RSB mod..:-)
05-08-2007, 06:04 PM
#1
RSB mod..:-)
I replaced my rsb a few weeks ago with a used unit[thanks jeff
] because my original rsb bushings were dry rotted..
As i finished installation,i noticed i could easily move the center section of the bar.
so i thought about making a center support for the bar to increase it's ability to limit "sway"..
So after some research and input from a few of our suspension guru's...
The result..
I did notice some improvement in rear end handling,i know because in a few past runs through some local twisties,i have noticed the rear end kinda "stepping out" on me a few times...now through the exact same roads as before,the rear end did not step out as it did before...
] because my original rsb bushings were dry rotted..As i finished installation,i noticed i could easily move the center section of the bar.
so i thought about making a center support for the bar to increase it's ability to limit "sway"..So after some research and input from a few of our suspension guru's...
The result..
I did notice some improvement in rear end handling,i know because in a few past runs through some local twisties,i have noticed the rear end kinda "stepping out" on me a few times...now through the exact same roads as before,the rear end did not step out as it did before...
05-08-2007, 06:26 PM
#2
Taking my Maxima to the Max!
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alachua, FL 32615
Posts: 1,096
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
I did notice some improvement in rear end handling,i know because in a few past runs through some local twisties,i have noticed the rear end kinda "stepping out" on me a few times...now through the exact same roads as before,the rear end did not step out as it did before...
Also, will you do a step by step write up of how you did this soon? Thanks.
-Mrkanda
05-08-2007, 06:41 PM
#4
Originally Posted by mrkanda
Is "stepping out" in the rear a good thing? I suppose that means the car tends to oversteer now instead of understeer. Wouldn't a more neutral balance be more effective performance wise?
Don't get me wrong,this mod will not get the maxima into nascar by any means
It's just a "little" help in the scheme of things..
Originally Posted by mrkanda
Also, will you do a step by step write up of how you did this soon? Thanks.
-Mrkanda
-Mrkanda
05-08-2007, 07:47 PM
#6
yeah after my clutch replacement and UDP addition, im going to start on suspension
thanks for the write up
is there some reinforcement in the spare wheel well where that is bolted on to? and it wont bend it maybe?
thanks for the write up
is there some reinforcement in the spare wheel well where that is bolted on to? and it wont bend it maybe?
05-09-2007, 09:33 AM
#10
Originally Posted by plaman88
what jack is that, I know its craftsman, but which one? I'm looking/waiting for the right one.
It's the 3 1/2 ton model...I've had it about 4-5 years now...I'm not sure if they even make that particular model anymore.
05-09-2007, 09:49 AM
#11
I wonder if you cut up the old bar and doubled up the parts where it bends. I wonder if that would help? ie.. welding the two bended pieces together. The thing is I wonder if that would affect the temper of the steel and affect the stiffness?
05-09-2007, 11:33 AM
#13
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I wonder if you cut up the old bar and doubled up the parts where it bends. I wonder if that would help? ie.. welding the two bended pieces together. The thing is I wonder if that would affect the temper of the steel and affect the stiffness?
I don't know jeff if it would effect the steels ability to bend,i guess it depends what kind of welding used...Maybe some spot welds?
But maybe it would best just left alone,imo any more time/trouble spent on the stock bar,you would be better off with spending the money for the addco bar..
But i have tossed around the idea of some poly fill on the end bushings..
05-09-2007, 04:40 PM
#17
the point of the bar is to fight flex partially by linking the 2 wheels and acting like a torsion rod.
if all you are doing is adding 2 pieces that are no longer linked together on to 1 piece that is you will achieve nothing except for creating additional stress on the solid anti-roll bar.
The weak point I see in the maximas design is that the "frame" brackets are not mount to a solid piece but to a rod which acts as a lever and still allows movement that should not happen.
Your mod would be more effetive if you actually had 2 points rather than the 1 point you added on a more solid surface.
Did you follow all that?
if all you are doing is adding 2 pieces that are no longer linked together on to 1 piece that is you will achieve nothing except for creating additional stress on the solid anti-roll bar.
The weak point I see in the maximas design is that the "frame" brackets are not mount to a solid piece but to a rod which acts as a lever and still allows movement that should not happen.
Your mod would be more effetive if you actually had 2 points rather than the 1 point you added on a more solid surface.
Did you follow all that?
05-09-2007, 04:52 PM
#18
I would agree with the above of the bar was straight. but it has two large bends on each end. Which I suspect help bend the bar. Limiting the way the two bends areas flex might stiffen up the bar by putting more emphasis on actually attempting to twist the bar. But I would guess more beefy mounts would also be in order.
05-09-2007, 04:59 PM
#19
in my understanding the bends are there to act as levers.
the longer the lever the greater the rate.
the section from the bend to the link should not twist at all, only the straight section should.
though this is all pointless until some truly solid mounts are made. Triangulation would help.
though it's been a LONG time since I was under a max i don't know how easily it could be strengthened more.
the longer the lever the greater the rate.
the section from the bend to the link should not twist at all, only the straight section should.
though this is all pointless until some truly solid mounts are made. Triangulation would help.
though it's been a LONG time since I was under a max i don't know how easily it could be strengthened more.
05-09-2007, 05:13 PM
#20
Originally Posted by internetautomar
The weak point I see in the maximas design is that the "frame" brackets are not mount to a solid piece but to a rod which acts as a lever and still allows movement that should not happen.
Video is loading..
05-09-2007, 05:52 PM
#22
Originally Posted by internetautomar
30 minutes later:
But basically,the drop down links no longer move,the extra link i put on has in a word "frozen" them in place...
But this is all pointless in your mind anyway,right?
Anyhoo...Heres the vid...
http://www.viddler.com/MyGreenMax/videos/4/
05-09-2007, 05:56 PM
#24
Originally Posted by internetautomar
did you put a camera down there while driving or exercising the suspension?
that's the only way you'll know what if any effect the center point is having.
that's the only way you'll know what if any effect the center point is having.
My son hopped in the trunk and jumped up-n-down..
yeah,i kinda chuckled after viewing it also..
05-09-2007, 06:07 PM
#27
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
My son hopped in the trunk and jumped up-n-down..
when both wheels are moving up and down fairly equally (car going in a straight line over typical road bumps) the bar is supposed to do little to nothing.
when the wheels are at uneven levels then the bar works to keep the body at even tilt so the axle center line is parallel to the body.
Dam, I saw a real good thread on this a little while back, just can't remember on which forum
05-09-2007, 06:12 PM
#28
The point of the video was to show that the drop down links do not move now,also explain how they can move at all now with the center support there? not being mean,just want your input..
Truthfully,i had my doubts about it being worthwhile mod,until i showed it to Matt93se,he actually liked it,and though it had some viability as a mod for the bar...
He also mentioned that it may have added a small amount of spring rate to the rear springs..
Truthfully,i had my doubts about it being worthwhile mod,until i showed it to Matt93se,he actually liked it,and though it had some viability as a mod for the bar...
He also mentioned that it may have added a small amount of spring rate to the rear springs..
05-09-2007, 07:28 PM
#30
Originally Posted by internetautomar
it's a start, but the drop links will still move under serious cornering.
Maybe they will,but nothing even remotley close to before....
Like i said before,this is not something that will make the car "nascar ready" by any means...But IMO, it is a small improvement over the stock setup,i can definitely feel an improvment in the way the car handles in a corner..
Plus,it is something that anyone could afford to do...$10 at most..Lets face it,most of the 3rd gen crew is not spending thousands of dollars like some of us have on mods anymore...3rd gens are mostly college kid cars now...I would like to give these guys a few cheaper options on effective mods...I believe this is one of them...
05-09-2007, 07:42 PM
#32
The way a sway bar works is that you're twisting the center section. Neither the arms on the ends or the bends in the bar are the major force of the sway bar.. If you look at a race-type sway bar, they are simply a hollow or solid steel rod/tube with knurled ends and they have a non-flexing arms clamped to the end.
Based on what I've seen before with sway bars, a long, skinny bar like the stock one will bow in the center, reducing the effective spring rate of the sway bar. (GM, that doesn't necessarily mean wheel-spring rate, that's sway bar spring rate, since it's simply a funny shaped spring).
Thus, adding a bushing in the center to reduce or remove the bowing tendency of the stock bar will cause all of the bending stress to go to twisting the bar where it has a greater spring rate. This will effectively stiffen the sway bar by some unknown amount. I'm sure someone with a physics or mechanical engineering degree could give you real numbers, but I can't do it.
The underlying point is that this bushing can do nothing but help, assuming that the bushing isn't causing binding against the bar.
Based on what I've seen before with sway bars, a long, skinny bar like the stock one will bow in the center, reducing the effective spring rate of the sway bar. (GM, that doesn't necessarily mean wheel-spring rate, that's sway bar spring rate, since it's simply a funny shaped spring).
Thus, adding a bushing in the center to reduce or remove the bowing tendency of the stock bar will cause all of the bending stress to go to twisting the bar where it has a greater spring rate. This will effectively stiffen the sway bar by some unknown amount. I'm sure someone with a physics or mechanical engineering degree could give you real numbers, but I can't do it.
The underlying point is that this bushing can do nothing but help, assuming that the bushing isn't causing binding against the bar.
05-09-2007, 07:45 PM
#33
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
Plus,it is something that anyone could afford to do...$10 at most..Lets face it,most of the 3rd gen crew is not spending thousands of dollars like some of us have on mods anymore...
05-09-2007, 07:48 PM
#34
Originally Posted by internetautomar
let's check back in a month or so, I'm curious how the mounting point will hold up.
This is also a concern of mine,it has been on the car about 3 weeks now,with no visible damage to the mounting points as of yet..And yes i have been "testing" it out..
05-09-2007, 07:52 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Let's face it.. most of the 3rd genners reading this thread have a spare stock bushing laying around somewhere in their pile of random parts...
Jeffy gave me the one that is on there now..
