CyMax

iTrader: (5)

Hey all, As promised in a previous thread, I contacted WWW.Outlawengineering.com and asked them about pheno spacers for the VE. They responded saying that they had looked at the Max but it had "the intake manifold gasket imbeded in a plastic carrier that acted as it's own phenolic spacer". Really??? To be fair he did say " I think we looked at the Max" and "if I remember..."

I know for a fact these guys will make one if there is demand, reasonable prices great quality, just somebody ( HEY YOU GURU'S!!!!!! ) let me know if what the dude said is true, does the carrier act as a spacer?????

Danke All!!!

subs1000w

the problem is moddifying all the rear mounting brakets, EGR pipe, rear coil packs, IAC hose to fit once the intake manifold is raised higher. it has been done but it will take work

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

yeah, what he said.
and no, the factory gaskets are not phenolic. they're a full metal, ribbed gasket, IIRC... Either that or they're a paper one. forget now...

Wiking

Does not matter: ...all engine heated coolant is pumped into the lower intake.

Sehr gut?

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

VG reference..
lower IM to heads = metal
upper intake plate - collector (not upper IM) to lower IM = thin metal
everything else paper

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

the VE is almost identical on the gaskets to the VG....

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

upper also

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

just wanted to cover my **** just in case there was a difference.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

yup yup..

I think I've seen both paper and thin metal gaskets on the upper.. I can't remember what the last one was.. I think paper.. but I also remember seeing an aluminum one as well on a VE. hmmm. :shrug:

Wiking

All pumped coolant goes into lower intake, via oval side channels (4.). All pumped coolant goes out of lower intake end (6.) to be routed either directly back to pump input (9.), or via radiator (8.)back to pump input.




How about painting the intake air channel walls with ceramic insulator?

Upper intake takes heat in via conductance, theres no coolant routes. Some insulation THERE might be good? (Of course TB has small heater routing.).

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

VG reference again...
might be no actual channels...but there is a pocket on the upper right hand side that bleeds the coolant air out.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

heads to lower IM - metal
lower IM to collector - metal
collector to upper IM - (was paper) metal
upper IM to TB - paper
TB to intake elbow - paper

again...VG motor

Wiking

Abs so, I forgot THAT; it conducts heat into the corner.

VGE only: Nobody gave me VE - or pics to go pHoto shopping...

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

the VG upper manifold has coolant in it in a few places.. I've dribbled it all over the engine several times when removing the manifold for cleaning/maintenance.

the VE does not have any coolant flowing through the upper manifold. solid aluminum.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

How do you modify the EGR tube? It's a pain to connect when it's stock!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

i.e. use whatever force necessary to bend tube until it fits.
either that or cut and weld a small extension on it. neither one is much fun.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

i can definitely vouch for that...good luck bending that SS tube.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Gaskets from Nissan? Even though I just helped with it, I cant remember the VG's lol. I think they were both metal (only lower to collector and collector to upper).
The VG doesn't have any coolant coming threw it from the lower intake manifold/collector though. Again I wasn't really looking but isn't the only place where coolant is the IACV?


The trick to installing the EGR tube is to install the tube then bolt down the EGR. If Pat would ever follow through I was just going to go find a bolt or cap with the same threading and use that, or just modify my spare tube.

subs1000w

WORD on the EGR tube being a biatch to attach if you go through the trouble to make a spacer you mine as well just eliminate it

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Ok, here are the facts for the VE motor IM gaskets:

TB to Upper Plenum = paper
Upper Plenum to Lower IM = paper (that's all I've ever seen)
Lower IM to heads = Metal frame with rubber seals built in (about 1/16" thick)

I've made a TB spacer and an upper IM spacer (between upper and lower IM). The TB was easy to do if you are 1/4" or less. Otherwise, you will need a very easy to make throttle cable extension plate. The other spacer will require slightly longer bolts. The rear brackets will need to be removed or you will need to make an extension for them. The EGR will have to be removed or you will have to extend the tube. It MIGHT be possible to bend the tube and make it fit, but I highly doubt that will work. That pipe is STRONG and very hard to bend.

I am going to make a Lower IM spacer within the next 6 months. I don't think I will run into any problems. I am not sure if the studs on the heads are long enough. We'll see.

But, if outlaw engineering somehow made an Upper IM spacer kit, BUY IT. It will be worth it. But I have no idea how they are going to get around the EGR problem. They might make a new tube. Then they will have to tackle the rear support brackets problem to be able to sell it to the public. I simple didn't bolt my brackets back in. Don't lean on the upper IM and you'll be fine.

CyMax

iTrader: (5)

Well they haven't made anyting for the VE or the VG and the channels through the intake are the most likely reason, not too much to gain by isolating the mani if your going to pump hot coolant through it. Ah schucks!!! I think my KS is going and was looking forward to doing more work while i had the IM off.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

stud length is the least of your worries. You will be changing the runner angle and lots of gasket/port matching will be required.

I haven't had mine in for over a year, it's not a problem.

subs1000w

like mrgone said i dont think it would be posible to make a spacer for the lower do to the angles it would require heavy modifying and welding and i dont think it would be worth it since coolant runs through it anyways

ive never heard of a Vee style engine having an aftermarket lower intake manifold spacer

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

They already make them for the VG. Yes, lower IM spacers for the VG. They are on ebay. I can look up the name if you're interested.

For my VE, no welding will be required to do this. All I need to do is raise the lower IM by about 1/8" or so. I will make sure the ports match up perfectly, or else, I will be losing performance. It is a sharp angle, but I will port match it flawlessly. It will take several days for me to do it while my motor is ripped apart. But I will make sure it's matched up perfectly or I won't install it.

But then again, since coolant flows through the lower IM, I will have to think about it some more before putting a lot of hours into it. I know exactly what my coolant temp is at operating temperature. If my lower IM is anything above that, then the spacers should help. Plus, lengthening the intake path so close to the heads will make a nice difference in low end if I make the paths smooth enough (not to hurt top end).

:edit: Here is the ebay seller for the VG spacers:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...974663274&rd=1

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Those VG ones dont even look thick enough to make a difference (in terms of temp and how the motor is assembled). But I've never removed the lower intake manifold on a VG before.

As I was saying about the angle, it will increase which can rob power.

Wiking

If I had a spare VG, I would plug the lower intake and arrange cooling flow to bypass it. Dunno how - as I have not seen the intake and as people are not providing any useful pics, but somehow...