5.7 Gen 293 hp/ 269 Tq closed exhaust, stock cams
02-24-2012, 12:41 PM
#41
hahah, yeah i could of done 300 but i was plenty happy. Gotta leave some room for improvement! Im not DONE, more stuff to play around with! Now 300 with cutout closed THAT will be something!
02-24-2012, 01:14 PM
#43
Nice! Been watching the progress of this swap with some interest. I've been meaning to ask can the Haltech run these HR motors as a full standalone? My car is now exempt in Mass from any emissons testing, so I can run a full standalone and still be street legal.
02-24-2012, 02:08 PM
#44
02-24-2012, 02:16 PM
#45
You at one point in time admitted it, but arguing w/ the booty pounder is worse than talking to a brick wall.
02-24-2012, 02:21 PM
#46
02-24-2012, 02:35 PM
#47
Sweet!
Also remember guys, the heads on this VQ are completely different from those that are on our 2nd gen VQs. And it definitely shows. Our bottom ends can definitely pump some air. But these heads with their flow characteristics and variable cam timing free up all that power that was being left on the table.
Also remember guys, the heads on this VQ are completely different from those that are on our 2nd gen VQs. And it definitely shows. Our bottom ends can definitely pump some air. But these heads with their flow characteristics and variable cam timing free up all that power that was being left on the table.
02-24-2012, 03:56 PM
#49
One day I will shine the light in your faces, I still think it's possible w/ all of this variable stuff goin on here, once the wiz kid here figures out how to tune the cam timing we'll see some stuff then.
You at one point in time admitted it, but arguing w/ the booty pounder is worse than talking to a brick wall.
You at one point in time admitted it, but arguing w/ the booty pounder is worse than talking to a brick wall.
what did i admit thou? what i keep telling you is torq is going to drop off because thats how internal combustion engine's work, there is no way to hold peak torque all the way to redline, pay careful attention to this part, on a high performance engine. That means using all of its useable rev range not a factory capped one eg VQ37VHR. Guarantee you extend that rev limiter the drop of will start to look stats quo.
02-24-2012, 04:38 PM
#51
Stoked to see this!
In terms of FWD N/A stock cam records go..(i think you've got it ..haha)... don't know how widely known http://forums.nicoclub.com/time-for-...542554-30.html this is (and I have no idea what the mods are). Regardless of the dyno/number differences, it's really interesting to see the curve w/ the altima UIM sans EVT and the way the power starts to plateau and climb again at 5500. Even w/ the smaller plenum, elbow, TB opening (unsure if the powervalves are active and what the TB/intake is) - it doesn't seem to choke out. Considering the new gens valve +seat angle/port shape/dual power valves and the longer straighter LIM, I'm starting to believe more and more that the pressure levels in these new IM's are finely tuned with the heads and I/EVT to yield some serious air ram/dynamic supercharging - it only makes sense that this new design wasn't blind engineering or cost cutting like the old UIM... so it's really hard to know what SSIM'ing this thing gained/loss/shifted (my wild guess is shifted-right and gained peak-torque, losing a slight touch of peak HP).
That torque is soooo damn fat! now i'm just reallly curious what the top end HP/TQ relationship would be w/ OEM power-valve O/C points or even BOP's ....without CVT, haha....seeing 100hp/l on stock cams without fine timing adjustments is absolutely unreal ... keep going!
In terms of FWD N/A stock cam records go..(i think you've got it ..haha)... don't know how widely known http://forums.nicoclub.com/time-for-...542554-30.html this is (and I have no idea what the mods are). Regardless of the dyno/number differences, it's really interesting to see the curve w/ the altima UIM sans EVT and the way the power starts to plateau and climb again at 5500. Even w/ the smaller plenum, elbow, TB opening (unsure if the powervalves are active and what the TB/intake is) - it doesn't seem to choke out. Considering the new gens valve +seat angle/port shape/dual power valves and the longer straighter LIM, I'm starting to believe more and more that the pressure levels in these new IM's are finely tuned with the heads and I/EVT to yield some serious air ram/dynamic supercharging - it only makes sense that this new design wasn't blind engineering or cost cutting like the old UIM... so it's really hard to know what SSIM'ing this thing gained/loss/shifted (my wild guess is shifted-right and gained peak-torque, losing a slight touch of peak HP).
That torque is soooo damn fat! now i'm just reallly curious what the top end HP/TQ relationship would be w/ OEM power-valve O/C points or even BOP's ....without CVT, haha....seeing 100hp/l on stock cams without fine timing adjustments is absolutely unreal ... keep going!
02-24-2012, 06:25 PM
#53
Stoked to see this!
In terms of FWD N/A stock cam records go..(i think you've got it ..haha)... don't know how widely known http://forums.nicoclub.com/time-for-...542554-30.html this is (and I have no idea what the mods are). Regardless of the dyno/number differences, it's really interesting to see the curve w/ the altima UIM sans EVT and the way the power starts to plateau and climb again at 5500. Even w/ the smaller plenum, elbow, TB opening (unsure if the powervalves are active and what the TB/intake is) - it doesn't seem to choke out. Considering the new gens valve +seat angle/port shape/dual power valves and the longer straighter LIM, I'm starting to believe more and more that the pressure levels in these new IM's are finely tuned with the heads and I/EVT to yield some serious air ram/dynamic supercharging - it only makes sense that this new design wasn't blind engineering or cost cutting like the old UIM... so it's really hard to know what SSIM'ing this thing gained/loss/shifted (my wild guess is shifted-right and gained peak-torque, losing a slight touch of peak HP).
That torque is soooo damn fat! now i'm just reallly curious what the top end HP/TQ relationship would be w/ OEM power-valve O/C points or even BOP's ....without CVT, haha....seeing 100hp/l on stock cams without fine timing adjustments is absolutely unreal ... keep going!
In terms of FWD N/A stock cam records go..(i think you've got it ..haha)... don't know how widely known http://forums.nicoclub.com/time-for-...542554-30.html this is (and I have no idea what the mods are). Regardless of the dyno/number differences, it's really interesting to see the curve w/ the altima UIM sans EVT and the way the power starts to plateau and climb again at 5500. Even w/ the smaller plenum, elbow, TB opening (unsure if the powervalves are active and what the TB/intake is) - it doesn't seem to choke out. Considering the new gens valve +seat angle/port shape/dual power valves and the longer straighter LIM, I'm starting to believe more and more that the pressure levels in these new IM's are finely tuned with the heads and I/EVT to yield some serious air ram/dynamic supercharging - it only makes sense that this new design wasn't blind engineering or cost cutting like the old UIM... so it's really hard to know what SSIM'ing this thing gained/loss/shifted (my wild guess is shifted-right and gained peak-torque, losing a slight touch of peak HP).
That torque is soooo damn fat! now i'm just reallly curious what the top end HP/TQ relationship would be w/ OEM power-valve O/C points or even BOP's ....without CVT, haha....seeing 100hp/l on stock cams without fine timing adjustments is absolutely unreal ... keep going!
That altima is def putting some good power down, esp for what i think is stock manifolds?? Im just not sure how that dynopack compares to a DJ. since the wheels are taking off ill assume it reads a lil higher?
Def ready to see more of these motors in cars! Im not pushing the NA limits of this motor yet! Even with stock cams, ima see what it will really do.
hahh yeah, its just hard to tell much from vids like that though.
02-24-2012, 06:49 PM
#54
speaking from a "3.0 guys" perspective and this doesnt apply to everybody, but when you want this done but you are paying someone and they just basically say they wont do the full swap (ive asked) then "us 3.0 guys" are just straight up short folk lol... anyways back on topic... extremely sexy numbers here
02-24-2012, 06:52 PM
#55
Since you already got so much invested in the motor and everything. I would take a trip up to Hal at Dynosty in KY and let him tune that thing! I'm sure he would definitely get it OVER 300whp with the cutout closed!
02-24-2012, 07:01 PM
#57
yeah sorry i guess thats a good idea huh! ahah ill update the first post.
ok first post updated! mod list seems long but a lot of it is just 09 motor differences that i put because well they are the differences, so its a mod kinda
Last edited by SurraTT; 02-24-2012 at 07:07 PM.
02-24-2012, 07:50 PM
#58
Here is a haltech log of the 293 hp run.
Shows AFR differences between banks, also my exhaust cam positions look kinda funny, very jittery and different between banks
at 6000 rpm its 13.6 and 13.3 afr, making ~290 hp. wonder what a 12.9 would do?
Shows AFR differences between banks, also my exhaust cam positions look kinda funny, very jittery and different between banks
at 6000 rpm its 13.6 and 13.3 afr, making ~290 hp. wonder what a 12.9 would do?
02-24-2012, 11:12 PM
#60
wAts wrong wit booty, a man's butt?
what did i admit thou? what i keep telling you is torq is going to drop off because thats how internal combustion engine's work, there is no way to hold peak torque all the way to redline, pay careful attention to this part, on a high performance engine. That means using all of its useable rev range not a factory capped one eg VQ37VHR. Guarantee you extend that rev limiter the drop of will start to look stats quo.
what did i admit thou? what i keep telling you is torq is going to drop off because thats how internal combustion engine's work, there is no way to hold peak torque all the way to redline, pay careful attention to this part, on a high performance engine. That means using all of its useable rev range not a factory capped one eg VQ37VHR. Guarantee you extend that rev limiter the drop of will start to look stats quo.
Re-read my thread, you don't understand what I want.
We're clouding up these awesome stock motor #'s w/ our nonsense.
I don't like loosing 50+ ft/lbs in my powerband, I've posted dynos of cars loosing 20 ft/lbs (cars that actually make tq, not talkin about a DEK which does loose very little but has none to begin with... Which is why I got away from Hondas) or less from peak to set redline already, it's possible even w/ a simplier motor, I still believe there's a lot more in this motor just because of the million possibilities he has to fool with on it, he has the peak curves but now if we can just get the area under the curve, this will be one monster at every aspect of driving.
I'm particular to area under the curve because of my new found love for road racing, these IVT's and EVTs and what not fully doin work can always have me w/ an awesome amount of power exiting a corner at any throttle position which would make a lot of more expensive car owners very upset (which is what I loved doing w/ the red car until it's demise after the road course).
I get this from years and years of attending many meets where I see high power cars dyno, track, autox and road course, it's clear what benefits there are to a good driver w/ a motor that makes power across the board.
Now I'm sitting here at the edge of my laptop biting my nails wondering what's next, maybe we've found the holy grail of N/A V6's, I can only wait, because this car gets better and better with each dyno.
Made my point, I'm out until the next dyno
Last edited by aackshun; 02-24-2012 at 11:14 PM.
02-25-2012, 07:28 AM
#61
Re-read my thread, you don't understand what I want.
We're clouding up these awesome stock motor #'s w/ our nonsense.
I don't like loosing 50+ ft/lbs in my powerband, I've posted dynos of cars loosing 20 ft/lbs (cars that actually make tq, not talkin about a DEK which does loose very little but has none to begin with... Which is why I got away from Hondas) or less from peak to set redline already, it's possible even w/ a simplier motor, I still believe there's a lot more in this motor just because of the million possibilities he has to fool with on it, he has the peak curves but now if we can just get the area under the curve, this will be one monster at every aspect of driving.
I'm particular to area under the curve because of my new found love for road racing, these IVT's and EVTs and what not fully doin work can always have me w/ an awesome amount of power exiting a corner at any throttle position which would make a lot of more expensive car owners very upset (which is what I loved doing w/ the red car until it's demise after the road course).
I get this from years and years of attending many meets where I see high power cars dyno, track, autox and road course, it's clear what benefits there are to a good driver w/ a motor that makes power across the board.
Now I'm sitting here at the edge of my laptop biting my nails wondering what's next, maybe we've found the holy grail of N/A V6's, I can only wait, because this car gets better and better with each dyno.
Made my point, I'm out until the next dyno
And again, torque is not a problem in the DEK.
02-26-2012, 05:44 AM
#64
Look at the smoothness of that torque curve on the second graph!!!! 
I think you could get the first graph torque curve to look like that with more tuning....AWESOME!!
Dude you could make some good money doing the 09 swap in 5.5gen Maximas!! If I was keeping my car all motor I would no doubt drive down there and drop it off!!! I know I'm not the only one!! Some kind of custom intake manifold would make that power even greater! I would do some cams while the engine was out
I think you could get the first graph torque curve to look like that with more tuning....AWESOME!!Dude you could make some good money doing the 09 swap in 5.5gen Maximas!! If I was keeping my car all motor I would no doubt drive down there and drop it off!!! I know I'm not the only one!! Some kind of custom intake manifold would make that power even greater! I would do some cams while the engine was out
02-26-2012, 09:35 AM
#67
Look at the smoothness of that torque curve on the second graph!!!! I think you could get the first graph torque curve to look like that with more tuning....AWESOME!!
Dude you could make some good money doing the 09 swap in 5.5gen Maximas!! If I was keeping my car all motor I would no doubt drive down there and drop it off!!! I know I'm not the only one!! Some kind of custom intake manifold would make that power even greater! I would do some cams while the engine was out
I think you could get the first graph torque curve to look like that with more tuning....AWESOME!!Dude you could make some good money doing the 09 swap in 5.5gen Maximas!! If I was keeping my car all motor I would no doubt drive down there and drop it off!!! I know I'm not the only one!! Some kind of custom intake manifold would make that power even greater! I would do some cams while the engine was out
Hahah the 09 motor would do GREAT with F/I
Haha yeah that's the thing, this motor cost more then a custom i/m but its a totally better starting point. Since the 5.5's are getting older and most of the motors burn oil, and are worn out. This swap should really become something that we see more often!
Plans are:
Put stock cattman y pipe on
go to dyno and do some tuning
02-26-2012, 03:54 PM
#68
OK so im trying to figure out much as i can about the variable cams.
This whole time i though EVT was for low end power. but this is strait from the FSM
" This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the exhaust
valve to increase engine torque and output in a range of high engine speed."
The stock haltech map runs 15 degrees of advancement from 3500 rpm all the way to redline.
Im backed it down to 11 and 10 from 6000 and up. (because i thought it was for low end power, so i advanced it more in the low / mid range. I tried to copy the stock ecu maps that i have gotten with osiris. So i guess that was not a good idea, as i could be leaving some power in there. I need to put it back to stock 15. And maybe even more then that.
My concern is damaging the motor due to piston to valve damage? Ive never herd of anyone messing up a VQ35 due to changing cam timing maps. But i need to find out if its possible and what are the limits.
With being able to tune IVT and EVT i think this motor is really capable of even more power and tq. Main thing is better curves.
Ive read where EVT and power output is mixed. some say there IS power in EVT some say there is no power in evt and to leave it at 0.........
So by my little test there def is power in EVT, now its a matter of finding how much and how the graph changes.
That run with evt working was running 15-20 in low end, 13-11 mid , and 11-9 at 6k+
So i need to decrease the low end advancement and add back to 15 in top end!
WHO IS WITH ME????????????
This whole time i though EVT was for low end power. but this is strait from the FSM
" This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the exhaust
valve to increase engine torque and output in a range of high engine speed."
The stock haltech map runs 15 degrees of advancement from 3500 rpm all the way to redline.
Im backed it down to 11 and 10 from 6000 and up. (because i thought it was for low end power, so i advanced it more in the low / mid range. I tried to copy the stock ecu maps that i have gotten with osiris. So i guess that was not a good idea, as i could be leaving some power in there. I need to put it back to stock 15. And maybe even more then that.
My concern is damaging the motor due to piston to valve damage? Ive never herd of anyone messing up a VQ35 due to changing cam timing maps. But i need to find out if its possible and what are the limits.
With being able to tune IVT and EVT i think this motor is really capable of even more power and tq. Main thing is better curves.
Ive read where EVT and power output is mixed. some say there IS power in EVT some say there is no power in evt and to leave it at 0.........
So by my little test there def is power in EVT, now its a matter of finding how much and how the graph changes.
That run with evt working was running 15-20 in low end, 13-11 mid , and 11-9 at 6k+
So i need to decrease the low end advancement and add back to 15 in top end!
WHO IS WITH ME????????????
02-26-2012, 06:04 PM
#70
Crazy, All the work you've done that we've witnessed or heard of confirmation you've got nothing to prove. your innovations are pretty slick, the crap you've had the ***** to pull off - you get nothing but props from this guy. Good job on your hard work and tenacity. Get after it playa. Good Job. enjoy the ride.
I'm proud of you kid. 
I'm proud of you kid. Well here it is! Took 3 dyno trips over the last 6 months but ive finally got the car where i want it! I stuck with it and didnt quit. My VERY first pull on stock ecu was 234 hp i beleive, now im at 293 with the Haltech.
CUTOUT CLOSED = STD 293 / 269 , SAE 287 / 263
CUTOUT OPEN= STD 298 / 271 , SAE 292 / 266
I have STOCK CAMS!!!!
Done 20 pulls, not a lot of tuning, at one point made 271 TQ with closed cutout. First pull was 287, then 289 on 2ed, so with a little tuning i hit 292 several times at 293 one time.
The SSIM 09 manifold is NUTSSSSSSSSSSS I make 290 hp at 6000, by 71000 rpm im making 286! so over 1100 rpm top end i lose ONLY 4 HP! I would like to extend the limiter even more and see how power falls off!
I figured now that i'm "up here" ill have to prove it even more so i have vids to prove whats going on, 1 with cutout closed and a 292 hp run, and then cutout open at 297 run, took these to prove there is no dyno tricks, no airfilter off none of that crap. I literally done pull after pull after pull, then cool down to open cutout, then 3 more pulls. I was expecting to brake 300 with cutout open cuz last time i got 8whp from it, this time i didnt get much at all.
Cutout closed
Cutout open
Oh with smoothing at 0 on this run max power = 308 / 271 hahaa
Id like to get a run file of a 5.5 gen, 6 mt, ssim, 3.5 maf, tuned, ANYONE HAVE ONE? that's the most fair comparison of old motor vs 09 that i can think of.
Ill upload my run files today, and post links to vids when dyno shop uploads em. ALSO i have Haltech logs that i will post to, you cal dl the software and view them.
Here are the Run files and Haltech logs, its a google docs folder
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzm...M21mR0x6ZkliQQ
MOD LIST at time of dyno runs!
5.7 Gen Mod list:
Engine-
- 2009 Maxima VQ35
- 75 mm Throttle body
- Composite intake manifold (first one SSIM'd)
- 52 mm intake ports on heads
- 10.6:1 Compression
- 09 stock cams
- 380 cc DW injectors
- ARP rodbolts
- ACL Race bearings
- Cattman genIII headers
- Cattman 3" catback
- 3" ypipe with cutout (unequal length)
- Removed stock oil warmer
- 3.5 Intake Piping
- Velocity Stack
- 6" AEM Dryflow Filter
- 4.133 Final drive
- Fidanza flywheel
- Spec stage 3 clutch
Engine Management-
- Haltech 350Z ECU
- VoltageDrop.net Plug and Play Haltech harness
- Haltech Dual channel Wideband
- Dual channel wb gauge
- Exhaust Valve Timing ran by Haltech only
CUTOUT CLOSED = STD 293 / 269 , SAE 287 / 263
CUTOUT OPEN= STD 298 / 271 , SAE 292 / 266
I have STOCK CAMS!!!!
Done 20 pulls, not a lot of tuning, at one point made 271 TQ with closed cutout. First pull was 287, then 289 on 2ed, so with a little tuning i hit 292 several times at 293 one time.
The SSIM 09 manifold is NUTSSSSSSSSSSS I make 290 hp at 6000, by 71000 rpm im making 286! so over 1100 rpm top end i lose ONLY 4 HP! I would like to extend the limiter even more and see how power falls off!
I figured now that i'm "up here" ill have to prove it even more so i have vids to prove whats going on, 1 with cutout closed and a 292 hp run, and then cutout open at 297 run, took these to prove there is no dyno tricks, no airfilter off none of that crap. I literally done pull after pull after pull, then cool down to open cutout, then 3 more pulls. I was expecting to brake 300 with cutout open cuz last time i got 8whp from it, this time i didnt get much at all.
Cutout closed
Cutout open
Oh with smoothing at 0 on this run max power = 308 / 271 hahaa
Id like to get a run file of a 5.5 gen, 6 mt, ssim, 3.5 maf, tuned, ANYONE HAVE ONE? that's the most fair comparison of old motor vs 09 that i can think of.
Ill upload my run files today, and post links to vids when dyno shop uploads em. ALSO i have Haltech logs that i will post to, you cal dl the software and view them.
Here are the Run files and Haltech logs, its a google docs folder
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzm...M21mR0x6ZkliQQ
MOD LIST at time of dyno runs!
5.7 Gen Mod list:
Engine-
- 2009 Maxima VQ35
- 75 mm Throttle body
- Composite intake manifold (first one SSIM'd)
- 52 mm intake ports on heads
- 10.6:1 Compression
- 09 stock cams
- 380 cc DW injectors
- ARP rodbolts
- ACL Race bearings
- Cattman genIII headers
- Cattman 3" catback
- 3" ypipe with cutout (unequal length)
- Removed stock oil warmer
- 3.5 Intake Piping
- Velocity Stack
- 6" AEM Dryflow Filter
- 4.133 Final drive
- Fidanza flywheel
- Spec stage 3 clutch
Engine Management-
- Haltech 350Z ECU
- VoltageDrop.net Plug and Play Haltech harness
- Haltech Dual channel Wideband
- Dual channel wb gauge
- Exhaust Valve Timing ran by Haltech only
02-26-2012, 06:15 PM
#71
def not a bad idea! Hal is pretty cool, he's the one that got me into the org and started me down the turbo path (which will happen... one day, haha). certainly wouldn't hurt to send him a couple of emails.
02-26-2012, 06:57 PM
#72
thanks!
haha yeah! Without the org this would of never happened, shoot without the org no telling what car id have right now!
I think the its never been done before is some of the best motivation! Take a look in the honda world, they are FULL of crazy stuff like this.
You are in NC??? where at?
I made this thread as i know there are some good tuners over there.
http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/54935...e-step-in.html
The dyno vids should be up sometime soon, the dyno shop is gonna upload them.
Im actually ready to get back on the dyno for some cam timing messing around!
Crazy, All the work you've done that we've witnessed or heard of confirmation you've got nothing to prove. your innovations are pretty slick, the crap you've had the ***** to pull off - you get nothing but props from this guy. Good job on your hard work and tenacity. Get after it playa. Good Job. enjoy the ride.
I'm proud of you kid.
I'm proud of you kid. haha yeah! Without the org this would of never happened, shoot without the org no telling what car id have right now!
I think the its never been done before is some of the best motivation! Take a look in the honda world, they are FULL of crazy stuff like this.
You are in NC??? where at?
I made this thread as i know there are some good tuners over there.
http://my350z.com/forum/tuning/54935...e-step-in.html
The dyno vids should be up sometime soon, the dyno shop is gonna upload them.
Im actually ready to get back on the dyno for some cam timing messing around!
02-27-2012, 07:18 AM
#75
Wow hey! haha Well im glad you are coming back! And to post in my thread too! This must be the guy reving to 7500 with stock rod bolts!?!?! I still don't beleive see how your motor is still together! i bet your tach is off! Thats been "getting" me ever since you said it on FB!!
Last edited by SurraTT; 02-27-2012 at 07:21 AM.
02-27-2012, 07:26 AM
#76
Wow hey! haha Well im glad you are coming back! And to post in my thread too! This must be the guy reving to 7500 with stock rod bolts!?!?! I still don't beleive see how your motor is still together! i bet your tach is off! Thats been "getting" me ever since you said it on FB!!
02-27-2012, 07:32 AM
#77
02-27-2012, 04:23 PM
#78
02-27-2012, 04:29 PM
#79
02-27-2012, 04:50 PM
#80
The motor is in the car and it does run but it needs to be tuned on a stand alone computer
If I have a chance tomorrow i'll call and see WTF he's talking about. For some reason, I think I might get a good laugh out of this.