Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

Went to jury duty today. On the way back, tranny wouldn't shift into first or second.

It shifts smoothly into 3rd, 4th, 5th and reverse. It doesn't seem to grind or make any unusual noises. It is just kind of locked out of those two gears.

I had to roll through a few stop signs in third and burn up the clutch some to get it home and back in the garage, before going back to work in my wife's car.

I am at lunch now, but I won't be able to jack up the car and take a look until after 5 pm tonight.

Has this happened to anyone before?

Is it possible I am just looking at a linkage problem or is it likely I need to have some serious work done?

Just thought I would ask and see what I am likely getting myself into before going out in the frigid garage (it was built in the 1920s, no heat, no insulation, wooden floor) and our high is about 25 degrees. By the time I get off work and get changed it will probably be about 20 degrees or lower.

Thanks,

Chris

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ach! I'm thinking a shift fork. But I don't know if the same fork does 1st / 2nd. And only those gears. You have a piece of metal sitting in there preventing the tranny from going into those gears. Did it shift funny or grind before?

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

didn't seem to, but it has always been kind of loud in first gear.

Is that something I can fix with the tranny still on or does it have to be removed?

Edit --
Driving/shifting in 3-4-5 or R it is just like normal. No noise or anything.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I tried to pull up the autozone link but there's not blow up of the tranny internals.

On a RWD style manual, you can pull the tranny apart from the back of the bellhousing. That usually exposes the shift forks. But on a FWD, I don't think you can pull it apart on the car.

Maybe a detent spring/ball is clogging something up but I'm just guessing now.

Maxpwer

iTrader: (7)

Yes the first fork is 1st/2nd exclusively. Like jeff said, its likely there is something jamming up the fork rod. Usualy all it takes is a little metal shavings to score the rod and jam it up completly.
However, it maybe something as simple as the detent ball/spring coming out. I would check this first before pulling the trans.

When I rebuilt my VE trans, everything shifted smooth on the bench but when I installed it, I got locked up in first after a few miles. My first suspect was the detent ball/spring were the wrong ones somehow, so I swapped them out from another trans. Samething, shifted smooth on the bench, locked up after a few miles in the car. Finaly I upgraded the spring and ball, and Ive never had a problem since (approx 12k miles). The point is, even if the dent/spring are there, they maybe weak.

Maxpwer

iTrader: (7)

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Input shaft bearings.
loud in 1st = bad input shaft bearing
intermittent not going into 1,2,5,R = pieces of the input shaft bearing getting stuck in the linkage.

tear down tranny, replace bearings, clean junk out. drive on.
good garage mechanic = 1 day job. $110 for bearings, $30 seals, $25 fluid.
bad garage mechanic = buy another tranny. +$30 seals, $25 fluid
pay a shop to fix it for you= $1000

http://blehmco.com/pics/car/tranny/

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

is it not even allowing you to move to the 1-2 side of the gate? or is it just not going into those gears?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Mine tranny did the same thing a few months ago...But i had a grinding input shaft bearing for 50,000 miles before it would no longer go into 1st or 2nd gear....

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

or half a$$ garage mechanic: $20 for front bearing, $13 napa gl-4

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Brad92SE

iTrader: (9)

If it's the input shaft bearing the tranny will probably be making a whirring/clattering noise in neutral with the clutch out. When mine went out, a piece of metal jammed up the shifter so I couldnt even get it into the 1-2 gate.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I never noticed any odd noises when I drove it shortly after finishing the engine swap.

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

hey man, want to make a deal?

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Well crap, for the past month or so mine makes a whirring/clattering noise in neutral with the clutch out. Put the clutch in, and it's silent

I noticed a couple months back when I had to replace the T/O bearing that the springs on the clutch disk were kinda 'loose' so I was hoping that's what made the clattering noise. Guess I'm not gonna get off that lucky

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

yep, that's a failed bearing. you'll have to fix it eventually..

what brand of bearing did ya'll replace yours with? mine's NSK, so far so good and i've hit 6k quite a few times since replacing it. not that a new bearing should break so easially, i'm sure age has something to do with it although mtcookson says he's replaced his several times. course he's boosted..

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

I jacked the car up and it's something internal for sure. When it was happening, it wouldn't let me into either of the first two gears, but I could get the shifter to that side.

Out in the garage, after working the shifter around, now it lets me use the gears. I drove around the block and it seemed normal.

I am going to have to go with Matt's theory of the bad input shaft bearing, where it is intermittent because of pieces floating around in there.

I can't really do much at this point. It is dang cold out and I don't really have the time to fiddle around with it, at least until New Year's Day. It is much easier to fix the heater and connect the electric choke on my old Dodge. The only downside is if it snows, my wife has to either get up and drive me to work or let me take her rig.

I am also not very confident in my ability to take apart a tranny, so I will probably just take it out, then pay someone to do the work. I know a couple of guys who might be able to work something out with me. One guy is the transmission tech at the local Dodge dealer, but I am sure this would be a piece of cake for him and he has access to everything at his cost + a good shop, tools, etc.

Is that really a $1k job, Matt? If it is, I will probably just give the guy my truck for the work. He said he might be interested in buying it.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, guys. Ho Ho Ho...I guess my Christmas present is a busted tranny

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

well, if you take it in and tell a shop it needs a "rebuild", they're going to charge you minimum of about $850.

If you take it to them and tell them you need input shaft bearings on it, it'll cost you a lot less.
BUT.. generally they mark up the parts 100%, so you'd be best off to buy the bearings and input shaft seal from a dealer.. wouldn't hurt to replace the mainshaft and differential bearings as well...
cleaning up the innards and replacing all 6 bearings will take 2-3-4 hours for a tranny shop to do.. so at $65 per hour, you can get a ballpark of labor on it. the problem is being able to get them to do it for an hourly rate and not a "standard tranny rebuild" rate..

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

reading the pm now

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

where did you see that lizzard, matt?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

he jumped in my track toolbag. just a little baby gecko. they're everywhere around here.

Blackbob

Thank god for this thread,

I just bought a car for 600.00 that ran and everything but the car does the same thing. Wont let me get into the gate for 1st and 2nd even with the clutch down and everything. Just wont let me go all the way to the left side. Am I really looking at a tranny rebuild ? I would assume so with 220K on the car huh ? F*CK, I know I should have went with my feeling right when I first felt it. F**** A !!! I really don't have the money for this I'm jus some broke highschool student/asspiring maechanic who thought he had a good deal. I shoulda known something was up givin the car had been on the lot for a year..F*** !!!

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

did he try to sell you insurance?







So back on topic. yeah, I rebuilt my VE 5spd about 5 years ago when i put it in. On another note, I had the car in the air tonite and was spinning the wheels and noticed they didn't spin together 100%. almost like the limited slip wasn't gripping as well. me tinks da clutches are getting worn. is the the diff a sealed unit in these? i can't remember.

Dillbag

iTrader: (4)

oh yeah, just went back and looked at your pix, the lsd clutches look like they are a sealed deal unto themselves on the differential unit.
I was asking cuz i was thinking of adding some LSD additive i had laying around. It's some of the good old GM viscous fluid stuff that's made from whales or something.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

nope... sealed unit. FIVE ALIVE!!! NOOOO DISSASSEMBLE!!!


but the good news is that the 4th gen tranny uses the same diff and gears- part for part- as the VE tranny. thus the Quaife diff should drop right in... now if only I had $1500 more $ to blow, I'd try it out.

Blackbob

I'm so done for... :: cries ::

MrSector9

iTrader: (4)

yeah I am planning on rebuilding my VE5 before i swap it into my current mobile. Just cuz after i do the swap and if it only lasted even a month or 2 before something lkiek a bearing went bad woudl SUCK.. this way it is all new and going in

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

chris, if there's you can't hear grinding and klunking sounds when the clutch is engaged than it may not be the input shaft bearing. but i guess either way, you'll probably have to crack it open and clean whatever it is out. it's not too hard to work on the box unless you begin disassembling the shafts which you don't need to do for the isb. i still think you should just trade it to me for my 2 VGs though

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Dissassmeble dead diassemble dead

Brad92SE

iTrader: (9)

Its really not that bad of a job, its just time consuming. If you have basic tools, another person to help with pulling/installing the tranny, and a large 3-jaw puller (rent from autozone), you can replace the input shaft bearing. The hardest part is probably lining the gear assembly up when you put the tranny back together. Get the FSM, it does a decnt job at telling you what's involved.

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

Well, it looks like my Christmas present is going to be a fixed tranny for the Max.

I told my wife to take back everything she got me and give me cash.


It might have to sit in the garage until after the Holidays, though. I need to find a reliable, inexpensive way to get it fixed.

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I too had this same input shaft bearing problem recently. Before it went out, first gear was making a rattling noise and shifting was notchy (I'm sure the short shifter made it worse). First gear started rattling a couple months before it went out. As soon as I heard the noise, I knew it was the ISB.

Almost the same story every time: Noise in 1st, Noise in nuetral, 1st and 2nd gone. Recently, it seems like alot of people have had this ISB problem with the ve5. Maybe it's something to do with the age of these cars, maybe it's how hard they're driven....

hard driving+performance clutch+engine mods=sooner ISB failure

I wish there was a way I could build a car, drive it VERY HARD, and not have to worry about **** breaking.

Good luck fixing it

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

you can, but it's not going to be a maxima

subs1000w

i dont think i would say that, mardi's "built" trans has held up to a few 11sec passes w/7k clutch drops on slicks with spray but it obviously cost him a little bit of cash to get it to hold up

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

if he's pulling 11 sec passes the car won't structurally last that long. or axles etc..

these cars were NEVER inteded to be driven hard like that.
of course you can reinforce them to take abuse, but in the end it's still not a chassis to start with with for serious abuse

505max94se

iTrader: (15)

I still agree with internetautomar but, what has mardi done to his tranny?

Blackbob

FSM ? What's the whole name of that book ?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Factory service manual....

Blackbob

How much you think I'm looking at spending on one of those ? I'll prolly pick one up next paycheck.

Blackbob

Neither where the civic's.....but look where they are now.