92 ve5
trying to start with:
open maf
open header(well... ported manifolds)
new battery
new starter (maybe not for long)

it cranks. i verified spark.
i can smell fuel, via the open manifolds...

what is amiss here? i pull the plugs, they're soaked.
tried the ol' lighter trick and it's like there's water on the plugs. nothing happens. i added another 5 gallons of new gas, but the battery died. i think i'll just dump a liter of tolulene down there... hey... that's not such a bad idea...
so you think it could be bad gas? it's been down for almost a year... 1/8 tank of year old 87 could do it ,huh?


also, the rear injector wiring harness... how is that supposed to route? i forgot to mark it and it seems now, that it could be a problem... i pulled the manifold and rerouted it the other way and it doesnt seem to make a difference...

so that was my first guess. other than bad grounds... i have an 8awg ground going from the intake to the strut tower. the 3 factory grounds that attach to the front of the intake manifold, and the battery ground that attaches to the front of the block, above the starter.

did i miss any?
any help is very appreciated
thank you in advance,
kurt

 

What do you mean by open MAF??

 

i would pull a fuel line and pump out about half a gallon of gas to make sure your lines have good fuel in them

then try to start it again and maybe have somone spray carb cleaner down the open TB while cranking

did you crush the rear injector harness if so you could have shorted an injector triger out/blew the ECU fuse and fryed the ECU. dont ask me how i know this

 

play with your timing a bit.

 

I think he means no filter on the end of maf.

 

make sure all sensors are connected. mainly CPS and etc.

 

Check if you are getting any spark to the plugs. Then report back

 

I personally would guess its bad gas, a year old is right around the point where the gas could be bad or good be ok. i would empty the tank via fuel pump and put some new premium in then try it...

Just my $.02

 

thanks guys for the tips, it was/is bad gas. it now starts with spraying brake cleaner in the intake but wont stay running due to the bad gas.

 

with that reply, I'll bet your having a fuel supply problem, and you're supposed to use carb cleaner not brake cleaner

 

carb clean... brake clean(non chlorinated) it works. thats all that matters.
this is not the point. i dont want to get into this right/wrong brakeclean stuff. i had brake clean, no carb clean. thats the only reason it was used.... lets stay focused to the topic on hand, please. i just want to get this beeeitch outta the garage.

i tested the pump. hell, i pumped 5 gallons out of the tank by putting a hose on the end of the fuel filter and pumping it into a bucket. that's more than a test.

i have spark, since the car runs on manual fueling. and it runs good, too.

the injector harness has not shorted the ECU since it will run with my help.
could the rear injector harness be on backwards? i dont know exactly how it is supposed to go, but i put it on the only way that made sense...

could someone show me how the injector harness is supposed to go?

and as far as the CPS (both of them? on the front bank..) they are plugged in, and i haven't touched the setting since removal when the car ran....
i drove it in the garage. but now i cant drive it out.
how are you supposed to check timing with a COP system?
i dont believe i missed any plugs whatsoever...

i have replaced the fuel filter due to 75% blockage, figuring that was the problem. wasnt.
fuel pump works, relay is good, pressure is damn good now with new FF.
that narrows it down to the hard stuff.


for reference i will tell you what it is.

92 ve5
open maf (and that only means there is no filter attached to the maf)
pcv system rerouted to catch can
egr removed
charcoal canister removed

the only vacuum lines i have are
FPR
power valve
brake booster (not really a vac line)


help? please... lol. i would like to see it run on its own fuel by the middle of this week.

thank you for any/all input.
i think thats it...

 

Just a thought... you dont have the IACV going to the catch can do you, if you do that would screw stuff up. i would think it would still start though.

 

I still haven't seen a fuel pressure test in your list, just a fuel volume test.
Also get /borrow some noid lights to make sure the injectors are even being told to pulse

 

nonono.. i have the IACV hooked up correctly, but good point! i forgot to hook up the hose to the ISC(same thing) on my supra and it took me a second to figure out why when it started, it would fire straight up to 2k and die... lol

well, im damn sure the fuel pump is pumping enough pressure. it would at least stumble... not neglect to fire at all...

and the noid light, good point. im definetely heading to get one right now.


and about that injector harness... anyone know how it goes? does it stay tucked between the rear v/c and intake runners? or does it go around the left side of the manifold, and tuck between the runners and front v/c?
i'd post a pic to illustrate my point, but i dont see an option. must be one of those things you have to donate to do...


and another Q, what's the firing order of the VE?

also, what about some type of vacuum diagram? anyone have a link to that? and also, grounds. what is supposed to be grounded? i may be missing one or two from the harness, i feel... it's like something injector-related is not grounded.

again, thank you for any/all input
kurt

 

if you IM me, I'll send you a link to some useful info

 

picked up noid light.


no reaction whatsoever. the injectors are not firing.
im stuck. the intake manifold is back off and i removed the rear injector harness, checked for wire breaks, and re-covered it. i think i'm getting a lack of signal from the CPS... what does each CPS control?

and again, could this be ground related?

internetautomart, you have a pm.

 

well now you know the problem,
you need to check to see if the computer is sending the signal to fire the injectors (check it at the computer)

and you've been replied too

 

Didn't you just state it ran? If that's so, it's not the injectors. How does run "with manual fueling" ?

If it does run, it's probably not the CAS. But it could be a the PTU thing. It's that thin black box just to the right or behind the cam angle sensor. Make sure all the connections are clean. Above and below the unit.

 

manual fueling, a.k.a. feeding with carb clean...

and a mk3 supra guy (my other car) scanned an entire shop manual and put it online for public usage and it's unbelievably helpful, even though i have the manual myself... has anyone done this for the maxima community? and dont send me the link to autozone's site... i really haven't found that manual useful at all...

i would like to know what that "PTU thing" is/does...
thanks

 

i haven't looked at it yet, but thanks for the quick response internetautomart

 

How do manually feed with carb clean? Just shoot it down the intake manifold?

 

that would be my guess ive done it a few time when the pump (or pump fuse) would die

im pretty sure if you have ignition your CPS is fine

i would remove the CPS but leave it pluged in and turn the key to run and turn the CPS rotor and that should "click" the injectors if you dont here any clicks my guess would be you fried the injector trigger output of the ecu if it still starts with carb cleaner your ecu fuse cant be blown so that would be my guess

also i would remove the rear injector harness and use a meter with continuity to test to make sure nothing is shorted out because if it is shorted it will fry the ecu "like i said ive been through this before" BUT when mine fried it only blewout part of the output and blew the ECM fuse so once i figered out what happened and repaired the harness and replaced the fuse the car still ran but it was only trigering 4 injectors and when i pulled the ecu apart one of the (i think its called a FET what ever bolts to the heat sink) was blown

i know your problem isnt exactly like mine but it seems simalare

 

Nice! I would also think that if only the rear harness was bad, the engine would attempt to start on the front 3 that are firing.

 

ok... this is some cruel joke...
the noid light i bought... under closer inspection, the LED was white/milky color and the surrounding area melted.... so, i, noticing its just an LED, ran inside and grabbed a green one out of a bunch i have... put it on the injectors, lights up.

the injectors ARE being told to fire.

figure, what the hell. the car is getting fuel, spark... what else?

MAF?

as my brother is trying to start the car, i blow into the MAF out of sheer frustration. it starts and runs until i get light headed.

so now i need a new MAF somehow...


just plain friggin wtf.

 

That doesnt seem right. Is the engine getting its air from the maf? IE theres no gaping holes or decent sized leaks, as that would cause the maf to read wrong. Blowing into it would make up for the leaks, bringing the reading close egnough to run the engine. if you have an air compressor see if it will run longer using that. Or just look for leaks.

PS if you want to try another maf, lmk. I can send you one to try and pay for it if you need it, but that doesnt seem to be your problem. but it is hard to tell over the net...

~Alex

 

assuming you have the maf conected to the throttlebody like stated above and it still does not start just disconect the MAF wire harness and it should start if the maf is bad

 

to be honest, it seemed wierd that it would run when i forced air into the maf... i sensed there may be blockage in the intake manifold (stray rag, perhaps?) but i sort of dismissed that when the car would run with the help of carb clean, it is getting air... the car would not run (i.e. the same) without the maf... so....

my brother is heading to the junkyard right now to pick up another maf and i think tonight or tomorrow i will pull the intake manifold off again and check, but as far as i know, the only connections on it are the brake booster, heater core bypass valve, and pcv hose on the rear of it... the pcv is capped and the other two are hooked up.
there is a new nissan intake manifold gasket with a light coat of rtv on it, a new nissan throttle body gasket and, if i were to have a vacuum leak, the manifold seems like it would have to be spaced .5" off the lower runners....

oh well. the intake mani will come off again, as i can now get it off in about 5 minutes... i will thoroughly inspect the inside of the manifold and see if there are any blockages.....

i suppose i'm just thinking out loud now, but im sure its giving you a good idea of whats going through my head during this whole problem.

 

try starting it with the MAF totally disconnected

 

new maf, same problem.

with the maf disconnected, even completely off the car still does not run.

i have a sneaking suspicion that something found its way into the intake manifold... at any rate the manifold is coming off AGAIN tonight and im going to thoroughly inspect the inside of it for perhaps a stray rag... yay.

 

ok. it started and ran.

if i restrict the maf, i mean really restrict it... it will run with one of those cap-type oil filter wrenches... like this-->

completely covering the maf and only breathing through the .5" hole it runs.


is there something i did wrong when i removed the egr? it seemed very straightforward, and i doubt that the engine will only run when its getting exhaust gas in the intake manifold... so what could it be?!?!!

 

Boy, it sounds like you have a vacuum leak in the intake somewhere. Take your carb cleaner (or substitute) and try spraying it around some of the places you think you may have a leak, while cranking it. When you hit the right place it should start. Perhaps when you were blowing into it, you may have been restricting it?

 

that's how you used to diagnose a vaccum leak on a carb, you "choke" the motor by putting your hand over the carb.

 

intake manifold is coming back off... i just dont get it.
stupid complicated variable plenum...

anyway, no harm done by removing egr, correct?

also, does anyone have a vacuum diagram?

 

Aslong as you completely sealed the EGR hole in the IM you should be fine.

If I'm reading this right, the car runs when you force more air into the maf, and also runs when you nearly completely block it? Something sounds bad if thats the case (as in maybe not the maf, but maybe the ECU, or both?)

~Alex

 

new maf, same ecu...

it ran well, however you could tell it was quite restricted when i had it choked off... sounds damn good though... the wierd part is that this new maf does not work when we blow into it like the old one... so i dont know if this one is bad or what...

i definetely did seal the hole in the intake. i made a block off plate, i made a gasket, and sealed with 850* rtv.

something is clearly amiss here...

i guess apart it comes again. i started to remove the intake manifold yesterday, but i was frustrated and hot, so i quit for the evening.

BUT, the car will start (restricted) fine when cold. but no matter what you do, block the MAF, feed it carb clean, keep the MAF unrestricted... it will not start hot. will NOT.

i am thoroughly confused.

 

Faulty coolant temp sensor? Red one

 

How's u spark? How's u gas? ... bad gas, poor spark = poor ignition.

MAF:
If I take MAF connector off, revving stutters, max 2200rpm (safe mode), idle roaming. BUT it works.

 

spark is good
new half tank of 93 octane
new fuel filter
good fuel pressure, and flow.

and wiking, this is a VE, in case you didnt know.. but im sure you did, so thanks for the suggestions.

 

Be it 9L Viking Volvo, it stil needs good 1.fuel, 2. adequate detonation, 3.air. Well, maybe theres som differences to VE... When those three prerequisites meet in right spot, engine runs. Basics are simple, max is not.

1. fuel nogood, fuel amount/timing off
- fuel pressure measured AT RAIL END, new injectors, gas that works in other cars. Find a way to visually see some of the injectors healthy spray.
2. spark nogood: electron qty in pressurized plugs/timing off
- timing checkup, voltage checkup at batt, ECU & coilpack signal levels. get new plugs, coilpacks, cam sensor, ECU
3. air leaks. Redo Sealings. (mixture off, see 1.)

General Note: If light starter gases ignite but not gasoline spray, then spark under pressure in cylinders is inadequate. Note2: new Bosch or 3k NGK plugs may not give adequate spark UNDER PRESSURE, thats smtg u cannot see without equipment.

 

thanks again wiking.
and i wasnt trying to talk down to you about the engine. just making sure you knew what i was working on.

im pretty damn sure it's an air leak, but where... there seems to be good enough vacuum, so i'm somewhat at a loss for ideas...
it just kills me that the car ran before coming out, and now, after nothing's changed, it doesnt run.

how hard is it to remove the lower intake mani? remove fuel rails, then it comes out?