Hi!

My recently acquired 92 SE 5-speed seem to have a rather sluggish engine. It seems reluctant to rev. The engine just seem to take its time to go to higher rev, i.e. the rpm needle moves slowly and there seem to be a lag when I press the gas pedal. Feels like the engine has a lot of inertia. Makes it hard to blip the throttle when shifting, and especially to give it enought throttle to accelerate from standing still without it getting bogged down. At higher rev (over 3000) it seems to be OK. Also it doesn't feel as fast as it should be for a 190hp car that supposedly go 0-60 in 7.1 seconds. It seem to lack power below 3000. Idle is smooth, though.

I've tightened the throttle cable, but maybe it can be tightened further. But I wonder if there's anything else that might be the reason. I checked the air filter and it was pretty new and clean. Haven't check the throttle body yet to see if it's dirty. I don't think it's the injector. I used to have a 90 Maxima SE auto, so I know what it's like when the injectors went bad, The car would shake and the engine sounded different (kinda like "bebebebebe..." -like pulsating sound) I wonder though if the injectors are not dead completely but just not squirting enough fuel for acceleration. I've poured a bottle of Chevron fuel injector cleaner into the tank just in case.

Oh, which one is a good repair manual for the Maxima? Haynes or Chilton? I've asked the dealer about the factory repair manual, they wanted $130 for it!

 

common problem on the VE engine. do a search on "VE heat soak" or loss of power and you'll find plenty of reading material.


ummm, DON'T use the injector cleaners like that stuff.. they contain nasty chemicals that, while cleaning your injectors, also EAT your injectors. the injectors have brass in them, and the chemicals in that stuff are harsh enough to eat the brass.

don't mess with the throttle cable either. it's an engine/computer/sensor problem, not a throttle cable thing.

repair manual.. buy a nissan service manual, but don't buy it from the dealer... watch ebay and places like that. I picked one up for my 93 for about $50.

 

Thanks Matt!

I've done a search, and the heat soak problem do match my Maxima's symptom perfectly. Initially I didn't even realize it was heat-related! Then again I just got my car for a short time.

Anyway, to further discussion about this subject, I've done some rough intake air temperature measurement with my newfangled "intake air temperature gauge". It's a inside/outside digital thermometer thingy from Walmart or Target, I just shove the outside temperature probe into the opening of the air intake (behind the headlight.) The thing previously does duty as interior temperature monitor on my computer!

When I first started my car, the temp was 83 degrees F, which is the ambient temperature, I think. As I started to drive the car, the temp went down, and by the time I was cruising on the freeway it was hovered around 75 degrees or so. When I got to my place of work, I went around at slow speed (stop & go) looking for parking space, and that involved some idling. By the time I parked my car, the temp was registering close to 110 degrees! So there's a big difference there. Don't know if that kind of temperature difference is normally enough to make the engine to make so much less power, but the difference is there. Note that my temp gauge measures air near the front (opening) of the intake tube, not in the throttle body. Also, I wasn't looking for parking space for a long time, just about twice around the block. I suspect with longer slow/stop&go driving the temps can probably go way higher.

I wonder who's the genius that put the engine air intake opening behind the left headlight? I would think behind the grille would be a better choice. There's even a slot in our bumper that would be perfect for this sort of thing. I suspect that as it is, because the air from outside is kind of blocked by the headlight, when the car's stopped it started sucking hot air from inside the engine compartment, instead of from the outside. In my old car, a Mitsubishi Galant, the intake pipe goes into a metal barrier somewhere down the engine compartment, near the wheel well. So it's insulated from the engine compartment. I wonder if we can make a rubber hose or something that connect/extend the end of the intake tube to the grille. But I wonder if that'll reduce the grille area needed to cool the engine (radiator), and makes the engine overheat. Another way would be to extend the intake opening into the bottom of the car, though this might make it likely to suck water from a puddle or something.

 

yo, i have the same figgin' problem, it drives me nuts sometimes, wat r u gonna do about fixing the problem? (i have the same car as u, '92 VE 5spd)

 

Just buy a CAI (Cold Air Intake), it does the same thing you are talking about.

 

I have the same problem
I have a VE and when we have these 90 degree days i have no power but at night when its cooler my power comes back
Is a CAI the only way to solve this problem or is there something else
thanks

 

So, to those who has CAI, does it really eliminate this problem altogether?


Anyway, I looked at one of the CAI maker's installation instruction (the Warpspeed or something) and it scares me. It seems to involve cutting fenders with plasma cutter and stuff. Way beyond my self-installation ability! Getting a shop to put it on will likely be expensive too.

 

It's not that hard. They just use the plasma cutter because it's quick. You can do the same thing with a drill and a 3-1/2" hole saw (Home Depot $12). There is a pattern that shows you exactly where to cut the hole.

 

Agamemnon: does your vtc click yet? how many miles?

I posted about this bog under 3k rpm...1st gear, letting the engine pull itself just under 1k rpm, and then stomp on the gas, nothing happens...just slow as heck to pick up speed. this's horrible when take a right turn and trying to merge with traffic. I know what you mean about bliping the gas...I tend to stall a lot in my 93 se 5sp.

Jae

 

Yes, my VTC tick. The car has 146,000 miles on it, but the engine is reputedly has 93,000 miles. Yup, if I fail to blip in time, the acceleration is just horrible. Barely matched a loaded big rig's. If I managed to get the rpm up before releasing the clutch, though, it's OK. Still slow, but not that bad.

 

I had the same problem with my 92 and thought it was heat soak, as the problem did not develop until the engine warmed up. My theory lies in the timing. We know the engine has an inherent problem with the VTC's, in that they stop working, make noise, and ultimately fail to do their job, which revolves around automatic timing adjustment.

Roseken, a writer on the bbs, discovered that the problem was timing related. I think I recall him hypothesizing that once the engine went into open loop, is when the "sluggishness" began, not necessarily from a build up of heat. Still in disbelief that it would be timing, I turned my crank angle sensor slightly to the right and advanced the timing. The result was twofold, the terrible acceleration was gone! I took it out and romped around with it, as the car was fun again. An easy, five minute fix is all it took. n1. We had guys replace coils, try a new TPS, MAF, none of which fixed the problem.

I'd really like to see you turn the crank angle sensor just a little bit to the right and observe the effect. Let me know what you think. I'm almost sure your problem mirrored mine and revolves around retarded timing because of failed VTC's.



n1: Keep in mind I had the rewire done all along. I'm not sure the effect of advancing the timing manually on VTC's that partially work. I would only manually adjust after doing the rewire.

 

Thanks!

I might just try that!

 

I just went ahead and did it! I advanced my timing. I moved the assembly about 1mm clockwise. Of course I marked the original point first, so I can go back if something happen. I then took about 10 minutes test-drive. So far so good! It seems to run noticeably better. Revs more easily and smoothly. Seem to have more power too! The slight hesitation that it used to have when accelerating (i.e. the rpm seem to not move smoothly up but has this tiny hesitation) is gone.

But it needs longer drive to really tell if the 'heat soak' problem is really gone. Today unfortunately it's not as hot here as the previous few days, though it's very humid. I'll take it for a long drive tomorrow and see if I run into any problem.

Thanks for the advice, Bryan91SE!

 

Great! I was extremely modest when adjusting the timing also, only moving it slightly. I didn't have a timing light available. I will hone it it more closely when I get the chance, it may even run better at that point. I may have gone a little more than a mm though.

 

Guys when you adjust the timing you should first unplug the TPS and rev the engine over 3k rpm 3 times to lock in base timing mode. Make sure the idle is around 700-800rpm too. But if the other way works then its all good

 

My VG's FSM indicates this is not necessary.

How about anyone with a VE?

According to Craig's site, which gives a thorough explanation on how to adjust the timing, does not mention anything about unplugging a TPS sensor. I'm pretty sure he based that procedure off the VE FSM too.

Here's Craig's direct link: http://www.geocities.com/craigbraceg...ng/timing.html

 

Uh oh...

What's this "lock in base timing mode" thingy? Can you explain it further? Don't keep us in the dark! Don't be shy now! Spill it out! Puhleeezeee?

Anyway, I just did it following the instruction in Craig's site.

 

Yeap, you have to unplug the TPS in order to get an accurate reading from the light. I tried to check the timing without unplugging the TPS and it read about 60 degrees. Then, I raced the engine,.. it read 30 degrees. Then, I raced the engine... it read -40 degrees. So, nothing is right. Make sure you do it the way Nismo brought out. Any repair manual will say this for the VE.

 

Like was said before, I have done a lot of research into this problem and I fully believe it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with any sort of "heat soak". These cars were fine when they were built, why would heat affect them so much now?! Whoever came up with that idea should be a televangelist since they have everybody following them now

Anyway, the VE engine has a lot of sensors on it, and even though these sensor rarely outright fail, they do loose their effectiveness over time. As long as all your ignition coils are fine, and your Mass Airflow sensor checks out, I suggest the following: replace your spark plug with OEM NGK plats ($75 or so), replace your O2 sensor ($120) and replace your knock sensor ($130+installation- this one's a bit harder to install). You might also want to replace your Throttle Position Sensor (TPS), that's only about $45. One more thing- your coolant temp sensor, either clean it out good or replace it ($25?). Clean the connections too. Do them one at a time, I have replaced all except my knock sensor, which I plan on doing very soon.

I have brand new VTC's, no ticking, and most everything has been replaced except my coils and MAF. I still had the sluggishness after replacing my VTCs and O2 sensor, so I decided to try advancing the timing to test my theory. Instantly more power, even when warm, but it's nowhere near what it should be. So I believe the knock sensor, even though it tests fine (per the FSM), is being lazy in its old age (I have 130K) and I plan on replacing it as soon as I get the time/money.

 

Yeah, I have tested most of my sensors the way the FSM tells me too. They check out great. Hopefully, soon I will be able to run a Consult test. And I think this might be able to tell me when exactly the timing is being pulled back. I think it will do an active test. Rosenken, have you done this?

But the thing is, is that not every VE is having this problem. I have talked to some that run low 16's when warm and low low 16's when cool. So, it's a subtle difference. The kinda of lack in power I am having is like 8 tenths slower. So, what ever is wrong, it's not showing up in the continuity and voltage tests per FSM.

 

same problem on 92 se only thing is that even when its hot out on the first drive of the day it runs great but you could turn the car off and a second later turn it back on and the powers gone wierd and it does seem to run better more consistantly when cold out but not 100% of the time

 

ambient temperature has little to do with it.

Yes, not all VE's have it because it depends on the condition of the VTC's.

 

No it doesn't. Not totally. I replaced my VTC's with brand new ones, along with a brand new oxygen sensor, and it didn't seem to help. My top end jumped up a LOT. Bad VTCs = sloppy VTCs, and when you're running at 6000rpm the cam timing will be off a bit enough to reduce power.

The low end problem lies with sensors that are going bad. Unfortunately it's very difficult to diagnose which ones are going bad. You best bets are oxygen sensor and knock sensor. Your coolant temp sensor should be checked for corrosion, as well as the VTC solenoid connectors and the knock sensor connector. These cars are fussy and when they are 10 years old, things don't work as they once did, and the car loses power.

 

In my case, I disagree. I've heard of a few others where re-adjusting the timing fixed the problem completely in the lower rpm range. Same case with mine. I don't think the electrical items are as sensitive as you think they are. But that's my opinion only. It looks like you may have a different case though.

 

Was your timing at the stock setting before you readjusted, and did you advance it higher? Mine was at the stock setting when I checked it and there was a big lag. I bumped it up 3-4 degrees and it took away a lot of the lag. The problem is that there was lag at the stock setting. Advancing the timing is a Band-aid solution to fix the problem. I think it's the knock sensor.

 

Well, I'll tell you, I went about it a little "sloppy." I did not check the base timing before bumping it up slightly. I don't know where it was. At the time I did not live in the same city as the 92 SE and only wanted to experiment quickly while I was in town.


If it is the knock sensor, wouldn't the sensor still lower the timing if it malfunctioned no matter where it was manually set? I have a hard time believing that given the commonality of this problem, that so many knock sensors would have gone afoul. I've never heard of one malfunction on a VG. However, I give you deference, as you're the one who discovered the timing solution and have been more active with the problem. Let me know if the new knock sensor changes things. Are you going to replace it soon? I know on the VQ, it looks possible to change it without taking the intake manifold off, I've never analyzed it on the VE, or for that matter on the VG.

 

all kinds of good stuff is this thread...just cant wait for the fl weather to get colder and dryer so i can experiment and run more 15.9s...hehe

 

Knock sensors are like people, when they get old, they get tired, don't respond as quickly, and can't hear as well

They wear out over time. Same with oxygen sensors. They have a very sensitive piezo 'microphone' enclosed in them that listens very carefully for the first signs of engine pinging, before you can even hear it. They have a tough job to do, and they wear out over time. They are a regular maintenance item and need to be replaced every so often. Heck, even Nissan and some warranty companies claim the VTC's are 'regular maintenance' and won't replace them. Crazy eh? I'll be replacing mine in a couple weeks right after I pay off the car. I'd do it sooner but I don't really have an annoying amount of hesitation. It's there a bit, but I can floor it in 2nd gear going around a sharp bend and it'll chirp the tires for half a second. Sometimes, it lugs in 1st gear though. I'll post whenever I get it in, and yes, I do plan on taking the manifold off and reusing the expensive metal gaskets (I replaced them a few months ago when I took off the heads and did the VTCs anyway)

 

I have been talking to the Nissan Dealership Tech dude and he said that the VTCs are considered "maintenance". So, the warranty company I have will not cover the repair. Doesn't that suck?

I have checked the knock sensor and the harness connector and there were no problems. Can this still mean that my sensor is sending the wrong signal and retarding the timing? If I don't find the solution to my problem soon, I will have to find another car... but I will hang on to this one as long as I can. I am tired of mid 16 second cars being able to hang with me.

 

ROSENKEN. did you change that knock sensor? if so did it make a noticable difference in power? and did you check the resistance on the sensor before you replaced it?

 

Knock sensor. I guess that if that starts to get old, it would not be as senstive and not back out the timing as it should. And if anything, you would start to hear some pinging. But IMHO, I have NEVER heard my car ping once. Maybe worn knock sensors get MORE senstive? Someone shed some light. I don't know the inner workings of a piezoelectric sensors.

I've been doing some minor work on my car and have noticed the VE lowend suffers when the following happens:
1) Vacuum leaks. Everytime I had one, the idle will slightly erratic and the lowend wasn't as crisp.
2) Exhaust leaks. I always have to battle flex section leaks and recently had a crack in my Cattman Y fixed. When I've had exhaust leaks this close to the motor, the low end suffered.
3) Tune up. Plugs, fuel filter, pcv valve. Mileage and low end improved a bit. Had about 60k on everything before replacement.
4) EGR malfunction will also hurt lowend. Expecially if it's stuck(open is worse than closed I "think".)
5) I had a crack in my pcv valve rubber hose. That might lead to some performanc loss also.

Don't know about the 02 sensor but someone already mentioned replacing theirs didn't do anything. I have 140+k on mine and should probably replace it as a matter of course. I'll chime in when it's done.

 

I just changed the timing belt/water pump on mine because of the bad miss at idel and the very noticable power loss.(and an inch of the mark with a timing light) This helped alot but it still has power loss and a miss at idel. So I advanced the timing and it did nothing almost. I have a little more power but not much, and still a miss at idel so I dont know what else to try other than the o2 sensor (by the way does anybody know the voltage reading on that so I can test it.) With the new timing belt and the advanced timing I still have this problem as I see many others have as well. I'm also under the impression that my car (91 ve 5sp)doesn't have vtc's, or a knock sensor so I don't know wtf is going on here. Oh yah I'm also getting horrible gas milage like 14.

 

That's b/c you don't have VTCs. You are right. Only the 92-94 Maxima SE's have the VE30DE, which has VTCs. You have a 91 SE with the VG30E motor.

 

Yes, I was fairly sure but then why am I having the same problems, I've driven a few 91's and all had a hell of alot more power. The timing is on the money, and ALL the ignigion is brand new oem, and everything I can think of besides the o2 I've done so what gives?

 

Aaron92SE--

Pull out your owner's manual and find the maintenance schedule for VTC replacement, is it every 30 or 60K miles? Unfortunately, it seems Mr. Tech dude is feeding you a big buffalo chip.

--SAM

 

Nope, not yet. Just paid off my car, now I can start to have some extra money to do these things. I also have to do a clutch and wheel bearings soon. Knock sensor is on the back burner since it doesn't disable the car when it's bad.

 

yes, good point. I just grounded my VTCs because it was free, and my car noise was fixed...one of those low budget jobs.. =)

 

No, he's right. And of course it's not maintenance considered as being every 30K or 60K. It's like the replacement of a catalytic converter. That is consider maintenance when it comes to warranty companies. So, the VTCs failing, is not the same as a water pump failing. According to Nissan, warranties will not cover VTCs b/c they have labeled it as maintenance. They just don't want to fix anything.

 

Jeff, why did you edit my previous post.

"That's b/c you don't have VTCs. You are right. Only the 92-94 Maxima SE's have the VE30DE, which has VTCs. You have a 91 SE with the VG30E motor."

Did I say something wrong?

 

Aaron, change that sig. If I have to keep editing your posts to get sig out, I'll just start deleting them. Thanks.