... 2.4 lbs left. Considering the way I mount the bottle, I can see why I felt some power surges. In just one 2nd gear pull, the power would come on REALLY strong, then subside a little about 3 times within the same 2nd gear pull.

Also, I'm sure that a low bottle will be harder to heat up to the correct pressure. When it was full, as grey said, I noticed it shouldn't be any hotter than a feverish forehead, which is about 100 degrees. The bottle at 85 degrees and full should have a pressure of 950psi. I found that to be very true when I first had my bottle filled. But when the bottle is getting empty, it's no longer true.

I am happy that I am able to go until 2.5 lbs until my nitrous starts going downhill. For those that mounted the bottle the correct way, how low are you able to go before you feel the nitrous going downhill?

I can't believe I emptied the bottle in only 3 days! I need the "two big bottles" that F&F talked about. I should watch that movie again and get some more nitrous pointers. :woot2: That reminds me, I gotta reinforce the welds on my manifold and tighten my floor pan wing nuts before I get my nitrous filled again.

Are you running a 10lb bottle? Those don't last long, you know. That's good for two full-power passes for my car.

My three 15lb bottles - I have one 10lb for street playtime and three 15lb bottles for business ! The 15lb is good for 4 full pulls.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn1829.jpg
.
The 10lb bottle w/heater:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn1629.jpg

The -6AN pipe :

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn1628.jpg
.;)