In response to the newcomer on the scene who seems so determined to make his mark by bad-mouthing Cattman products, I'll note that there is no Cattman JetHot Y-pipe offered anymore, I've switched over entirely to stainless and I'll match it with anybody, anyday.

16-guage mild steel tubing can be used to make a value-priced Y-pipe, but this is a very high stress part (remember that the stock piece is primarily cast iron), many of the gen3 motor mounts are weak, and my observations have forced me to decide that stainless is the only material that is reliable in this application over the long term. I'll just say that the JetHot pipes I sold previously were made elsewhere, and while appropriate for a value-priced pipe, were definitely not made to the same quality standards. We live, we learn...

Despite web pages to the contrary, I suspect that my stainless pipe is the only one actually available at this time. What I see from the "new competition" seems to compete with something I don't make anymore. Unless the stainless version they refer to is significantly more sophisticated than their uncoated mild steel design, it will not compare with the quality of the TIG-welded Cattman stainless steel Y-pipe.

- My stainless pipe is designed and made by MaxRev in Phoenix, which does some of the finest stainless fabrication and CNC work (turbos and big brakes, too) in the region. - The stainless pipes have no clearance issues against any part of the car.
- The flex sections we use are very high quality all-stainless units, and the only ones I know of that do not hiss/buzz in this application.
- The Cattman flexes do not reduce in diameter even slightly on the inside; if the exterior of the flex is not significantly larger in diameter than the tubing its attached to, the interior of the flex has go be smaller in diameter.
- The TIG-welding is strong to the extent that I've never had a cracked pipe returned with cracking in all of the stainless pipes I've sold.
- The 2-1 collectors fabricated specifically for this part are near works of art. They merge very gradually and are identical in design to those used in the very best racing headers. Now, look at the same component from the new guys.

One more thing needs to be said about the 92-94 SEs with VE30DE engines. I have fitted the handful of 92-94 SEs that actually come through my partner's shop successfully with Cattman S/S Y-pipes; they didn't hang down lower than the cross member. But, obviously there are some that do (at the bend of the front downpipe). I'll admit to being temporarily stumped bedause I cannot determine the pattern of why this isn't consistant, but I'm working on it. Most importantly, I do deal individually with anyone who brings this issue to me. These pipes are made on a jig that captivates the part on the top and bottom (they are built downward from the flanges and there is a floor) and doesn't permit a variation of over .005-.010" in any critical dimension, so its not a matter of them being built at random lengths, some that fit and some that don't.

While acknowledging this aspect of the VE30DE-equipped 92-94 SE's I'll note that there is no similar issue -- or issues of any kind at all -- with the rest of the 89-94 VG30E-engine cars. Likewise, many of my VE30DE purchasers love their pipes too, but obviously not the few that are too long. I just can't figure out what is different about the ones that hang distinctly lower. If anyone can shed light on this, its certainly welcome.

Anyway, it seems kind of pointless to compete with something that is no longer for sale. The most interesting thing about the site is the horrible dyno figures for the 93SE they "tested". That engine's rated at 190hp, the car's a 5speed, and I'd expect that engine to put out at least 155-160hp at the wheels if it was stock, much less modified. What the heck is the deal? If that's a VE, its a sick puppy in the first place, put it out of its misery, don't fix it up. Maybe its the Mustang dyno; never heard of one of those and thought Dynojet was the industry standard. Perhaps its not computer based, judging from the output format. Its hard to put faith in a curve based on 6 data points; Dynojet curves are based on thousands. And, there should have been at least 6-8 runs with each part, to create a rigorous testing regimen.

Brian C. Catts

 

Brian,

While this new company may be in your "territory" I don't believe they've done anything wrong. Remember that you had to start-up also not very many years ago. I believe this new Y-Pipe and exhaust system will be a quality product, and I hopefully will be able to see first hand very soon.

Competition is good, and $450 (IMHO) is too much for a Y-Pipe. You remember Stillen vs. Cattman right? Hehehe. No harm intended by this post, just a friendly opinion.

-Kaleb

 

No one really knows about the new warp Y-pipe, and I'll stick with Cattman's on my mod list (so long as the price comes down) until more people try out the warp y-pipe. Nothing is really known of Warpspeed or whatever it's called, and Cattman has done many things for the Maxima and been good service and quality (just a little spendy).

 

Brian makes some valid points.. I'd like to see the several dyno comparison runs done on a dynojet dyno (indeed THE industry standard.. if theres anything else that can be compared).. I'm not sure I'll agree with the Brians statement about the stock Y being all cast-iron.. from what I can see of mine only the manifolds are cast iron and from there its steel or something.. I do think these guys are going to be directly in your realm of competition brian and I understand why your defending your product (as you have a right to do).. but as Kaleb points out $450 is waaayyyy too much for a Y IMHO...to be honest I'm not going to buy either one of you guys products so I'm completely unbiased... I believe/know I can build a Y that is on par both quality and performance wise with both Cattman and Warpspeeds products.. and could probably do it for 1/2 their costs.. but then again being mechanically adventurous and having some exhuast equipment at my disposal helps .. I think this will be an interesting "rivalry" to say the least.. and I would very much like to see the warp speed unit run on a dynojet...
HEY WARPSPEED GUYS!... how about coming to the Dallas/Midwest meet in early december and laying it down on a dyno in front of several maxima enthusiasts... nothing beats eyewitness accounts from the members of this BBS.. if your interested.. check out the thread running in the midwest forum

 

I'm not going to say I'm for or against anyone since there is no aftermarket exhaust for my max. But by looking at the dyno that car has to be an auto. Because if its a 5spd then either nissan under rated the VQ or the VE needs a tune up. However if it was an auto I could believe the power output. Also the curves don't look right and neither does the chart. By looking at the chart the warpspeed Y only increases power from 3800-5300. Remember its a VE with a 6700rpm redline. The auto would see maybe a slight edge vs a simular cattman Y when it upshifts. But once it passes 5300rpm its the same torque curve. Also what caused the huge power loss too, I mean it dropped from like 140hp to 100hp then back up again? I would suggest that someone get a clearer dyno of the Y pipe. IMHO the chart should be something like this. Also the chart almost looks photo shopped too . But as it stands if it offers simular performance for less then I say go for it. $350 for a SS is very cheap, SS headers run around $450+ for 4 cylinders and $1k for V6's.

 

Brian, the issue of the VE equipped Y pipes has to do w/ the Jet-Hot coated ones. I have not heard of anyone complaining about a ss version hanging too low. You will note in this pic, my Jet-Hot one is parallel but only after getting bent while hitting something. Maybe we should have talked more when I sent this one back.
<img src=http://members.home.net/nismonw/images/meet/aug0017.jpg>

 

When my brother told me of how he was having trouble with his (your) "Y" pipe I told him to send it to me and I would take a look at it. Since he knew we were already working on some Jeep exhaust systems he asked if we couldn't come with something ourselves for the Maximas which had better flow, clearance for his lowered car and was priced a bit better.

We decided we would talk with a couple of friends..one a mechanical engineer who loves Maximas, the other in the exhaust business building custom exhausts for 25+ years.
Anyway, having spent a lot of time looking, measuring, fitting and testing we believe we have come up with an alternative interpetation of an aftermarket "Y" pipe. We did not go into this with the intent to make a work of art or a killing, however we are offering a quality built stainless steel Y pipe and a mild steel version which are budget priced and fit the VG and VE 89-94 models.

We may dyno our gen 4 version (95-98) in Tulsa. I am not sure what brand the chassis dyno is, they said it was less than a year old, computerized and could print out a graph for torque and horsepower and that it was all they did at the business. I have no problem with anyone being there when we do it, we will post prior to test.

Brian: if you have questions about the manufacturer of the dyno we used why not call the number for RV Power Products(417) 272-3070. Unlike the number on your dyno results page it is a working number and the company is in business today. They have a technician who is quite competent and I am sure can expound on the virtues of his dyno vs the dynojet. I am sure there is some reason they picked the Mustang over the Dyno Jet.

I promise that even though you basically called my brothers car a piece of crap I won't kick your a**. Maybe it is. Sorry little brother....


Dallas

 

hmmm i think i smell a flame war brewing....
Dan

 

i agree danNy...its getting heated...

here's my take...i was going to get the cattman SS -Y but after speaking with many people that have had first hand experiences with cattman's Y's i felt that it would be in my best interest not to get it (yet)...now its nice to see that another company is willing to challenge cattman and now we can see if cattmans product truly is superior or not...as kaleb stated i would like to see more dyno runs and testing of the warpspeed pipe before i purchased one...hell if the numbers are proven and the price is right...i may just go with it...i guess we'll all see how this one pans out in the near future...

 

How professional.

 

ok this is how i look at it...
you have 2 similar products that does the same thing...only diff is quality and price.
IMHO the difference in HP between the 2 pipe are very small. i'm talking about 2-3 tops. the main gain is from the mandrel piping and the rear exhaust manifold outlet pointed towards the rear of the car and not front like the stock piece...well guess what they both have that. so you have a pipe with the flex and you have the pipe with the slip joint. is one better than the other?? (both sides and argue that one). cattman stopped production on his jethot pipes because he felt that it was a better idea to stay w/ the SS since he was having probs w/ the jet hots ones.
ok now with warp speed you get a choice of mild steel and SS. they both are priced cheaper than cattman units..(respectively).
price difference..
the warp speed cost significantly less compared to cattman. now are you getting a better pipe with the higher cost? (both sides can also aruge that). the warpspeed pipe have a lot of the same qualities of the cattman pipes with the exception of flex pipe in one and slip joint in the other. cattman believes that his slip joint yields more gain than the flex pipe. how much difference?? (someone show me some #s)
now the main thing is the fit and finish....(more fit).
who's going to crawl under your car and say "hey nice pipe"..no one!! (ok maybe 1 or 2), so it's bascially fit. i haven't heard anyone having fitment probs w/ the cattman SS units...but i dunno if they post on here. cattman said that there's no fitment probs what so ever. warp speed stated that their y-pipe fits "better" than the "other pipe"...
your the consumer..you make the educational choice by weighing the differences.
Dan

 

Decisions Decisions

 

My custom y pipe rules. My specs, my size, no hanging, only $200 installed. I don't care if its made from unobtainium its not gonna make a difference. Mines held up pretty good so far and has no hissing problems or whatever.

 

mike,
did they cut your stock one and re weld or did they put in a new one and kept the stock one in 1 piece???
Dan

 

The stock one fell apart when they took it off. Its a whole new piece..

 

didn't bryan get the SS version from cattman recently and had it hitting his sway bar?...cattman told him to dent it right?...i think i'd wanna pass on that situation...

 

Was it the pipe or worn motor mounts?

 

hey i'm not complaining. at least we have another company making stuff for the max. now if only we could get them to make some headers or something.

 

Well the two will duke it out but what i would like to know is will cattmann drop his s/s y prices to compete with the warpspeeds, because if there product show and proves than you will have alot of people buying there y pipes over cattmans because of the price difference.I wanted a cattmann y but the price is delaying things but if warpspeed lives up to there promisses then i will perchase there y sorry B.cattmann but $450 is kind of hard on the wallet at this time.

 

Could you tell us more about your y-pipe. How did you manage to get them installed so cheap? Did you design them your self or you did other modifications?

 

Do you seriously think it costs $450 to bend a piece of metal? Hah..

 

You are right, no, I don't. I also have a 93 4x2 toyota pickup V6 and I was talking to a local muffler shop and showed him specs for bigger exhaust for that truck and his prices were very close to yours.

 

haahaa...no but welding is a PITA.
so mike they made u new flanges and etc??
Dan

 

I think its the same flange but its not the stock size. They drilled it out or something. Its 2" through the primaries and a 2.5 inch collector..

 

Excellent post Mike! Now let's get a dyno of this new miracle metal and run comparisons of both old and new!

 

I was taking some measurements on Monday to see what kind of clearance issues we might have if we were to seriously consider offering some headers. In fact I have to go re-check some things tomorrow and take some photo's but we think we have found someone who will consider our ideas.

Based on the overwhelming number of VG vs VE cars and the fact that I can get at a VG car located close to me it seems the likely first potential candidate. We will keep you posted. Dan had good luck with his VE production pipe install today, he said it slipped right on. We are adjusting the VG pipe and reinstalling on Monday.

We will also offer an easy to install resonator should anyone require a quieter exhaust.

How about some pointers on what to avoid on a used max, I have been watching the papers and noticed a couple of 94's for around $5500-5900?

Dallas

 

Sound it out man... Un-obtain...ium

 

yeah boyeeeee!!
keep it at a reasonable price.
if you build it we will buy.
Dan

 

it hangs down quite a bit lower than my Xmember (its even in my sig.). Of course Cattman Performance has assured me they will be sending a call tag as soon as they have the revisions to the jig finalized. I am perfectly happy with this solution, as I wont have new suspension for quite a while. There is a link to the pics below.

 

Not that I know much about dynos, but the "advantage" of the Mustang is that it's a load-type dyno (Clayton anyone?).
There's a local tuner shop that uses one and they extoll it's virtues on their website http://www.awe-tuning.com

 

I looked through the Mustang dyno link, I thought it was very informative. We tried a Clayton Dyno as well but there was no way to tell exactly how much load was required for the hp to max out. We then found RV Power Products, looked over what they could do with the Mustang and went with them. We are hoping to find a setup where we can run my 2000 JGC V8 w/all wheel drive, we just installed a new cold air intake and it would be nice to see dyno results after having removed the complete 2.5" stock exhaust and replaced with 3" mandrel bent, turbo muffler and carsound 3" cat. Also going to try a split 2.5 exhaust from muffler back as there is not enough space for a true dual exhaust.

Enough of the Jeep stuff though we'll post what type of dyno is available in Tulsa on Monday.

We will have some catalytic test pipes available shortly if anyone has an interest. In 2.25" or 2.5" which will bolt right in.

Dallas