exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

Tires are running on low..
Ive tried these, any recommendations for a street/track tire to try?

I tried the michelin pillot sp2 tires

Great Tire, crisp turn-in and great steering response under wet conditions. Tire was very stiff held up its great characteristics until the end of its life.

I tried the potenza RE 11

Predictable and refined. I drove as hard as i could because the limit of the tire was so high. I enjoyed winding roads every chance i got, it was consistently performing under the conditions i gave them. But once it got to the end of its life, it didnt have the toughness to continue. At about tire-life < 40%, i didnt feel confident at higher speeds.


NOW its time for a new brand, open to suggestions... Any Insight IS APPRECIATED.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Well you've already discovered the trade off between longevity and grip. The RE11 is considered to be among the best of the "almost R compound" tires. Others in that category are the Ecsta XS (in the dry ONLY, they are NOT good in the wet), the Dunlop Star Spec (these tires are generally regarded to be the best wet traction tire in the class, but are a little less grippy in the dry than the XS and RE11).

Are you looking for AutoX grip, or road course lapping grip, because there is a difference. Some tires while great at 30-60 second autoX type times start to get greasy after a few laps on a road course because the tire temperatures get MUCH higher, so you can't always equate good performance on a 35 second course with good performance on a road course. The Azenis RT-615 is a tire which falls in to this category, and I've heard through the grapevine that the Ecsta XS does that too (as opposed to it's predecessor the MX, which got grippier as it got hotter).

Here's a good little review of tires that compete with the RE11 that you may have already seen, but if not:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...irePageLocQty=


And here's the results of the GRM tire test, same tires test but with a few more added in.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...a/10151/page1/

I have the Dunlop Star Spec (called the Direzza Z1 in some tests). I like them, though I'll probably either go with a tire that has more dry grip at the expense of wet grip, or more likely, get a real R compound before I go out to the road course again. I lap in advanced classes where 80% of the cars are on R compounds, and as good as the star specs are, they can't do as well as an R compound.

2slow

iTrader: (6)

What happened to the RE-11s at ~40% remaining tread?

To simplify the tires referenced above (good post), here is a list with some additional options:

Kuhmo XS (poor in the wet)
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec (value leader)
Bridgestone RE-11 ($$)
Yokohama Advan AD-08 ($$)
Toyo R1R (may have issues with heavier vehicles)
Hankook RS3 (limited available sizes)
Falken Azenis RT-615k (not available yet)

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

AWESOME HELP AND ADVICE...

Ive been using the tips since the day they were posted. It should help me choose well. I really wanted the Bridgestone potenza RE01R tires, but price is high for the treadwear rating.

all of the info really opened up my eyes to choices, since im gonna be tracking soon with a new brake setup, im gonna need tons of grip but longevity too since its my daily...


*Tires started slipping alot. even from bumpsteer, damp roads, and the limit of the tires grip dropped unpredictably from what it was ( if your driving hard), otherwise great for daily street use.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

Can the Falken Ziex ZE-912 hold out at buttonwillow raceway? or would azenis be worth it for the $ ?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

The RE-11 that you had blows any Falken offering out of the water in every single measure of performance. RE-11 is probably the single best tire out there from all the research I've done (which is extensive), both wet and dry, as far as performance is concerned (including the RE-01R, which isn't made anymore).

ZE-912 is a mid level all season tire... how in the world could you consider that when you've had what most of the motorsport world considers the best tire on the market lol... Azenis RT-615 is better but is not a road course tire, it gets greasy when hot in the dry, and has zero wet traction. It's good for dry short runs (AutoX) but is still bested even in that by the RE11. If you really want Azenis, discounttiredirect has a helluva deal going on them and an $80 rebate... I wouldn't go with them though, they are a step down from what you've already had.

i don't understand your complaint about the RE11s (I understand what you're saying, but I've never heard what you're saying from anyone else). how old were the tires as far as time is concerned. is it possible they became dry rotted or stiff because of improper storage during winter or something? I see that you're in CA so I doubt that's it, but your complaint about them doesn't seem to be echoed by any of their other users that I've seen.

If you're not happy with the RE-11, your only higher performance option is an R compound. There are some out there that have pretty good treadwear for R comps and last quite a while.

You might consider getting your next tires shaved if you're doing primarily dry weather racing also.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

After doing some more research I have found some other people experiencing what you experienced with the RE-11. It seems that they do indeed start to trail off performance as they get more worn. Someone who posted about this specific issue also said that the Dunlop Star Spec does not have this trail-off in traction. Initially they aren't quite as grippy as the RE11 (I can verify this, I've driven both) but they stay consistent whereas the RE11 apparently does not once it really starts to get worn down. RE01R seems to do the same thing as the RE11.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

haha that's exactly what i ended up doing...

how can i tell if the tire gets greasy during hot temps... the treadwear rating?

Im looking at the hankook ventus v12 evo, or the dublop direzza dz101, ... simply put, i ended up taking shaved front tires to my first track day, but the rears weren't.

This next time around i wanted to see how much more performance I could get from upgrading tires..

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

No you just have to go by what others have experienced. I tend to search forums on which a lot of racers reside, SCCA forums, grassroots motorsports forums, bimmerforums, and just googling different tire name combos to see how people feel about them comparing first hand.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

the problem is, a lot of the data out there relates to autoX which is not always a good correlation to track lapping. autoX doesn't get nearly the amount of heat into a tire that lapping does, so the best autoX performer is not always the best lapping performer once you get beyond the 1st or 2nd lap. for that bit of data, I just read, read, read.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

and even then you have to consider car weight. even a direct comparison between the tires we're discussing here on a Miata doesn't apply directly to us, since our cars are so much heavier and will have a tendency to overheat tires more, and also FWD meaning the front tires are doing both the accelerating and turning, will heat the fronts up a lot more than the back.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

Do you road race your max?

Whats your favorite brand? I had a friend tell me when he ran Potenza s RE 01R on his Z, they gripped well and actually lasted for a while for daily driving; a year and a half, with 5 track days in between !!?? ( is that possible? )

We weigh less than a Z, so maybe i might have the same results?? maybe...
What do you think about the hankook ventus V12 Evo 's, Track worthy?

2slow

iTrader: (6)

For the tires you are looking at treadwear rating will be low, and should be expected where higher treadwear rating tires will respond negatively to track use. They will overheat, get greasy and/or chunk. If you want tons of grip, you must sacrifice tire life, there is no way around it.

Your experiences near end of life RE-01Rs are unusual; except for your observation that low tread depth tires have little wet traction.

If you were using shaved RE-11s on the front with full tread depths rears you likely induced some poor characteristics. Also, while tires grip usually trails off with use (where wet traction is primarily a function of tread depth), your complaint of inconsistent handling is very unusual (unless it relates to a shaved/unshaved tire mix). If you are overheating the tires you either need a tire which can handle more heat (r-comp) or adjust your driving (poor driving can put excessive heat into tires).

You cannot tell track heat handling ability from any common tire specification.

In your search for a multipurpose tire you are heading in the wrong direction with the V12 and DZ101. You should focus on the following list as they will handle track heat and abuse better than a mid-level summer tire.

Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec
Bridgestone RE-11
Yokohama Advan AD-08
Toyo R1R (wildcard for heavy cars, may chunk)
Hankook RS3 (wildcard from limited data)

Aside from wear, the common thought is the RE-11 is better than the RE-01R in every aspect. The RE-01R was generally good for 200+ autocross runs which with some daily driving, so your friends experience is likely true.

Also not that while your car may weigh less than a Z, the weight distribution and drive arrangement is different where the Maxima will put more heat into the front tires (rotating tires is important).

EDIT: I don't think you will fnid anyone that road races a Maxima. They may do track days or time trial type events, but the Maxima isn't a great wheel to wheel vehicle.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I lap my max non-competitively at HPDE/lapping days (meaning no official timing, but I'm going as hard as I can out there while staying within the rules of the event and within reasonable bounds of safety).

I agree with everything 2slow said. The tires like the V12, and even Azenis RT615, etc are inferior in terms of performance, and if you track them, they will likely end up being inferior in terms of durability too (even though they would likely last longer with strictly street driving), because they can't handle the heat imparted by lapping, and will just start to disintegrate out on the track. The only street tires I could personally recommend looking at for lapping are the ones myself and the others have already listed. Most everything else is inferior when it comes to on track performance (I say most because there may be a tire out there that is good on the track that we haven't listed, but I can't think of one.)

z32drifter

Well I guess I'll add my bit of info as well. Between myself and my track junkie friends, we have burned up a lot of tires. The Star spec and the XS are the top bang for the buck tires we have found. We have found the XS to be more consistent for hot lapping than the Start spec. The Star Spec tends to post faster single laps than the the XS, but falls off more during longer runs. Oddly one of my friends runs the Evo 12s on his Magnum SRT8 and really likes them on the street. They are a good bang for the buck performance street tire, good both in the rain and dry. He has beat the crap out of them both street and track, they will overheat and go off when pushed on the track.

2slow

iTrader: (6)

Z32drifter, that is good first hand information. Do you have any wet weather comparisons?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Hmm that's interesting. I was talking to a guy who has run the XS on road course for lapping and he said that the XS got a little greasy after a few laps kind of like Azenis do. He hasn't run Star Specs so there was no comparison he could make with those, but he has run MXs which really like heat, and he was disappointed that the XS started to go away with heat unlike the MX which likes heat.

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

I also road course my car a bit and have only used the Nitto NT-01 R-comps on dry and damp track days. The amount of heat and stress experienced by the front tires on a FWD track driven car is immense. I don't have much experience with street tires on the track but they are no comparison to a good R compound tire, we are talking several seconds difference per lap. If you are concerned with value I've done 10 track days and over 500 miles of street driving on my NT-01s and they are good for another 5 track days at least! I cycle them front to back for each track day and that makes for nice even wear.

The advice I give is have a set of R compounds for a dry track and a set of summer/wet track tires that you drive to the track with. The Maxima has plenty of room for a set of track tires, tools, and a floor jack. I currently have all season tires but I am looking at the RE-11 for a summer/wet track tire.

Also if you step up to an R-compound for the track beware of the extra stress placed on the front wheel studs and hubs. I stretched the threads on my NISMO wheel studs and the NT-01s were stuck on there along with the track pads until I got home roughly 300 miles later. Found out the hard way that Nissan wheel studs are not so good, even the overpriced NISMO ones. This is why I run ARP wheel studs on the car, I don't want to have the lug nuts get stuck on the studs again.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

How does R compound tires affect the wheel studs? I was going to do a 2piece brake upgrade with larger calipers too... is that gonna load up the studs too much?

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

There is alot more lateral forces with R-compounds. The tires grip so much better, the hub and wheel studs take a bit more stress. I've found some people who auto-x and track the Maximas having trouble removing the front wheel lugs at the end of the day. If you have an impact gun it is possible to remove them but with a breaker bar you can easily snap the wheel stud off. Over the course of the '09 season I noticed it was getting harder and harder to remove my front wheels. Eventially the NISMO studs just were no longer threading with the wheel lugs. I snapped one lug and decided to leave the others on and drive home with the R-compounds.

http://forums.maxima.org/autocrossin...orts-park.html

I posted the story in that thread.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

That's interesting about the studs, I've never run R comps on my maxima but am planning to this year. Something I'll need to be aware of.

I did notice back when I was going to the drag strip almost every week in 02, 03, 04, that OEM wheelstuds tended to get chewed up and fail, just from the constant R&R of wheels (streets to slicks) and that the NISMO studs fared MUCH MUCH better, much higher quality steel. Interesting that even those are prone to failure from R comp G forces.

Can you compare and contrast the NT01s to any other R comps? They are one that I don't know much about.

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

From SPL's website -

As cornering and braking grip increases, greater stresses are placed on the wheel studs. For serious track use, Nissan OEM or Nismo wheel studs are simply not strong enough:



350Z running on 285 wide Hoosier R6s sheared off all 5 wheel studs. Nissan studs torqued precisely to 80ft-lbs with electronic torque wrench.

They sell Mitsu EVO wheel studs which is ARP part # 100-7717 but the thread pattern is M12 x 1.5. ARP also makes an application for Subie STIs which is the same as the EVO but the thread pattern is M12 x 1.25, that is ARP part # 100-7716. Both will work on 14.3 mm knarl Nissan hubs. You will also need open ended wheel lugs, I use a set from Gorilla. Again it's an overkill insurance policy for myself as I do alot of track runs on R-compounds. When I saw the threads starting to stretch and then the lugs getting stuck I put the ARPs on the front. Another nice advantage with the 3" ARP wheel studs; it's much easier to mount a tire with the longer studs.

Also when you torque your wheels do it a few minutes before your run when the wheels are at their coolest temps. Use a breaker bar to slightly loosen the lug and then use a torque wrench to torque to spec. I see alot of guys who come off the track and torque heated wheels without loosening them first. The nut just keeps getting tighter which will increase the chances of it getting stuck on there. That is how I ruined the wheel studs I had on the car before the NISMOs.

NT-01s are a great HPDE tire with a similar nature to a street tire in that they give you a good audible warning when you are near the limits of traction. They don't seem to get greasy either, though I'm not 100% sure. After a couple of hard laps the steering goes soft and while it holds corners just fine the steering feels terrible, more so than it already is for a FWD car. Still not sure if it is the tires or something with the suspension. I've got a couple of things to try this year and will report back.

The NT-01 downsides are they do not have even symmetery so you can only rotate front to back, they can't be turned inside out either. The Toyo R888 have a very similar tire compound but with a symmetrical tread, so they are a good alternative IMO. However they are both rated at 100 which is not so sticky for an R-compound but they are forgiving which is good for someone's first set of R-compounds.

One of my track buddies offered me a set of 275/40/17 Hoosier race slicks for almost nothing. (He has got $$$ along with 2 Vipers and 8 other cars) These ones are not even DOT approved and for race only. I will have to make some fender flares and stuff 10"~11" rims on this car... Right...

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

Ended up choosing the Hankook ventu s Evo V12 with Nismo wheel studs just in case. with all the braking mods and etc...

They are gripping surprisingly strong, ill post the quality and characteristics after the track day.

THANKS FOR THE INFO.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

getting the car's suspension tune down as accurate as possible, UPDATE: The tires are doing well, i thought i might suffer from grip because the hankook v12 evos are not in the same range as the hankook RS-3, or the star spec dunlops, but the 280 AA/A tread is suprisingly gripping, WeLL. The coilover suspension i have allows for higher cornering speeds, so the tires that have been used show their characteristics. The tires gripped well when pushed hard around the corners.

In case of the next set of tires, anybody have any reviews about the Nitto 555R's?

I ll post reviews of these tires on the track around April 2nd.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

The Nitto NT555R is a drag radial.

Do you mean the Nitto NT555 (which is a street tire) or the Nitto NT555RII which is a road race tire? I've had both first and second tire (drag radial and street tire). The 555RII isn't made in a size which will fit on my wheels (275-45-17 is the smallest and that's too big for my wheels).

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

I didnt know there was a third version of the NT555, i saw the R's on a Z, and thought they might be fun to try, but now i remember that it did look like a drag radial...

I researched the NT555 street tire and theyre good, but not as good a track tire as i wanted, how are the road race versions? did you daily them? or did you rotate with another set for daily driving?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I didn't use the road race version it doesn't come in a size that will easily fit on a maxima. I used the street tire and drag radial.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

update:

so 5months later, the hankooks V12 evos have lost all its points. My brakes have stronger grip than the tire, so im able to slide at break points, on the street!! ON the Track, i DEF. slide at brake points. The traction left on these tires doesnt give the same confidence that the Dunlop Star Specs do for nearly the same price.

These tires were great new, but after some hard driving and 1 track day, theyve lost their appeal (with aggressive driving in mind). As a daily tire, theyre great tires.

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

Funny I was viewing this thread the other night and you posted back with some results.

I didn't think the V12 evos would hold up to much track abuse. The RS3s would of been a better choice but they only come in two decent sizes that fit on a 4th gen Maxima properly, 225/45/17 & 255/40/17.

Reason I'm posting is that I got a set of Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08s in 235/45/17 as my summer/wet track tire. They say they are a little more grippy than the RE-11s but a bit more noisy. We will see how they perform on the street and I might run them on the dry track to compare the NT-01s. At this point I am willing to bet they have about the same amount of stick as the NT-01s, as the Nittos are a couple years old now and heat cycle hardened.

exsjulio

iTrader: (4)

New track day in January forced me to purchase new tires.

I picked up some Nitto NT05s. (they have a 200 tread rating)

Drove them on the track, and they had completely surprised me and anyone who rode along. The grip was amazing. Tires in complete grip with the ground at all turns under braking and acceleration gave an unseen level of driving confidence to me. I was late braking into all turns and flooring on the power at the corners with complete command of the car. These Nittos showed a high plateau of grip that showed how much more speed they could handle. At 300 treadwear the tires seems to skid a bit to find the line/apex where the 200 treadwear tires can follow it with no problem. These tires were so gummy and reactive to temperature that they almost drove like slicks or R compound tires, WHILE STILL BEING DAILY DRIVEN!!

The previous ventus are great, but these Nittos NT05s completely shadow the hankooks. I was faster in every sense and felt like the car could now handle anything i threw at it.

I also tested the tires in a canyon during the raining weather and they continued to perform amazingly. I was surprised at the level of grip they had in the rain. They still performed better than all season tires in the rain. Although, I wouldn't really push them hard on highways. Seems like the larger patches could result in hydroplanes at higher speeds.

Definitely happy with the performance of these tires.

THE BAD:

The car did wear down profusely on the track day. I completely wore the front tires down to 50% tread and I could see pieces of compound completely fly off!! These tires do waste away fairly quickly under quick driving.