MHM1

Hello everybody. I recently got a bone stock 1987 Nissan Maxima SE with a 5 speed manual from a family friend who was getting rid of it.

The car was bought new off the showroom floor and driven for 26 years as a DD. Despite all of this, it is in immaculate condition. No cracks on the dash. Everything still works and only minor things here and there.

However, there are some things that I need some help with.

When I got it, it was running on 5 cylinders.
There is a bad engine mount.
Possibly clogged up injectors.
A couple of rust spots on the rear spoiler and trunk lid.
General dry-rotting and oldness of hoses, etc.

What can I say? It is very old and needs a tune up.

I fixed the cylinder issue by replacing the spark plugs. (I was shocked at how easy a fix it was.)

I now need to figure out how to replace the motor mounts and clean the injectors.

There are some things I wish to discuss as well. I am 14 years old and about to turn 15 in December (I can get my permit.). I have this car and I have
around 3k of my own money to fix it. I want to focus not on aesthetics so much but just getting it to run right. I also would like to know what is possible to do with the car performance wise. I have read a couple of threads concerning turbo'ing(?) the stock VG30E and found that it is ALOT of work and requires a welder and experience (I don't have either.).

So my questions are as follows:

Any tips on changing motor mounts? Info is highly appreciated.

What are some of things that will break soon and are worth replacing sooner rather than later?

Is it worth turning it in to a performance car?

--Michael

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

injector issues can be caused by the O-rings going bad, 80s and 90s Nissan injector O-rings are allergic to ethanol, it chews the O-rings up. and nowadays most places add ethanol to their gas, up here in Canada i know Esso and Shell dont put ethanol in 91 grade. if its running on 6 cylinders after changing the spark plugs, theres places you can ship all your injectors out to that will clean them and send them back to you

first thing that needs to be done is the timing belt, all VG30E except the ones in Mercury Villager and Nissan Quest vans are interference. if the timing belt breaks, the pistons smash the valves and youre looking at rebuilding the top end or a whole new engine. if you have no FOR SURE record of when the timing belt was last replaced, just replace it. along with the water pump, thermostat, crank sensor (optional i guess), serpentine belts, other seals, etc

best thing you can do for the motor mounts is get a book on the car. auto parts stores usually have a whole shelf of Haynes or some other brand of repair manuals for 15 bucks or whatever. theyre handy, i usually buy the Haynes, Chilton, and OEM books for every vehicle i buy

turboing it is the least of your worries, but you can use Z31 turbo parts. there is still custom worked involved, at your age its gonna be enough work getting the car running well again never mind boosting it. boosting a NA engine isnt one of those Saturday afternoon things

if it were mine, i would just do everything at once. replace the motor mount, do the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, remove the injectors and send them out to be cleaned, change all the fluids, etc. you know how to change spark plugs at least which is good, but changing the timing belt can suck if you dont know what youre doing. last time i checked at work, at $120 a hour labour its $1500 for the timing belt and water pump on a VG30E. back in the day before i knew things, a backyard mechanic did everything i listed before on my VG for a little over $1000 me supplying parts.

performance wise is up to you, just have to remember for 3rd gens and under, theres little aftermarket these days. and youre only going to get as much performance as a front drive sedan can give you, but nonetheless its a good platform to learn on and fix up. would be worth fixing the Maxima up, getting it reliable, and in a few years get a 240sx or something for a performance car. youll at least have the Maxima as a back up car then

MHM1

Thanks! I have the shop manuals for it. They were kindly provided by the previous owner. Also, When I replaced the spark plugs, the engine took about 3 cranks to get going. Would this be an injector issue or was it just getting air out of the system from the tops of the cylinders being exposed.

I have been reading up on changing the timing belt in it and there's quite a lot to do. Would definitely take all weekend. So your telling me while I am replacing the timing belt under there I should replace the water pump, thermostat and crank sensors, serpentine belts(?), and other seals/gaskets?

I have seen most of these things like the head gaskets, seals, etc for sale on the internet in a big set that you can buy that has them all.

Also, is there any special thing to cleaning injectors? Why can't I do them at home? Where is the best place to send them if I can't do it myself?

I'm also having a hard time with info on engine mounts in the book. What info can you give on them. How many are there? Which ones go bad and need to be replaced more often? Can I jack the engine up enough to change them or do I need to completely take out the engine?

Anyway, thanks for your input. I really appreciate the help.

-Michael

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

long cranking could be anything, first things to rule out are fuel and spark. fuel pressure you can rule out with a fuel pressure gauge, and spark you can test with a special little tool auto stores sell or do the old school screwdriver way. and yes with the timing belt its easier to do everything at the same time

ive never sent injectors to be cleaned before, but i think they do a spray pattern test when theyre done. otherwise searching Google might have something on how to clean them yourself

its been a while and i cant remember how many engine mounts VG have, but what makes you think yours are bad?

MHM1

It doesn't take long to crank anymore. It just took 3 times to start after I installed the spark plugs. All cranks after that have been fine and started right away. I still want to check the injectors however. The previous owner said something about the injectors might need some cleaning anyway. Will some STP cleaner into the fuel system work? I know STP sells fuel system cleaner that also cleans your injectors as well.

The engine mount issue I know is true.

1.) The engine feels rough and gets worse at 2500+ RPM. Big vibrations and just feels off.
2.) The previous owner told me it had a bad mount anyway. He didn't mention which one though and the Nissan Service Manual for the car doesn't have ANYTHING on engine mounts. I believe some person on the internet said it had 4 though.

I think I am going to do research on parts and stuff so I can completely fix everything the next break I get in school.
I also think I am going to get a $200 1 Ton engine hoist as a good investment.
I want to do some work with the block and stuff anyway and taking it out to work on it would make changing everything a whole heck of a lot easier.

-Michael

seabob4

Check the center mount on the front of the engine, this is the one that usually suffers.

I use the Haynes manual, whichever you have, read the section on swapping out the timing belt while you're under the hood, so you can familiarize yourself with what the words say and the pictures show while all that stuff is in front of you.

I have an '87 5-speed like you, I changed out the gear oil to Royal Purple 80W-90 couple years ago, gearbox shifts like a dream. I'd recommend same.

I to bought my first '87 SE off the lot 26 years ago, demo with 1500 on the clock. Love these cars!!

1990se5speed

Keep your head up

MHM1

**UPDATE** I have been working on it a lot. My very awesome neighbor works on cars alot and had an engine hoist, stand, and a place to let me work on the car. I have decided to do a rebuild, clean injectors (Send them to Mr. Injector for ultrasonic cleaning), change engine mounts, change oil/filter, change air filter, and change some old, dry-rotted hoses.

I am also going to be painting the trunk. There are a couple of rust spots that I found when I removed the old and cracked rear lip spoiler. Minor exterior body work here and there.

I don't really want to mess with it too much because of the fact that it is a bear to find specialty parts for that car. VG30E generic engine stuff isn't too bad but once you get started on vehicle specific stuff the money just starts to burn, which is why I have decided to sell it within the next year. The interior is in truly amazing shape. It even had a top of the line pioneer stereo system put in by the previous owner. The exterior paint waxed up very nicely and it in decent shape other than the 2 surface rust spots on the trunk.

What would a Maxima like this sell for? I was hoping around 5k because of the collectors value. I saw a wagon selling for 8k in Utah and a really crappy GXE selling for 1800 in florida or something. I don't know where this would fall.

seabob4

Basically, she will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for her. Just because we all love our Maximas does not mean the rest of the world does. My '87 I picked up for $1100 in Palm Harbor (Tampa Bay) FL. Was mechanic maintained, she drives like new. I drive her like she was meant to driven, she gets the best fluids, oil change every 2500 miles, gave her a fresh wax job a couple days ago, she has a 5-speed...but what could I get for her if I were to sell her? I would hope $1500, maybe $2K...maybe.

You see that one that was linked on ebay, the one that sold for $3400 I do believe? That girl was pristine, and I mean pristine! So that should give you an idea...

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

hate to say it but its not really a collector car unless its to a Maxima specific person. if you do the timing belt etc i would say 2k max. better to keep it

only collector Maximas really are turbo diesel 1st gens, theyre very hard to find now and still sought after

TransAmBandit

If you're looking to restore and sell it for a lot of money. Just give up now and sell it for $500.

If you're close I'll buy it. lol

seabob4

Back in '87 when I bought my first Maxima new ($22.5K sticker on an SE), I was also considering the Toyota Cressida. Pretty much a direct competitor to the Max, but once started looking realized they were too foo-foo for me. Plenty of power with the Supra motor in there, but the Max just "had it" over the Cressida...

Fast forward 26 years later, there's a dude who has the same vintage Cressida as my Max, lives somewhere around me, keeps it in pretty damn good shape. Black guy around my age I guess. We'll pass each other, kinda give each other that knowing look. We know what we've got, but not too many others do.

I was sitting at a light last week, windows down, roof open, noticed the older guy sitting next to me in a newer Accord checking out the Max. Obviously he knew that car. He said something, turned down the stereo, he asks what year. Tell him an '87, he says nice. Then I tell him it's a 5-speed...dude, his eyes just lit up!

Back when the 2nd gens were new, let me tell you, you got the looks!! She was a VERY desirable car at the time, right up there with the Bimmer 318 and 325, the Saab 900, heads and tails above whatever any American make had to offer. Certainly wasn't cheap (base GLEs were around $15K), but if you could afford it, the Max was up there with the best. Guy I worked with, he bought a new Acura Integra, he thought he had a nice car 'til he took a ride in my Max...

TransAmBandit

Here in NYC, the Maxima used to be a drug dealer car back in the 80's. lololol

seabob4

Dealer's got plenty of coin, can pretty much buy what they want...

Back then, my favorite, and most desired car was the Porsche 911, mid-80s. S, Carrera, Turbo (no Targa, hate Targas!), all looked just totally sexy and cool...and had the performance to match! Way out of my league bucks wise. These days? Same vintage 911, if you want a clean one with no real drivability issues, $15K...STILL out of my league!

JvG

I have been looking at this post once in a while.... I drive a 4th generation my self....

I am about 60 years old. I have been doing almost all my own car repairs since I was 17 year old. So I can relate well to what your are experiencing, and can offer some advice.

First of all, how many miles has your car been driven?

I can tell you that it does take some money, and mostly a lot of time to get an old car to the point that it is reliable. Once that work is done, just drive and enjoy.

You mention engine hoists and "doing a rebuild". Were you thinking of rebuilding the engine? If so, you might be better off buying a more recent Maxima that has a problem...... then fixing that problem.

JvG

I am impressed that you are willing to learn how to work on cars at your age. There is a lot of learning to be done. You will be able to save yourself tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years by not paying mechanics and by driving older, reliable cars for a long time. You will not need to sign up for six years of car payment slavery like your friends will.

Consider your car a learning experience. What you learn is more valuable than the car itself.

Every used car has problems. Buying a car, then selling it only to buy another used car is a sure way to burn through your 3 grand. If your engine and transmission are sound, 3 grand should be more than you need to get the car into fine shape.

The last thing in the world you need to do now is to stress out an old car by turbocharging it. You can buy one of those later on in your life.

Good luck to you!!

MHM1

Thanks for the advice everybody. I went and got an opinion from a mechanic who was working on my Dad's 93 Celica GT Convertible, and he said that doing a rebuild wasn't worth it on that car. The car has 212k on it. I read in a corner of the internet that VG30E's don't need a full rebuild until twice that (500k). This made me feel better. I can believe it as well. The engine doesn't really have any issues other than the injectors. I pretty much have settled on painting the rear trunk, changing engine mounts, getting injectors cleaned, and changing the clutch master and slave cylinders aswell. That seems to be the choice that makes the most sense financially. I can show you guys some pictures if you want.

-Michael

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

always up for pictures

fail point on VG30 is usually the crank around 400,000-500,000km but some people have gotten them to a million km without a rebuild

JvG

You are making good, practical decisions.

Please change the timing belt, tensioner, maybe the waterpump. If anything seizes or breaks, bye bye timing belt, and your engine as well. That should be first.

You mentioned that you are replacing rubber parts. That is good. It would be a good idea to have your brakes looked at. While it is fun to go fast, it is also very important to be able to stop!

At 212k miles your car might be able to be driven for a few more years. It may be worth doing any differed maintance that the previous owner should have done.

Can you post some pictures?

MHM1

Sorry, no photos. I tried but the forum is having issues and says that the file upload failed every time. Too high a resolution?

Anyway, I will hopefully get around to the engine mounts, injectors and paint soon enough. I wonder if anyone on here would be interested in buying it? I live in Georgia.

JvG

Seems you are getting burned out with your car before you have had a chance to drive it. Try it, you might like it.

What kind of car are you thinking about getting?

seabob4

X2. Wish I had never got rid of my 1st one (bkrpt sort of causes that!), I know I WON'T get rid of the one I have now. Told Momma, if the engine ever craps out, I'll find a re-build and swap motors...

As far as posting pics, I use photobucket, works great on all forums. Re-size your pics down to 640 X 480, gives you a nice pic without having to scroll across the page to see the whole thing...

MHM1

Hey guys sorry about not responding for a while. School started picking up a little. :P

I have been doing to some thinking and stuff. (Uh oh) I am going to keep it for a while. It doesn't require emissions testing (In my state of Georgia at least) because it is at least 25 years old. Definite perks to a teenager. Insurance will be ungodly anyway so cut costs where I can.

I am going to be painting it panel by panel with an HVLP paint sprayer.
I just changed the front brake pads today (Don't worry. I put the magic goo on the shims) and noticed that the boot connecting from the rack to the tie rod was leaking power steering fluid. This makes sense as the steering sometimes hesitates and the out of nowhere kicks in while in the middle of the turn. (Scary at first but then you learn to clutch the steering wheel for dear life in the corners to compensate.)

Do I need power steering? I know 2nd gens weigh about 3000 lbs. Would it be a complete bear to steer without? If it is, can I just replace the boots or is it time for a whole new rack and pump.

Last question. What color should I paint it. My dad suggests pearl white but I denied that in stating that it is a color for old people cars. It has a brown interior with tan cloth seats. I was thinking blue. Not too dark as I don't want to bake my interior in the summer, but not baby blue.
What are your suggestions.

seabob4

Blue and brown? That's a funky combination.

I'd go with a dark brown metallic...

MHM1

New problem guys. I need new shocks. Its got the electronically controlled adjusting ones on it and the back right is leaking fluid. I really like the feature but am not finding any replacements for it. I figure if I can't find a replacement, I will go ahead and put non ECVSA performance suspension on.

Suggestions anyone? This is a weird problem since nobody sells or makes the ECVSA anymore.

Thanks, -Michael

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

i wouldnt run it without power steering. even if you can bypass the PS pump (dont think you can on VG30E), its impossible to turn in parking lots. im pretty strong and drove a car with the PS deleted once, its hard. you would have arms like Popeye in 2 weeks

struts theres nothing you can do besides maybe pay an arm and a leg to Nissan for ECVSA ones if they have them anymore, get good ones from a junkyard car, or maybe get the current ones rebuilt somehow

MHM1

Yeah I gave up on the adjustable ones. Will normal suspension just pop in or do I need to buy a conversion kit to switch?

Currently the car NEEDS new timing belt, power steering seals/pump ( I'm guessing at this point the whole steering system needs replacing.), various hoses need replacing, and I possibly need the injectors cleaned. Oh and engine mounts. I have the mounts I just need to get around to installing them. There's other stuff but that is major.

I've been driving on the old rotten tires it came with and the stock wheels. My dad decided to pitch in by buying me these for christmas.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...All&sort=Brand

Pretty sweet huh?

So where do I go next? The car is really growing on me and I now realize that it would be a great ride for the rest of high school and college. Its really fast for the way it looks and its a real blast to drive.

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

off the top of my head, normal suspension should be a direct swap. maybe wait for someone else who for sure knows

if your rack is bad, i think it sucks ***** to replace without a hoist

MHM1

Yeah I doubt I will do it myself. I have a friend who is awesome and is willing to let me go and use his hoist and everything if I want to. I doubt I will though as that is a huge job and I will probably just pay for my trusted mechanic to do it.

Looking at the suspension, I am guessing I can just use the old joints and put in new cartridges.

By the way, how low can you go using stock struts? I think I saw some lowering springs for the 2nd gen. Maybe it was for the 3rd gen. Will 3rd gen lowering springs work on 2nd? I just wanted to maybe lower it a couple of inches to compliment the new wheels I am getting.

So far the car is shaping up to be awesome. I am mocking up all the stuff I need for a stereo system in it. 90 RMS speakers at 2 ohms. I am planning on making the rear glass flex...

I saw a guy in Warner Robins GA who had a chrome 300ZX with a (I think) VG30DETT in it. He had a lot of aftermarket stuff on that engine. I thought it was cool. Oh and I should be able to post pics here soon.

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

i had KYB GR2 on my 3rd gen, rode on them for 2 or 3 years at stock height and then a year with the car slammed and when the car went to the junker they were still good, someone took them at the junker so theyre still going somewhere. i think 3rd gen springs work on 2nd gen, not fully sure

MHM1

Ok cool. So what your saying is lowering a car Is dependant on spring not shock. I have no knowledge on the whole lowering thing so. I don't want to slam it. Just lower it 2-3 inches.

Can you explain how lowering works and what you had to do it on your 3rd gen?

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

yep its to do with the spring. main difference is struts like Tokico and Koni are made to handle the abuse of lowering and whatnot, economy struts not so much. 2-3 inches is alot, i went 2.2 inches in the front and 2 inches in the rear and i was tucking stock wheels all around. slight lowering is Eibach springs, i think theyre a inch and a bit drop. the strut itself just controls spring oscillation, thats why cars bounce like mad when the struts are blown

you just do the same thing as changing struts. use a strut compressor, unbolt the strut loose, slowly loosen the spring compressor to get the old spring out, put the lowering spring in the compressor, put the strut back in, and bolt it up

its best to get a garage to do everything if you dont know how a spring compressor works, if the spring comes loose it has enough force to cut you open or kill you. ive changed many struts and dont understand how people have been stupid enough to have that happen, but it has

after lowering you need an alignment as well, after i slammed mine i never did out of laziness and my tires had crazy camber wear

MHM1

Yeah my Dad warned me about spring compressors from an early age. He went and rented a pair from autozone because he was changing his suspension and he compressed the springs. When I walked over to help him, I saw the springs, got scared, and walked away because I was like "nope too dangerous".

Anyway, I should probably pay more attention to the ruler on my desk.
I went and measured and a 2 inch drop is probably plenty. I just didn't want to be having to get a wheel arch roller and start having to tuck my wheels in because of the camber and lowerness (I think it's a word). That whole thing is just ridiculous. It looks fine in a showroom but those are probably nightmares to drive.

Thanks for the info. What your saying is I should probably go with Tokico or Koni and then buy some lowering springs? I wont be able to fully make a drop height estimate until the new wheels come this Christmas and get on the car.

Here are the pics of the car. I took the ugly window tint of the back windsheild. Makes it look 1000x better.

http://imgur.com/a/xfY5B

MHM1

Edit: Only some of the engine photo's got through. Sorry. I will upload the rest in a little while.

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

youre gonna have a hell of a time finding Koni or Tokico struts assuming 3rd gen ones will fit a 2nd gen, i called every supplier in North America in 2010 and none have either, theyre both discontinued. can only hope for a used set. i think KYB GR2 are the only half decent strut for lowering still around

rbinlex

My 87 is white 4 door without rear spoiler. Great looking car. Mine just now turned 109K, original miles. Everything works. I drive it every day. Added new CD deck, speakers, and little amp in the trunk for decent sound. My paint is getting a little thin and I am just now starting to get a couple of rust dings starting but the chassis is flawless. Simply awsome car. Wish mine was a 5 speed though... having the auto is only downside.

Found out the factory recall on the injectors had never been done... so got a fresh set installed by Nissan for free.

Just wanted to share.

thetorp

if you ever want to sell it I want to buy it. Just for the right price.

vernk

if you haven't already, call nissan and see if it should have the recall done on it could be whats causing you to think there are pluged injectors..... if it seems to flood it's self it will need to be taken care of....

ray_289

iTrader: (8)

I rarely come on the org anymore and your post caught my eye being that your 14. I was 13 when I first joined this forum 11 years ago when my dad passed his 87Max down to me.

Based off of your diagnostics your definitely ahead of the game for your age! My 87 had several issues along the lines of yours which I gradually fixed throughout Middle/Highschool. This is the perfect car for you to learn on and mess up which is exactly what I did with mine. The skills and experienced gained and errors made on my 87 were priceless to me, the learning never stopped. I later but a 985spd my senior year that needed some work, spent two months on it to get it perfect thanks to the tricks I learned on my second gen freshening it up under the hood and everywhere else wasnt an issue.

Get it to run good but dont blow too money on it, afterall it is an old car and doubt your in love with it. Not to mention the car has very little aftermarket support and I am sure you will want to do some mods! You can make your own cold air intake and replace the exhaust system with bigger piping, any exhaust shop can put something together for you and stick a magnaflow muffler or even a 5th gen muffler on the end. Slap some Sentra SpecV 17" 5spokes on it and itll sharp!

The chances of someone buying it for over 1k are somewhat slim considering you can get 4th gens for around 2k. Sellers will post these cars high but only a true maxima enthusiasts with $$ to blow will pay top dollar. These cars in general don't hold their value. I had a hardtime selling my one owner 5th gen for 4k !

I dont come on too often but if you do need any assistance feel free to PM/ email me I deal alot with aftermarket parts but Im sure i can share some knowledge when in need. Rpmakeoversllc@gmail.com

Best of luck!

MHM1

Wow you guys are a huge pool of info. I just want to say thanks for all of your help and I am really grateful for the knowledge I have learned.

Here's an update.

My birthday was a few days ago and I got some 17" Enkei performance EV5 Hyper Black color wheels as a present. They look AMAZING. I WILL POST PICTURES SOON!

However, I have bad news. The hydraulic clutch system went kaput while we were driving (with a date in the car no less!).

Called AAA and got it towed to my local shop and he stated that only the slave cylinder broke. So he only replaced the $30 slave cylinder and then bled the system. Repair cost $140!. Clutch works but feels completely numb and almost all action happens at the floor. First 5/6 of the pedal is just mush. First 1/2 is REALLY mush. Again it still works fine but it just makes me think that he should have replaced the master cylinder as well and/or he didn't bleed it right. There is also a weird clicking sound when you press as well. Can the pedal/master be adjusted?

Anyway, that happened. :I

I recently tried some insert into fuel tank injector cleaner. To my surprise, it fixed it right up!. Engine starts EVERY time without a hitch usually. Rain, cold, sun, or shine. So I am happy with that.

The AC compressor clutch is making a squeaky sound. I expected this as compressors die. It is the stock system and surprisngly still works: at least a little.

I am going to change the timing belt soon. Probably over Christmas break or something. I also still need to change the engine mounts. I also might replace stuff like the water pump and steering rack and pump. CV joints feel fine. Boots are solid. Would it be easier to change all of this stuff if I just hoisted the engine out?

Also, I think I need to change the idler pulley when I change the timing belt. Am I correct in saying this?

As far as struts go I think I will just replace them with whatever I can find that is new. I then will maybe get 3rd gen lowering springs. I'm am not turning it into a super sports car or anything. Currently I am just worried about replacing bad suspension. Engine mechanical first priority I guess.


Speaking of exhausts, mine is pretty crappy. Muffler is rusty. Oh well. What worries me is the I can hear the engine a little too well near the engine bay. I'm guessing downpipe could have a broken gasket or a hole or something. I am not entirely sure.

Another more cosmetic related idea I came up with is to have something called a raspberry pi control my audio and other stuff. Its basically a credit card sized computer. I tinker with computers and thought this would be awesome as the middle console of the maxima is perfectly sculpted for a touch screen.

In short, I really appreciate you guys and your consistency in replying and knowledge. It really does help. I love the car and it really is growing on me. I think I will just need advice on replacing maintenence parts in the near future. Sorry I haven't responded in a while.

--Michael