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Car totalled by insurance

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Old 02-25-2015, 05:11 PM
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Car totalled by insurance

Unfortunately some idiot with a plow truck hit my car while parked in front of my house. Pretty much the door has a dent about 10" inches in diameter yet the door itself sits perfectly square. Window opens fine. And the corner of the left front fender, corner of hood, headlight and corner of front bumper. So insurance states the repairs will be more than the car's value.
Its a 2002 Maxima 6 speed 120K miles. Very low miles and this car is an otherwise awesome condition. No engine/tranny problems. Nice tires.
They state the car's value is 4,701.56 plus tax 405.51 = 5,107.07 So minus deductible of 250 =4807.07 and that will be my check.
Now I can keep the car and make it a salvaged vehicle and they'll pay me 4,157.07. That's minus $700 for salvage fees.

I'd appreciate any input as far as the actual value of the cars. Any sites that tell me almost exactly what its worth. I know you have Kellie Blue book and few others but I'm looking for the one that's most accurate so I can see if I'm getting ripped off here.

Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:34 PM
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get more for the car, they're screwing you over

My buddy was paid 6,700 for a base model 02 with 190k miles that was in OK shape by State Farm. This was about 2 yrs ago.

And the value of used japanese cars isn't going down. At all.

I would tell them to cut a 6 grand check or they're going to have to deal with you for a long time. You can make them cave.
A dealer is going to want 6k for it on their lot, so **** em. You can't replace it retail for less. In fact, go find a clean low mileage one and see what they want, then show the insurance ******.

On top of it, you weren't at fault and the dumb *** plow driver is insured, so they're paying anyway.

Last edited by Child_uv_KoRn; 02-25-2015 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Child_uv_KoRn
get more for the car, they're screwing you over

My buddy was paid 6,700 for a base model 02 with 190k miles that was in OK shape by State Farm. This was about 2 yrs ago.

And the value of used japanese cars isn't going down. At all.

I would tell them to cut a 6 grand check or they're going to have to deal with you for a long time. You can make them cave.
A dealer is going to want 6k for it on their lot, so **** em. You can't replace it retail for less. In fact, go find a clean low mileage one and see what they want, then show the insurance ******.

On top of it, you weren't at fault and the dumb *** plow driver is insured, so they're paying anyway.
Actually sorry, I was posting quick. I forgot to mention that their estimate for damages came out to 3,000. The body shop says its gonna be more and that's why they're totalling it. So you say still even with the damages ask for 6K?
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax
Actually sorry, I was posting quick. I forgot to mention that their estimate for damages came out to 3,000. The body shop says its gonna be more and that's why they're totalling it. So you say still even with the damages ask for 6K?
I wouldn't buy it back. Take the money and find a loaded HLSD maxi from a private party. Then save or use the rest of the cash for mods.
Or better yet, buy a modded maxi off here. If you have to wait, oh, well, buy a beater 1st.
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:54 AM
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Ask for more then move onto new car
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Child_uv_KoRn
get more for the car, they're screwing you over

My buddy was paid 6,700 for a base model 02 with 190k miles that was in OK shape by State Farm. This was about 2 yrs ago.

And the value of used japanese cars isn't going down. At all.

I would tell them to cut a 6 grand check or they're going to have to deal with you for a long time. You can make them cave.
A dealer is going to want 6k for it on their lot, so **** em. You can't replace it retail for less. In fact, go find a clean low mileage one and see what they want, then show the insurance ******.

On top of it, you weren't at fault and the dumb *** plow driver is insured, so they're paying anyway.

This is not a good approach. Giant insurance companies don't "cave." Generally you can negotiate a little more but you have to be able to back it up with facts. Check NADA and use those figures. Bigger insurance companies use their own system but they are close to NADA. Just went through this with my son's Prelude.

You can "buy" the car back but the title will be void. You can part it out or repair it and bring it back up to serviceable condition determined by your state inspection. THEN you can apply for a salvage title which it will always be. A real time-consuming hassle. IMO take the check a buy something better than what you had because you will not get near that amount if you tried to sell to a private party or trade-in at a dealer in the first place.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:29 AM
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Look for local listings for your car with similar specs. Use those as comparables to determine what you feel is fair value. It's the only way you'll have a chance trying to get more for your car.

Think of it this way. They're a buyer. You're the seller. You want fair market value. The above is the only way to determine it.

Additionally, you should be able to furnish receipts and ask for reimbursement on any upgrades. Not maintenance items, upgrades only.

Agree on walking away from it. Would be a headache and super expensive to fix the car, then sell the car with a salvage title down the road. Plus, the math doesn't align. If the repairs are more than the car...why would you spend that out of your payout? You'd be in the negative.

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Old 02-26-2015, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dlndjh
This is not a good approach. Giant insurance companies don't "cave." Generally you can negotiate a little more but you have to be able to back it up with facts. Check NADA and use those figures. Bigger insurance companies use their own system but they are close to NADA. Just went through this with my son's Prelude.

You can "buy" the car back but the title will be void. You can part it out or repair it and bring it back up to serviceable condition determined by your state inspection. THEN you can apply for a salvage title which it will always be. A real time-consuming hassle. IMO take the check a buy something better than what you had because you will not get near that amount if you tried to sell to a private party or trade-in at a dealer in the first place.
Tie them up on the phone for a couple hours. They wear down. And he has facts - prices from stealers for a low mileage clean maxi.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:21 PM
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Last time my car was totalled they were using http://www.nadaguides.com/ to value the car....
basically manual Transmission obviously cost less on the estimator but not in real life....

I asked them to find the same car year model on any of the used vehicle search (autotrader for example)....eventually they caved and gave me actual market value.
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:19 PM
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In my area a manual transmission Maxima will bring $700 more than an automatic in similar condition. If you see a MT for sale, you better act fast because it will sell quickly.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:25 PM
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I appreciate all your responses. It seems that the consensus here is to get the check from them and let them keep it. Well, to add to that just put it on the alignment rack and the camber and toe is out. And on these cars you can't adjust camber which means the strut assembly is bent and in my case the lower control arm. I could install those myself because I was thinking to keep the car minus salvage fee of $700, then sell it to a private party and make it bit of money. But as most of you stated, the math won't add it plus I'll have spent a whole day in this damn cold weather under my car breaking it down and installing struts and lower control arm (and tie rod end). So in the end adding my time as labor will probably net me less money than letting them keep it. So I think that's what I'll do and I'll use NADA for the value.
Too bad. A perfect running engine and tranny...
Thanks all!
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax
I appreciate all your responses. It seems that the consensus here is to get the check from them and let them keep it. Well, to add to that just put it on the alignment rack and the camber and toe is out. And on these cars you can't adjust camber which means the strut assembly is bent and in my case the lower control arm. I could install those myself because I was thinking to keep the car minus salvage fee of $700, then sell it to a private party and make it bit of money. But as most of you stated, the math won't add it plus I'll have spent a whole day in this damn cold weather under my car breaking it down and installing struts and lower control arm (and tie rod end). So in the end adding my time as labor will probably net me less money than letting them keep it. So I think that's what I'll do and I'll use NADA for the value.
Too bad. A perfect running engine and tranny...
Thanks all!
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nestorlugo
I tried but got a whole bunch of html garbage. I'll try to post pics tonight.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax
I tried but got a whole bunch of html garbage. I'll try to post pics tonight.
use correct tags and correct link

one method...

*img* www.xxxx.com/.jpg */img* change ** to []
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:59 PM
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The insurance companies nowadays will try to total a car that's not in need of being totaled. The cars their totaling are boarder line or above total. I would tell you post the pics up and see how bad the damages are. I seen cars that had a major hit and that were not including the major frame work they have totaled thoses cars out. This is a good example there was a black 2012 Nissan maxima se fully loaded at my dealer and the car had only 13k on the odometer and the car was repairable and the frame was marginable damaged and they have totaled the car out. I would make sure the insurance adjuster comes out and takes a look at the car. The pictures would be nice. I would keep the car if the frame and the whole car was not damaged just the doors as stated.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:22 PM
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Pics posted. Sorry, don't know how to make them open right on the page itself.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/2x4r...222_172948.jpg
http://www.filefactory.com/file/5d7l...222_172958.jpg
http://www.filefactory.com/file/4iu2...222_173022.jpg
http://www.filefactory.com/file/u78n...222_173040.jpg
http://www.filefactory.com/file/426b...222_173049.jpg

And like I said earlier the car needs struts, lower control arm, tie rod end and who knows if frame is bent.

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Old 02-28-2015, 03:09 AM
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What ahem..you call that a total, that is not a total or a total loss. This is bs from your policy insurance company or theirs. This door can be fixed or replaced, I am sure the side srs bags did not deploy. The rim is a minor cosmetic damage. The frame might not be damage at all, if so just minor not enough to total this vehicle. I would just get a request, from other insurances or the body shop personally and get the bill to the company personally, if there playing games.
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Old 02-28-2015, 03:51 AM
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I would try to get a settlement check from the INS company. Then I would pickup used parts from a salvage company (including a wheel), repair it myself or get it repaired and painted.






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Old 02-28-2015, 06:31 AM
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Yea man if your patient you can find parts the exact same color. If there gonna total it out i would just let them. Fix it get it reissued with a salvage title and keep driving it. Doesnt look like it was hard enough to break anything underneath.
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:31 AM
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I don't understand the whole salvage title thing. Is your insurance company paying the damages under a hit-and-run incident? That may be the difference.

My son's 95 Maxima was rear-ended by a texting Escalade driver. Progressive was the other party's insurance company.

To give an idea I had purchased the car 18 months earlier for $1,500. The insurance company estimated the damages at $2800 thus a total loss. Total loss value, according to the insurance company was $2,900. I told them I wanted to keep the car. The said I had a buy-back option of $300 that I could take as a discount off the $2,900 total loss amount. So the insurance company issued me a check for $2,600.

Since the title was already in my name there was no salvage title assignment needed. I kept the title and the car. No carfax blemish was issued either.

Since I really didn't want to fix the car, I sold the car to a guy who's brother-in-law owns a body shop for $700. They could fix the car and drive it or resell it -- I didn't care. Though the guy is still driving around the wrecked car roughly 3 years later.

If you have a clear title to the car, why would the insurance company want to re-assign it as a salvage title?

Last edited by CS_AR; 02-28-2015 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 02-28-2015, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CS_AR
I don't understand the whole salvage title thing. Is your insurance company paying the damages under a hit-and-run incident? That may be the difference.

My son's 95 Maxima was rear-ended by a texting Escalade driver. Progressive was the other party's insurance company.

To give an idea I had purchased the car 18 months earlier for $1,500. The insurance company estimated the damages at $2800 thus a total loss. Total loss value, according to the insurance company was $2,900. I told them I wanted to keep the car. The said I had a buy-back option of $300 that I could take as a discount off the $2,900 total loss amount. So the insurance company issued me a check for $2,600.

Since the title was already in my name there was no salvage title assignment needed. I kept the title and the car. No carfax blemish was issued either.

Since I really didn't want to fix the car, I sold the car to a guy who's brother-in-law owns a body shop for $700. They could fix the car and drive it or resell it -- I didn't care. Though the guy is still driving around the wrecked car roughly 3 years later.

If you have a clear title to the car, why would the insurance company want to re-assign it as a salvage title?
My understanding is that once they issue money for the car's value then its automatically a salvaged vehicle because repairs exceed var's value. If I keep it then they charge me a salvage fee of $700 for keeping the car in a salvaged state. I'd have to get the title branded.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:53 PM
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I had a similar situation as CS AR and my title is still clean. I owned the title as well, just took the check to a shop I knew did good work and they took care of it. From your pictures it doesn't look as bad as it sounded the first time I read your thread.

Also, when the lady's insurance company told me the amount they were taking off because I wanted the car back instead of totaling it she didn't call it a salvage fee. You have the car and title in your possession, correct? Then I don't see how they can make it a salvage title.

Maybe I'm entirely wrong here. Idk I say take the check (If it won't be a salvage title), find some parts, and fix her up.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:09 PM
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yea there playing you. I smacked a tree when i had my CTS damage was $5000 and way more damage.
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Old 02-28-2015, 03:20 PM
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I mean I took it to my guy. He does nothing but good work. He doesn't take shortcuts. Maybe on the pricier side but I trust no one else.

Also I'm considering the fact that the car's exhaust is pretty rotted but hasn't blown into pieces yet. It's still the stock exhaust from factory. That will be quite expensive to replace it. Also considering the fact that I've heard that on these cars the cats disintegrate and the dust gets sucked back into the cylinder essentially sanding down the rings. So if that happens my engine is toast so I'm considering future disasters here. And for me to take the exhaust off and put headers on a 02 vehicle it's a lot of work,time and money. So hmmm
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Old 02-28-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax
I mean I took it to my guy. He does nothing but good work. He doesn't take shortcuts. Maybe on the pricier side but I trust no one else.

Also I'm considering the fact that the car's exhaust is pretty rotted but hasn't blown into pieces yet. It's still the stock exhaust from factory. That will be quite expensive to replace it. Also considering the fact that I've heard that on these cars the cats disintegrate and the dust gets sucked back into the cylinder essentially sanding down the rings. So if that happens my engine is toast so I'm considering future disasters here. And for me to take the exhaust off and put headers on a 02 vehicle it's a lot of work,time and money. So hmmm
That's just sad..... This max has nothing but cosmetic damage.....

The fact a member is willing to scrap it for the damage shown in the pics is dumb.... You can fix it and have dough left for a full exhaust from the block and beyond.....smh

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Old 02-28-2015, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nestorlugo
That's just sad..... This max has nothing but cosmetic damage.....

The fact a member is willing to scrap it for the damage shown in the pics is dumb.... You can fix it and have dough left for a full exhaust from the block and beyond.....smh

If you read my previous posts It's more than just cosmetic. And the word "willing" is probably not the right word here. I love the car. But I have to stay realistic with costs here...
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax
Well, to add to that just put it on the alignment rack and the camber and toe is out. And on these cars you can't adjust camber which means the strut assembly is bent and in my case the lower control arm. I could install those myself because I was thinking to keep the car minus salvage fee of $700, then sell it to a private party and make it bit of money. But as most of you stated, the math won't add it plus I'll have spent a whole day in this damn cold weather under my car breaking it down and installing struts and lower control arm (and tie rod end). So in the end adding my time as labor will probably net me less money than letting them keep it.
Thanks all!


I read your thread first!!!! and this maxi is salvageable without a salvage title despite what them folks told you....get another opinion.....based of what i sees in those pics idk how a control arm or a strut could be bent....
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Old 02-28-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nestorlugo
I read your thread first!!!! and this maxi is salvageable without a salvage title despite what them folks told you....get another opinion.....based of what i sees in those pics idk how a control arm or a strut could be bent....
I don't know. All I know is my body guy is stating that the repairs with everything blending paint this that will be more than the estimate Progressive gave him. And that much more will be over the car's value.

As far a control arm and strut being bent. Well the plow hit the car on the rim. So the rim took most of the force. This forced suspension parts to buckle. And yeah I guess it takes a lot to bend a control arm and strut. But when the camber is way out ( I did see this myself on the alignment machine) how else do you adjust camber? You don't. It's preset at the factory. The strut assembly holds the spindle in proper place and alignment.

Eyewitnesses stated this guy was going real fast down my street so it took a nice hit to that rim although it may not look it.

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Old 02-28-2015, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax

I don't know. All I know is my body guy is stating that the repairs with everything blending pain this that will be more than the estimate Progressive gave him. And that much more will be over the car's value.

As far a control arm and strut being bent. Well the plow hit the car on the rim. So the rim took most of the force. This forced suspension parts to buckle. And yeah I guess it takes a lot to bent a control arm and strut. But when the camber is way out ( I did see this myself on the alignment machine) how else do you adjust camber? You don't. It's preset at the factory. The strut assembly holds the spindle in proper place and alignment.

Eyewitnesses stated this guy was going real fast down my street so it took a nice hit to that rim although it may not look it.
Yea true... Did the alignment shop give you a printout?
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Old 02-28-2015, 09:11 PM
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I dont know why you would want to fix it.... take the money buy it from the insurance company and buy a new car same color and voila you have one kick *** parts car for your new ride with no headaches or wasted money on a salvaged vehicle that only has worth in the sentimental value you have for it, or you could part it out and make a profit.


I used to work for a vw dealership we had a jetta come in on trade, passenger front strut was gone and it needed outer tie rod driver side, after the alignment i took it for a test drive and macked a nice NE pot hole... nice bubble developed above the drivers door and one along the fender that wasnt there before long story short the car was junk after that warped the unibody. just saying these things can do more damage than you will realise at first with one good hit.

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Old 03-02-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BoostinBy
I dont know why you would want to fix it.... take the money buy it from the insurance company and buy a new car same color and voila you have one kick *** parts car for your new ride with no headaches or wasted money on a salvaged vehicle that only has worth in the sentimental value you have for it, or you could part it out and make a profit.


I used to work for a vw dealership we had a jetta come in on trade, passenger front strut was gone and it needed outer tie rod driver side, after the alignment i took it for a test drive and macked a nice NE pot hole... nice bubble developed above the drivers door and one along the fender that wasnt there before long story short the car was junk after that warped the unibody. just saying these things can do more damage than you will realise at first with one good hit.
Yeah after much hours of ponder I think this is the way to go. It's tough right now to go look at cars with this weather and snow. It's frustrating. So I guess if I take the money I can still drive it just in a salvaged state I believe. Still have to get that info from the insurance. So take money and take my time getting another car since it drives ok. It pulls to the right but nothing where it's gonna go off the road. My mechanic said alignment is kind of way off but nothing is falling apart. We did notice though that now the radiator sits crooked in the mounts some. So I believe at this point that the front cross member got pushed to the right so its' not just struts and lower control arm. But at this point who cares. Just drive it till it dies since it starts up everyday. I do hate driving cars that look like **** and hit though. but I'll have to live with that. Although autopartswarehouse.com might be the key here. They have front bumpers unpainted. Or even the junkhard around here...

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Old 03-02-2015, 04:09 PM
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I'd have to say i'd agree with boostinby on this one. If it needs that much time and money spent on it not to mention the inconvenience of being without a vehicle while all the work is getting done it's probably best to get another max in good condition turn key and go so to say of equal or lesser value and strip what spare parts you need or may want for the future from the current car then scrap it or part out more parts for a profit before scrapping it. You'd still get some more money for the scrap at the yard. It's kind of a win win if you look at it in a positive way he may have even done you a favour even though nobody likes to part with a vehicle with sentimental value. The main thing is atleast nobody was hurt in the end.

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Old 03-02-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ac max 92
I'd have to say i'd agree with boostinby on this one. If it needs that much time and money spent on it not to mention the inconvenience of being without a vehicle while all the work is getting done it's probably best to get another max in good condition turn key and go so to say of equal or lesser value and strip what spare parts you need or may want for the future from the current car then scrap it or part out more parts for a profit before scrapping it. You'd still get some more money for the scrap at the yard. It's kind of a win win if you look at it in a positive way he may have even done you a favour even though nobody likes to part with a vehicle with sentimental value. The main thing is atleast nobody was hurt in the end.

I think I'm agreeing more and more. Initially I didn't wanna lose out on the $700 salvage fee that they would charge me to keep it because I wanted the most money I can get so I can go get me another car. But now realizing that after doing car searches for a week it's not possible to get exaclty a good deal in a week, will take time to land a good reliable vehicle. So forget the $700.00. I'll make that parting it out or even selling it in the near future, and I can still drive it even if it's in a salvaged state till I can take my time getting another vehicle. And yes, very hard to let of of a vehicle that's been good to you.

Last edited by 02nissmax; 03-02-2015 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:46 PM
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The best advice here would be that you should look at the car's value and see how much the repair is, than just get a cheap or a good known friend or someone with a good fair or cheap repairs for the parts and bodyshop. The frame can be pulled out if it is bent. The crossmember can be replaced or repaired better to be replaced. The bumper and parts are just a throw on. I would try to get the check cut out without the insurance and what not because of the fear for the title being salvaged. I would pay out of the pocket, if you don't want the car to be with a salvaged title. The best bet is to settle it with the company personally or just hit and run report it.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vqmaxman
The best advice here would be that you should look at the car's value and see how much the repair is, than just get a cheap or a good known friend or someone with a good fair or cheap repairs for the parts and bodyshop. The frame can be pulled out if it is bent. The crossmember can be replaced or repaired better to be replaced. The bumper and parts are just a throw on. I would try to get the check cut out without the insurance and what not because of the fear for the title being salvaged. I would pay out of the pocket, if you don't want the car to be with a salvaged title. The best bet is to settle it with the company personally or just hit and run report it.
Thanks for the advice here. Everyone else as well. Claim is settled.
For those that need a piece of advice like I did. Things I didn't know.
The car is a 02 so its totaled. Now as far as insurance is concerned the car is totaled. However because its so old the title doesn't get branded. My insurance will drop down to Basic liability only. So I'll save money on that. My driving record is excellent, no accidents. (knock on wood). The danger is parking it anywhere and some idiot hitting it.
Anyway, myself and a friend are gonna install some struts and lower control arm and tie rod which come to about $300 sourcing some decent parts.
As far as the body work, seems like fender is ok to leave. Needs a front bumper with fog lights. My friend will paint a new bumper for $100 which isnt bad. Not a professional job but will look as good as the way it was. Frame work is another story, if it is in fact bent. But from what we can tell it doens't look all that bad.

So in the future if I want to insure it with full Comp and Collision all I need to do is get a photo inspection from the insurance and should be good to go.

So thanks to the ahole that hit the car. I just made some free money.
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Old 03-12-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 02nissmax

Thanks for the advice here. Everyone else as well. Claim is settled.
For those that need a piece of advice like I did. Things I didn't know.
The car is a 02 so its totaled. Now as far as insurance is concerned the car is totaled. However because its so old the title doesn't get branded. My insurance will drop down to Basic liability only. So I'll save money on that. My driving record is excellent, no accidents. (knock on wood). The danger is parking it anywhere and some idiot hitting it.
Anyway, myself and a friend are gonna install some struts and lower control arm and tie rod which come to about $300 sourcing some decent parts.
As far as the body work, seems like fender is ok to leave. Needs a front bumper with fog lights. My friend will paint a new bumper for $100 which isnt bad. Not a professional job but will look as good as the way it was. Frame work is another story, if it is in fact bent. But from what we can tell it doens't look all that bad.

So in the future if I want to insure it with full Comp and Collision all I need to do is get a photo inspection from the insurance and should be good to go.

So thanks to the ahole that hit the car. I just made some free money.
I'm happy for you bruh! Even happier for the Max

Last edited by nestorlugo; 03-12-2015 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 03-12-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nestorlugo
I'm happy for you bruh! Even happier for the Max
Yeah, I couldn't let her go just yet. She's good for at least another 150K+ miles the way I've been maintaining her.
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:03 PM
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Congratulations! It's good to see things worked out in a good way.

Last edited by CS_AR; 03-12-2015 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:06 PM
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Got the suspention work done. I was comparing lower control arms and it looked as if where the lower ball joint sits was bent up making the camber negative. So now the wheel is not off center anymore. I'll take it for alignment tomorrow.
But with my luck as soon as I started the car I got a P0300 random multiple misfire. If it's not one thing it's the other.
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Old 03-24-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaka
Last time my car was totalled they were using http://www.nadaguides.com/ to value the car....
basically manual Transmission obviously cost less on the estimator but not in real life....

I asked them to find the same car year model on any of the used vehicle search (autotrader for example)....eventually they caved and gave me actual market value.
im trying to find out how much you got back, and cant find it. what ended up happening $$ wise? where u able to convince them more?
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