Are 1993-94 Maxima SE(s) with Twin Cam faster than the 1995-99 Maxima(s)? Any other thoughts about 1993-94 Maxima Twin Cam maintainance problems and/or reliability?

 

boy this'll get locked quick.

in the end it will depend on the driver

 

In my experience, yes.

 

In other words, which car should I buy? I heard the 1993/94 Twin-cam will eat my wallet alive -- attempting to keep the car on the road. Is this true?

Keep posting your thoughts...

I have posted this question in both forums. I am in the process of buying another Maxima -- as a younger sibling to my 1984.

Please give me reasons to buy a 1993/94 SE Twin Cam over 1994-99(s)!!!

 

well, you really have to appreciate the 3rd gen to buy one.... these cars are old and most need maintenance that the seller probably didnt give it. I'm slowly finding out how expensive my car really is. LOL But it's ok, because I love this thing. I've replaced or bought the following parts and are waiting to have them installed, battery, altenator, clutch, power steering rack, power steering pump, power steering hoses, a/c clutch, a/c compressor, bushings, springs.... oh forgot to mention... the engine was replaced when i got the car. I'm basically rebuilding this car from the ground up. I love it. Oh, and i had to resolder my clock, bypass the seatbelt sensors, and toss a piece of wire into a relay to make my cruise control always on. Is this car faster than 4th gen? Well I race my friend all the time, and lately he's been kicking my butt because my power steering is going out and its robbing my car of hp, not to mention he just got the rest of his exhaust put on and i only have a y piupe and high flow cat. I used to be neck and neck with him, and at one point I even kicked his butt =P

 

Just go test drive them both. See what one you like more. Yes, a 3rd gen will probably require more maintence as it is older, but then again you might find one in good shape and should be good for a long time. On the same note I have heard of some of the same horror stories with 4th gens, really just try to find a car that has been taken care of.

 

Honestly, the 4th gen's VQ is a simpler, more robust engine so if repair costs are a big concern, go with a 4th gen. But a 3rd gen is more fun

 

I agree with MrGone and Mizeree. You need to test drive one and look at each and decide which you like better. The way it drives, body style, etc. Personally, I like the body style of the 3rd gen better, but that doesn't mean I don't like the 4th.

They both have pros and cons. The 3rd gen you are referencing is the 92-94 SE, commonly referred to as a VE, for the VE30DE engine code. The 4th gen would be a 95-99 with the VQ30DE.

Both VE and 4th gen 5-speed cars stock for stock are just about even in the 1/4 mile. I think the 3rd gen handles a little better in stock form, due to the full independent rear.

The aftermarket is considerably stronger for the 4th gen, with big bonuses being an available supercharger and coil over suspension. Neither are cheap, but something that is not available at all for 3r gens.

You can usually find a VE cheaper, especially if you want some options. The 4th gen is available in a GXE model (base) with a 5-speed and the same engine as the SE, so that can be a less expensive way to get a 4th gen.

As for reliability, a lot of VE owners go well past 200k with minimal problems, as do 4th gens. The big problem with the VE engine is the VTCs, which usually start clacking (sounds like a diesel) after 100-150k miles.

 

Thanks for all of your replies...

 

Was that a joke or are you serious? Power steering robing car of HP? If anything, you might gain HP by completly unhooking the belt. Not sure if the same belt is connected to anything else though.

 

3rd gen VE 5speed at high end, owns all maxima gens!!!!!

 

Basically, the VQ is easier to maintain but the VEs have that fun factor. I say go for the VQ because the VEs have plenty of mechanical problems(ie. VTCs, fuel injectors....). Plus the VQ is liquid smooth.

 

no no, the power steering is still hooked up, and its going bad... its causing my car to idle funky, and since it's started to go out, I've noticed a loss of power. Maybe its just me, but I really think a bad power steering pump and rack are the cause of my hp loss. We'll find out tomorrow, because thats when I'm getting it replaced.

 

never raced a ve with my vg before but how does the vg stand up to the competition here? vg vs ve and vg vs vq sorry if this has been talked about a million times before but i figured i'd take this opportunity to ask the question...

 

The VG is not competition. Even with an Intake, full exhaust, UPD, ECU... it will still get crushed. It simply does not have any high end.

The difference between my fully modded VG auto (except UDP) and my VE 5spd is night and day. My VE absolutely rapes the VG. Period.

 

I know others have, but I've owned 4 VE engines and have never had a Injector Fail, thats over 500,000 miles combined.

 

VG 5spd's are better than Auto's, they can atleast put up a fight to most honda's teenagers drive

I'm gonna check my other inbox in a minute, I know theres a sweet reply in there

 

I ran quicker times with my VE My VQ sucked ringing out past 5,000rpm while the VE still feels strong until about 5,800rpm.

Not only that, but the 92-94 SE steering is tight and weighty and the suspension isn't sloppy over bumps. The steering column is solid over bumps also. In the 4th gen, you can visibly see the steering wheel flex over bumps but you don't feel ish and its super duper light.

 

Errrr.... like the crankshaft? A p/s pump that has begun to wear can easily cause enough friction to affect idle and, thus, hp.
Aside: Fix that thing before it locks up, shreds your belt, and throws it into the other causing a very bad day.

 

first off these cars only start off 30hp different stock. on our heavy cars that isnt a huge difference. the last time i had a VE against my VG i beat it on the top end all motor. i have the full exhaust udp ecu. oh yea i also have an msd ignition and a water methanol kit. that "WHOLE" extra 3 hp must have did it . that was my only advantage. perhaps my motor was a bit more fresh. i'd love to go bottle for bottle against a ve for $h!ts and giggles.

i do notice that the 4th gen guys tend to use a bigger shot then most 3rd gen guys. their 125-150 shot compared to 75shots that i normally see on the 3rd gens. i guess as long as you dont detonate you wont have too bad of a problem. well besides perhaps the engine becoming tired prematurely.

 

So you used water methanol but consider your win as being all motor?

This is the dynograph of a well maintained VG. It was owned by Matt93SE.



This is the dynograph of a well maintained VE. It was modded and was also owned by Matt93SE.




Notice how the the power curve of the VG is basically the reverse of the VE. As the rpms increase in the VG, the power decreases. But in the VE, as the rpms increase, the more power you make. The VE is making around 170hp @ 5800rpm. The VG is making about 106hp @ 5800 rpm. Or a 64hp difference. That is why the VE has a reputation as having great top end while the VG is known as a dog. See? So while on paper it may only look like a 30hp difference, that is just in peak power. The reality is that the VE makes more power at ~3800rpm than a VG does ever. And that gap only grows as the rpms increase. Obviously these dynographs are not representative of all VG and all VEs. But they should help you draw some valid conclusions about the performance of each motor.

 

In addition to what Pervis just posted, that 30 hp is good for a full second off the quarter for the same type of Transmission, I guess thats pretty small difference . Was it a auto VE vs a 5spd VG? then I guess there could be a chance, because you can catch them off gaurd and crap but still.

Water injection eh? what are you using that for? MSD isn't doing that much for you either. Honestly the only things that are really helping are the UDP and Y-pipe.

As for the nitrous thing. How many people do you know who have put nitrous on a VE? I only know of one person currently using nitrous on one and he is running a large 125shot. It's not that VE's arent capable of it, It's that no one runs them. Heck I can only think of 2 other people who have used a 50-75 shot on a VE. It is just not a popular mod for this generation where it is much more common with the later generations. Your comparison is off base and not accurate.

 

30 hp is a huge difference at the track. Maybe going from stoplight to stoplight in 1st gear your VG seems as quick as a VE, but there is no way on a track that a NA VG is anywhere near a NA VE.

Running nitrous or turbo puts cars in a totally different ballpark, but do not even try to compare a NA VG with a NA VE.

If someone with a VG that doesn't have nitrous or turbo has run better than mid 15s in the 1/4 mile, I haven't seen it.

My car is naturally aspirated, with just bolt on mods and I pulled down a 14.85 @ 93 mph yesterday. It was in the middle of the day and 75 degrees. I also forgot to advance my timing, so that was stock. I am sure my car could reach mid 14s with some cooler weather and the timing advanced. There were three other .org members at the track with me (two 4th gens and a 5th gen).

There is not a NA VG that could probably come within a second of that time. A second in the quarter mile is a LOT. On one of my test runs (equal lights, not staggered) a guy in a modded Eclipse GSX beat my by a second (13.85 vs my 14.87) and it seemed like he tore me a new one, beating me by numerous car lengths.

 

You got the VG curves confused....@5800RPM the VG is making 119HP.

 

IMO, I would say the VQ feels just a tad bit more alive in acceleration then the VE, but so small of a difference it is, there is none when you average in the driver skill, car weight, etc.. Top end VE is better though.
Some extra info here...

https://maxima.org/modules.php?name=30_comparisons

I also think that 3rd gen build quality is a little better. Just feels more solid. Take a look at the price difference of the 3rd and 4th gens when each model was new. Seems they really cheapened out on the 4th gen.

 

that water methanol is there for the nitrious and finally when i go boosted. it dont add horsepower and thats for sure. its really there for anti detonation especially for nitrous, thats all. it allows you to further advance the timing without detonation. the proof is in the pudding. i never claimed anything in the quarter mile now did i . i have a 5 speed and i didnt know what the ve had. all i know is his buddies was talking a bunch of trash about the whole VE VG thing and simply i shut them up. on the dyno sheets the ve was modded and the vg was unmodded??? i know the dyno sheets give a good representation but the horsepower difference would be better suited if both cars were modded the same.


PS i have a findanza flywheel which i forgot to add to my mod list above. i havnt dyno'd the car so i cant argue

 

thats a great time. I ran a 14.9@92 with 2 bolt ons, so we know that the VE and VQ are very close. But my friend ran a 16.0 (sorry unknown trap) with a 90 se. mods were cone filter, straight through muffler, act clutch, and 205/55/16 on mangles. Thats really close to 1 sec diff. if he still had the car with a y pipe he would have easly broke your 1 sec barrier. I was compleatly shocked at his 16 flat. I figured he would be in the upper 16's. any how it just shows that vg are slower but still not terribly slow.

 

oh cmon, like 10hp makes a difference

Why would it help the nitrous? The nitrous itself cools the intake charge far more than water injection ever will.

I hope your talking about advancing the timing under FI, because you can already get the as much as these engines will allow out of just advancing the timing without any additional stuff. Those who have troubles need to either tune up their engine or move to the coast

You could always meet Mizeree_X at some local track if he's down and put the whole thing to rest. I'm sure he'll be dying to pull some numbers once he finishes the knock sensor.

 

So 51hp instead of 64hp. Still a lot.

 

Right, I'm assuming everyone knows that, and my apologies to anyone who didn't know that the PS belt was attached to the Crankshaft. What I meant is that you could unhook the PS pump to possibly gain a few ponies, but I didn't know if there were OTHER accessories that were driven by the same belt ( for example, water pump, alternator, etc. etc.). On a smaller note, I just consulted with my meachanic, because I wasn't sure, and he confirmed what I already assumed: you do NOT loose HP with a bad PS pump. PERIOD. When a PS pump goes out, you get the noisy whine everytime you turn the wheel, plus a few other symptoms.

 

What the hell is a msd ignition and a water methanol kit?

P.S. I'd love to run your bottled VG against my bottled 5.0 for $hits and giggles.

 

I don't know about a full second. I only gained a second and a half with my N20 on my 5.0 and i'm running a 125 shot. (too scared to run a 150)
If I were to use your above assumption, that means my car would be in the 11's.

 

you forget about the
a. law of diminishing returns
b. gearing
c. ignition capabilities

 

That's pretty much sums it up. I will with hold personnal comments to keep this from becoming a heated debate

 

well, my results say otherwise. My rack and pinion were bad, the pump was bad, and i had leaky hoses. After my dad replaced all that, my car drives beautifully. I can tell a difference, the car feels freed from the burden. Maybe it was the rack and pinion? who knows. I'm just happy its fixed. I had to put a bottle of fluid in before every drive

 

I don't think it's actually a 30 hp = a 1 second difference for any car at any 1/4 mile time. At a certain point, you need tons of hp to make gains. Also, traction. There are a lot more factors than hp in 1/4 mile times.

For the 3rd gen Maximas, it comes out to about that. A stock VE 5-speed runs about a full second faster than a stock VG 5-speed and it has 30 more hp.

If you add 30 hp to a car running 12s, it might add a few tenths, if that.

 

MSD = Ignition. VG's can use it because they have an old school ignition. VE's can too but the cost is not worth the benefits.

you can't look at it as only 30hp. The power curves are completely different. Same with the transmission gearing. Also you should know that it takes more and more power to ggo faster as your car becomes faster. Kind of hard to explain. Here for example you have 2 of the exact same cars. Exact same setup/conditions/power curves/etc. One makes 200hp, one makes 450hp. You are going to notice a much larger gain on the 200hp engine than the 450hp engine.

 

ahhh, the hours that have been spent on this conversation.

 

sure i'd love to. only if you start in third gear . j/k. what does your stang run in the quarter. my buddy in his ss would love to run you bottle to bottle.

http://www.snowperformance.net/faq.asp
this link is for all the skeptics of water/ methanol and people who keep asking what it is.

http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...opic.php?t=220
even these guys claim you can get up to 25% more power on water/ methanol through advanced timing on nitrous.

 

Best time i got with the stang was just 12.9@110 with a 1.89 60ft.

And for that SS I have just the remedy: 2003 KB cobra at 17psi.

I have to have backup up too you know.