OK, just curious, but is the VE motor used in any other Nissan other than the 92 and 93 Maxima SE? I mean come on, isnt that kinda silly to desing a motor to be used on half a car line for only 2 model years?!

Damon

 

92 to 94 max se thats it

 

Nope.. Nissan only used them in the92-94 SE Maximas..

it was designed as a compact version of the VG30DE used in the 300ZX.. nissan did that in order to keep up with some of the other cars out there that were coming out with more power, so they had to keep up and add power to the VG30E..

they did this as an interim measure while they were developing the VQ30DE for the 95+ Maximas. so yeah, just 3 model years in only the Maximas. crazy, eh?

 

not a bad interim measure if i must say so

 

It came in only the best. Besides, that engine is well designed and costs more to make than the VQ.

 

I still have plans for a VE Go Cart

 

..............

 

if you build that im comming to visit

 

that's kind of what i was going to do. i wanted to make a vg powered dune buggy.

 

What about overseas? Was it used in the Cefiro? I'm wondering If an after market following can be found in Japan, or maybe the U.K.

Any thoughts?

 

Mark, you sure the VG has enough torque to be used in a dune buggy? I was thinking about that with the VE, but I think I'd need a Small Block Mopar to really have some fun with a buggy.

I would already have tired to build a go cart, but I dont know enough about steering, and it would be nice to have some sort of suspension, lol.

Fugi- The New Zealand guys have VE's too, and Subs1000w/NJ34Z have JDM VE's

 

ill have to get you some pics of the steering on the go kart i biult im sure youll get a good laugh or two

 

We get a lot of jap imports down here in NZ and the only car i know that has the VE is the 89-94 max... im not sure when they started using the VE in japan but i remember seeing the VE engined maxima in an article in a local car magazine.

i love my engine

 

And some 91 SE's we know of ....

 

The VE is definately not a compact version of the VG, nor is it an interim measure. It was a design prototype, seeing what all materials and valve timing/distributor-less ideas that were floating around would work.

If you get some VE and VQ parts side by side, i think alot of you would be surprised : )

 

how do you know? (not trying to be an *** just curious)

 

yea i read about that somewhere; all about how the VE brought in new technology still used in the VQs to today - variable timing system, coil on plug direct ignition system

i know the VE and VQ have the same injectors

 

really?
I've got a stack of tech papers from Nissan that state otherwise.




The technology you mention has been in Nissan's engines for years- in the VH45DE (Q45 engine)
VG30DE & VG30DETT (300zx obviously)
some other engines such as SR20 and I'm sure others also have been using this technology for a while before it came out on the VE.

Now, if you'll look at the innards of the VE30DE and VG30DE, you'll notice a few similarities there too... con rods, cams, pistons, and many other parts of the VG30DE can be used in the VE.
the ECU from the NA 300XZ can be used on the VE with only minor modifications (the VG30DE used dual O2 sensors, a fuel temp sensor, and a couple other small sensors on the engine in addition to the stuff the VE had.)


ALL of the other ECU components needed in the VE are already there, pin for pin on the inputs/outputs, except the lack of the power valve actuator signal for the manny tranny VE30DE.

ALL of the NVCS, ECCS, and NDIS systems employed on the VE were already engineered on the VG30DE in a car that went into production two years earlier.

NONE of the ECUs out there for the VQ will work with a VG or VE. the firing order on the cylinders is different, NVCS is non-existant in the VQ...



Shall I start comparing VG, VE, and VQ parts?
I'll give you the simple specs to start:

VG30DE:
Bore: 87mm
Stroke: 83mm
Total Displacement: 2960cc

VE30DE:
Bore: 87mm
stroke: 83mm
Total displacement: 2690cc

VQ30DE:
Bore: 93mm
stroke:73.3mm
total displacement: 2988cc
Firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4

The pistons in the VQ are 30% lighter, connecting rods are 25% lighter, the crank was redesigned with 7 reciprocating counterweights (instead of 6), yet it's 17% lighter. crank journal diameters are considerably smaller, due to a different twist-forging process on the crank that allows it to be stronger, yet smaller diameter.

I could go on........

 

 

I agree, but the VE is 2960cc

 

what the ...

I never noticed the VQ firing order before, looks like the y-pipe turbo design is probably be best for them, wouldn't you think?

Also I haven't cracked open a VQ, and dont feel like opening the FSM, but doesn't the VQ use a single chain instead of 3? I know the VQ's water pump is driven by the chain instead of by a belt like ours.

 

According to the factory service manual at the dealership, the firing order of a 95' VQ30DE is 1-2-3-4-5-6.

And all my information about the VE being a prototype, or test bed sort of engine, is a lot easier to swallow than Nissan building it for only 3 years and saying its a compact version of a VG. Easier to swallow, as well, because it came from a Nissan *ENGINEER* at the Marietta training center outside Atlanta, whom i personally questioned at length about the engine and VTCs as mine were failing when i pulled up.

It doesn't make sense to build an engine for so short a period unless its serving a greater purpose; evidenced by Nissans' using the other engines for decades at a time with only minor technical updates. Hell, the KA24DE is just a cleaned up L-series block.

As you pointed out, lots of other cars had some of the same "new" features as the VE. But not one engine at the time (save for the VH45DE in the 1st gen Q45, which had even crazier goodies like sodium filled valves) had *all* of these systems. EGR, coil-on-plug, variable valve timing with a timing chain rather than a belt (previously a honda technology), and serveral other goodies i'm too late for work to belch out.

I'm also well aware of the ECU interchangability, as my car is heading to Ash of Z1 for ECU tuning as soon as i can sort out another daily. Ash also chipped and tuned my VG30DETT to stage 4+ goodness, and we have discussed his Zemulator and the VE at length (not to mentuon other projects a little more pertinant to modern Nissans).

This is what they teach the "Factory Trained Technicians" they advertise on all the "do your oil change" commercials. And i like to think its more accurate than what looks like a either poorly translated or horribly written "tech papers from Nissan."

 

Quoted technical papers from Nissan > than "talking to an engineer." Your theories may or may not be easier for you to swallow, but that does nothing to discredit the paperwork previously presented.

 

Hmm, the tech papers I quoted were presented to the SAE By the designers of the engines- not someone that comes along 10 years later and tries to talk about stuff they don't understand.

Ya know, it's not really worth arguing too much here, but I think it's pretty obvious that the VE is more similar to the VG than the VQ. WAY more similar.
the VQ was the VG completely redesigned, improved, and overhauled. Too bad they couldn't give it decent high end power (due to lack of variable intake runners and NCVS mainly- both of which were employed on the VE).

Were previous engines used as test-beds and basis for the VQ? sure! why redesign the wheel?! Was the VE a "prototype specifically for the VQ" as you're stating? No. Nothing of the sort. They hardly employed half of the stuff on the VQ that they used on the VE.

Ah well. take it as you will. some people will never believe what either of us say, so I'm not going to argue with you any more.

 

VQ firing order is off

git teh fuq ouTTTTT

it's 1-2-3-4-5-6 not 1-5-3-6-2-4 per 1995, 1996, and 1997 FSMs.

So my turbo question doesn't matter anymore.

 

hmm, you're right. that's what the FSM says, but the tech paper I have from when they presented the deisgn of the VQ to SAE, it's for the 153624. weird. guess they changed the ECU around a bit before the final version. it was presented in march of 94.. guess they had a short time to change things.

 

that seemed weird to me also. it seems most of nissan's engines fire in order from 1 to 6 so it would be kind of weird that they would change it for the vq.

vg has plenty of torque, especially when turbo charged

i wonder if you could get the vg30de into the maxima if it had a different intake manifold... the vg30det looked like it would fit pretty dang well when i was looking at it. the vg30de(tt)'s intake manifold is just too dang big which i bet is the whole reason it wouldn't fit. guess i'll have to find one laying around to test.

 

the VG30DE won't fit into the Maxima at all. that's why nissan designed the VE- because they couldn't fit the VG30DE under the hood, or between the firewall and radiator.

 

And the crank, and the cams


just playing, I know you already knew that, lol.

Hey Matt.... If you stickied all of that a few years ago, we wouldnt have a billion of the same threads all created 2-4 weeks from each other asking about the engines

 

I found that out since I have a vg30de ECU and MAFS in my car along with a Zemulator and Wideband o2 sensor. I still have tuning issues and I might have to just wait for Ash to make the Zemulator work in the VE ECU. Which will come in due time.

 

I didn't bring it up as an arguing point, far from the sort. We both have perfectly valid points, with equally valid "proof" or speculation. Mine comes from 2 someones with 30+ years of experience in Nissan/Datsun alone, yours seems to come from documents provided by Nissan about the engine. I just prefer mine more for the sources it came from, as well as the "why would Nissan only make an engine for 3 years when *all* of its other engines have seen FAR, FAR longer lifespans; even the far more flawed ones" argument.

No reason we can't both be 50% right : )

<---- Willing to accept a compromise : )

Arguing about it is silly. But your documents *were* wrong about firing orders : )

 

*saves pic for future "Can I put a VG30DETT in my Maxima" posts*

 

that's just weird. that vg30det that my friend bought looked like it could fit in there. i'm still kicking myself for not trying to see if it would.

oh well... it would suck to mess with one of those things anyways because i'd have to get the earlier vg30de wiring harness and ecu since they rarely come with one and get it programmed by jwt or program it myself with the zemulator. (but the 255 hp and 255 ft lb of torque would be nice )

(now that i think of it, i should have said vg30det instead of vg30de due to the manifold design)

here's are some comparison pictures of the various engines.

VG30DET (left) vs VG30DETT (right)


VG30ET (left) vs VG30DET (right) (sorry for the crappy picture)

 

by the red X

 

Check your computer, I see no red x and I looked at this thread before you posted.

 

yeah, might check something out because they shouldn't be red x's.

 

Still seeing red
I even tryed to paste the address straight into explorer, still no go

 

this work? http://www.nissanx.net/gall/album44?page=2

vg30dett http://www.nissanx.net/gall/album44/vg30dett

vg30det http://www.nissanx.net/gall/album44/VG30DET6

vg30e and vg30det side by side http://www.nissanx.net/gall/album44/Both_Engines

 

the original works for me.

 

Nope, boy is that wierd