Mmm big rear brakes.. :)
Mmm big rear brakes.. :)
As many of you guys know about my wilwood kit and the problems I've been having with a HUGE front brake bias problem, I finally got around to fixing it last weekend.
I did a few calculations and figured that with the larger pistons in the front calipers and the larger rotors, there is now over 3 times the braking torque on the front brakes as there was before the change. That obviously means my front brakes way overpower the rears.
Soooo, instead of the stock brake bias of about 70% ft, and 30% rr, I now had about 90% ft and 10% rear..
I knew this was a problem the whole time I had the kit on, as I was going through rotors on the front almost as fast as I was going through oil. I've about worn out my SECOND set of front rotors since this time last year. Not good at $300+ /set.
Anyway, so I set out my quest on increasing rear brake bias.. First step was to figure out what rotors would fit under my wheels. Even though these are 16" wheels, there is very little room, due to the 3-piece design on the rims. the bolts that hold everything together are right where I need room for a caliper. DOH!
I did some searching around in hundreds of websites and many brake parts catalogs and blah blah blah.
Seemed the best solution I could have came straight from Nissan already- on the first Gen (84-89) 300ZX. lucky me!
The rotor thickness and offset were identical to Maxima rotors, except they were an inch larger in diameter. Problem solved.
Now to get them mounted. As you can see, the mounting brackets on my car already had two sets of holes. This was from when I pioneered the rear disc conversion on my old GXE. When I totalled it, I simply swapped the rear suspension over to this car to save from having to tear down both sets of springs&struts to swap the Tokico/Eibach combo. Reason there's two sets of holes is that when I purchased the parts, the junkyard gave me calipers off of a different year Maxima than I got the rear struts and brackets. The struts and brackets were off of a 94SE, and the calipers were from a pre-90 SE model. They changed some dimensions of the caliper on the 91+ models to make the bolts easier to reach on the calipers for maintenance. (if any of you pre-90 guys have removed a rear caliper, you know what I'm talking about).
Sooo, when I bolted up the original rear disc conversion system on the old max, the calipers stuck way out past the rotors because of the design change. My fix then was simply to drill two new holes in the bracket so that I can get the car back together and have rear brakes without having to order MORE parts and wait another 2-3 weeks to finish. blah blah blah
So, for the last YEAR, I've been dreading having to repeat the bracket fittment hassle I'd had on the rear disc conversion.. I finally got my garage cleaned out enough to get to my drill press useable again, so I figured I'd start and see where I had to go. I had some spare pieces of metal and the tools to make a copy of the bracket available, and the time to do it. blah blha lbah.
So I pull everything apart and THEN remember I had to drill another set of holes in the bracket. *Hmmmmm... wonder if that will fit?*
So I stick the new rotors on and bolt the caliper to the old holes in the bracket, and VOILA! the pads only overhang about 1mm at the most, which is less than 1% of the pad area. Good enough for me!
So that's pretty much it. rear disc upgrade on my car in less than 2 hours!
As for driving impressions, there was an IMMEDIATE difference in braking. the car feels much more balanced now, and I can brake much later going into corners and stuff.. It's almost impossible to lock the brakes up, but if I really try it's doable. by that time, you're about to bend the steering wheel over from pushing so hard on it. 100-0 braking distance has significantly decreased... When I stomp on the brakes, the car almost immediately comes to a halt with no drifting or front-end lockup that I had before. Brakes are simply amazing now.
It's actually fun driving the car again!
A 4-5pt harness will be my next mod to the car, as soon as I finish putting the Z seats back in. Hmmmm, I think I may tackle that today even! ;-)
I'll quit rambling now and show you kids the pics.
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear1.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear2.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear3.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear4.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear5.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear6.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear7.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear8.jpg
I did a few calculations and figured that with the larger pistons in the front calipers and the larger rotors, there is now over 3 times the braking torque on the front brakes as there was before the change. That obviously means my front brakes way overpower the rears.
Soooo, instead of the stock brake bias of about 70% ft, and 30% rr, I now had about 90% ft and 10% rear..
I knew this was a problem the whole time I had the kit on, as I was going through rotors on the front almost as fast as I was going through oil. I've about worn out my SECOND set of front rotors since this time last year. Not good at $300+ /set.
Anyway, so I set out my quest on increasing rear brake bias.. First step was to figure out what rotors would fit under my wheels. Even though these are 16" wheels, there is very little room, due to the 3-piece design on the rims. the bolts that hold everything together are right where I need room for a caliper. DOH!
I did some searching around in hundreds of websites and many brake parts catalogs and blah blah blah.
Seemed the best solution I could have came straight from Nissan already- on the first Gen (84-89) 300ZX. lucky me!
The rotor thickness and offset were identical to Maxima rotors, except they were an inch larger in diameter. Problem solved.
Now to get them mounted. As you can see, the mounting brackets on my car already had two sets of holes. This was from when I pioneered the rear disc conversion on my old GXE. When I totalled it, I simply swapped the rear suspension over to this car to save from having to tear down both sets of springs&struts to swap the Tokico/Eibach combo. Reason there's two sets of holes is that when I purchased the parts, the junkyard gave me calipers off of a different year Maxima than I got the rear struts and brackets. The struts and brackets were off of a 94SE, and the calipers were from a pre-90 SE model. They changed some dimensions of the caliper on the 91+ models to make the bolts easier to reach on the calipers for maintenance. (if any of you pre-90 guys have removed a rear caliper, you know what I'm talking about).
Sooo, when I bolted up the original rear disc conversion system on the old max, the calipers stuck way out past the rotors because of the design change. My fix then was simply to drill two new holes in the bracket so that I can get the car back together and have rear brakes without having to order MORE parts and wait another 2-3 weeks to finish. blah blah blah
So, for the last YEAR, I've been dreading having to repeat the bracket fittment hassle I'd had on the rear disc conversion.. I finally got my garage cleaned out enough to get to my drill press useable again, so I figured I'd start and see where I had to go. I had some spare pieces of metal and the tools to make a copy of the bracket available, and the time to do it. blah blha lbah.
So I pull everything apart and THEN remember I had to drill another set of holes in the bracket. *Hmmmmm... wonder if that will fit?*
So I stick the new rotors on and bolt the caliper to the old holes in the bracket, and VOILA! the pads only overhang about 1mm at the most, which is less than 1% of the pad area. Good enough for me!
So that's pretty much it. rear disc upgrade on my car in less than 2 hours!
As for driving impressions, there was an IMMEDIATE difference in braking. the car feels much more balanced now, and I can brake much later going into corners and stuff.. It's almost impossible to lock the brakes up, but if I really try it's doable. by that time, you're about to bend the steering wheel over from pushing so hard on it. 100-0 braking distance has significantly decreased... When I stomp on the brakes, the car almost immediately comes to a halt with no drifting or front-end lockup that I had before. Brakes are simply amazing now.
It's actually fun driving the car again!
A 4-5pt harness will be my next mod to the car, as soon as I finish putting the Z seats back in. Hmmmm, I think I may tackle that today even! ;-)
I'll quit rambling now and show you kids the pics.
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear1.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear2.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear3.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear4.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear5.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear6.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear7.jpg
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~mblehm/pic...akes/rear8.jpg
Do you have a REAL reason to heckle me? no.
IS this information useful for 3rd gens and others? Yes. Thus I posted it in the general forum for the people who don't come here.
Pervis, I never said I was the FIRST. I also didn't use custom made brackets as he did. Mike Kent made his own brackets. I used parts from several different cars that I had access to and made it work without building any custom stuff. Keeps costs and time down.
IS this information useful for 3rd gens and others? Yes. Thus I posted it in the general forum for the people who don't come here.
Pervis, I never said I was the FIRST. I also didn't use custom made brackets as he did. Mike Kent made his own brackets. I used parts from several different cars that I had access to and made it work without building any custom stuff. Keeps costs and time down.
Originally posted by Matt93SE
Do you have a REAL reason to heckle me? no.
IS this information useful for 3rd gens and others? Yes. Thus I posted it in the general forum for the people who don't come here.
Do you have a REAL reason to heckle me? no.
IS this information useful for 3rd gens and others? Yes. Thus I posted it in the general forum for the people who don't come here.
Mario, the Q rear brakes are about the same size as the Z31 rotors, except the offset is huge- 64mm, compared to 45mm for Max rotors.. No way they would bolt onto the rear end without rubbing against the strut housing.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 382
i kind of figured that the off set would probably be off. Oh well great work non the less.
M
M
Originally posted by Matt93SE
Mario, the Q rear brakes are about the same size as the Z31 rotors, except the offset is huge- 64mm, compared to 45mm for Max rotors.. No way they would bolt onto the rear end without rubbing against the strut housing.
Mario, the Q rear brakes are about the same size as the Z31 rotors, except the offset is huge- 64mm, compared to 45mm for Max rotors.. No way they would bolt onto the rear end without rubbing against the strut housing.
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 611
Attn; Matt
Matt,
I know how busy you are, but was wondering if you had any more info on the selections of calipers, etc. brake parts that you were considering for your rear brake upgrade. My buddy got a 91 NA 300ZX this weekend. I was looking at the rear brakes. The configuartion is completely different than the 3G Max, with a flat circular surface like the size of the bottom of a cup or glass connected to a mass similar in shape to the rear caliper of the 3G Max. I am basically wondering if you know, or have the info about the dimensions of the Z32 rear caliper and whether or not it would fit on the 3G Max with the 16" 98+ SE rims.
I know how busy you are, but was wondering if you had any more info on the selections of calipers, etc. brake parts that you were considering for your rear brake upgrade. My buddy got a 91 NA 300ZX this weekend. I was looking at the rear brakes. The configuartion is completely different than the 3G Max, with a flat circular surface like the size of the bottom of a cup or glass connected to a mass similar in shape to the rear caliper of the 3G Max. I am basically wondering if you know, or have the info about the dimensions of the Z32 rear caliper and whether or not it would fit on the 3G Max with the 16" 98+ SE rims.
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