I'm trying to inspect the ring gear through the hole where the starter goes, to see if there is damage after this rebuilt starter burnt to a crisp.

Is there any easy way I can get that thing to move with my hand?

A mechanic recommended I put a socket on the crankshaft pully hex nut and turn it clockwise, but access seems tight, plus wouldn't that just tighten the nut more.

Another recommended I remove the spark plugs.

Any suggestions?

 

Your mechanic is on the right track. The "ring gear" you are referring to is the flywheel.


Before doing this you may want to disconnect the electrical harness to your fuel pump or pull the six spark plug wires from the distributor. You don't want the engine starting while you are turning it by hand because you are essentially mimicking the starter. Chances are low but still possible.

Go out and get a 27mm socket (Lowes). Try and get a socket that is 6 point if possible. That means the inside of socket should have six sides like a hexagon. This reduces the chances of stripping the bolt but in your case it shouldn't be an issue.

Attach it to a breaker bar (or your basic socket wrench if no breaker bar is available). Make sure the transmission is in neutral. Fit the socket over the crankshaft pulley bolt and start turning clockwise. You will essentially be turning the engine by hand. There is going to be pressure obviously but it should turn fairly easy. It will be even easier if the spark plugs themselves are pulled because you won't be building compression on each stroke but this is not required and I never do remove them when turning the crank.

You won't have to worry about overtightening the crankshaft pulley bolt. It is installed at 90 ft/lbs of torque (a s!@# load).

If it doesn't want to turn at all then stop and make sure you are in neutral. This will rotate the flywheel. You can turn it a little, inspect, and repeat.

Here is a picture looking through the passenger front wheel well with the splash cover off (if you still have it, I didn't):

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(picture is from a timing belt replacement guide posted recently by an org member)

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The crankshaft pulley bolt is not hard to get to. If you have the shield still you will need to remove it. You'll need to remove the front passenger tire as well.

 

27mm crankshaft nut. it's not gonna tighten the pulley any more than it already is

 

Thanks guys. Azure, thanks for your instructions. The part about my hand being potentially mauled is scary and thanks for warning me, safety always first.

Can you tell me what exactly I am looking for on the flywheel. Just from the visible portion, I see a leading edge that has a slight angle on it, to mesh with the starter gear easier. I also see slight burring, like sharp metal particle on a couple of the teeth, very tiny.

Is a certain amount of wear normal? Should I try and file the particles off?

I'm starting to wonder if this is what was preventing the starter from engaging intermittently, and is the source of the intermittent click sound. For instance, when the starter solenoid goes, the tooth gear in the starter pushes outward right? And tries to mesh with the flywheel.

Could those burred edges of the flywheel be preventing the gear from matching, and I get click, click, click as it hits metal to metal but doesn't mesh. Then sometimes the car will randomly start normally on other days because the burred edges aren't on every tooth of the fly wheel, so at times, it will mesh easy. Could this hypothesis be valid?

The 2nd refurb burnt to a crisp yesterday, and I'm picking up a brand new WPS starter tommorow, but could I be having other issues that CAUSED the 2nd refurb to run crazy and burn out?

I'm not sure if you read my other message, but basically, I turned the key the other night, it didn't start, then for 3 minutes (after I removed the key) the starter made a crazy motoring sound like something spinning, then loads of smoke came out of the engine bay, I thought my hoses were burning. The smoke was definately coming out of the tiny exhaust hose on the starter body at the bottom.

 

Sounds like your 2 nd refurb starter was dead on arrival - its relay didn't disengage when it was supposed to. It didn't do so most likely because of the excessive current going into the starter which probably had a short. Anyway, try to check how the replacement works by applying battery voltage between casing and relay contact - you should hear loud 'click' and see starter gear moved forward. When you remove the voltage they both should come to initial positions. If they do so you can proceed with installation.

 

Also, if you aren't comfortable or familiar with the electronics part of this you can take it down to your local autoparts store and have them test it. They have machines set up for this and you can actually watch them apply voltage and see the gear turning. They will tell you if it tests out properly. I have learned to always have them test my new alternators and starters before I leave the store. They might look at you like you have a **** on your forehead but you will know, before you leave the store (instead of after it's installed), that it is known good.

 

Glad I can help someone for a change

I usually wander in here with 20 questions looking like this =>

I have not had to deal with a damaged flywheel before

It should look pretty uniform all the way around however. It should look consistent.

Max_5gen has the right idea. If you can make sure that the new starter you have is performing as it should (by either the method he mentioned or the method I mentioned) then go ahead and install it. Give it a try and see if everything works as it should. If it does, yay! If it doesn't, and you now know the starter is good, perhaps there is an issue to be dealt with concerning the flywheel. That's what I would try but I am noooooo expert.

If indeed you did have to work on the flywheel, that can be a pain. You have to remove the transmission to get to the flywheel. Once the transmission is off, it's easy to get at and easy to remove. Don't start worrying about this unless you have to though...

 

So far so good Azure, I installed the 'new' starter tonight (not a refurb) and it seems to be working. This is the 3rd starter install, so lets see if it really was 2 crappy remans, or I have more serious issues.

Time will tell. I paid $200.00, and he wouldn't give me a part number but he told me it's WPS. I couldn't find anything on it, but it definately looks brand new - everything, including the metal housing. He claims it's from the US. I asked for the box but he wouldn't give it to me.

 

I didn't do this before I installed the brand new one today, but I will tell you something strange. After I bolted the starter on, I connected the positive spade connector to the starter, and as soon as I did that (even though both leads were REMOVED from the battery, I heard faint clicking sounds maybe from the starter...I couldn't tell. Could this be a short?

I don't want to burn out the brand new starter if a short is what could have appeared in the electrical system.

 

Definitely sounds like you have another short. check your irelays first then check your switch. One of them is probably sticking in the "start/on" position.

 

If you suspect that your interlock relay doesn't disengage then leave the thick wire to starter disconnected and connect only small connector. Then connect the battery and try to 'start' the car - you should hear 'click' from the starter relay/gear when you turn the key to START and back. If it makes only one click and doesn't let go afterwards you certainly should investigate that before connecting power wire to the starter.

 

I'm going to do these tests, but the starter has been working for a week now, maybe 50 starts now. Maybe 1 out of 10 starts, I hear a brief grinding sound quick after the car starts. Maybe the short preventing the starter gear from disengaging fast enough? Is it normal to hear a bit of a grind some times? It's like the sound when your car is started and you try to start it again..but it's very brief.

This new starter hasn't given me the click and no start problem yet, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Automar, I'm beginning to think that short you speak of may be somewhere, I'm also getting very strange behavior from the power door locks. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. This started a few days ago. Also, sometimes the keypad can open the power door locks, and sometimes it can't. Most of the time it can't now. The pad can still open the trunk though.

When the power door locks don't work, I hear a soft click(s) coming from behind the dashboard, but no movement at the doors.

 

You don't have to - if it ain't broke ...

I don't remember about faint clicks but when my locks were giving me trouble they did all kind of things, the craziest being: car locked itself without any warning; when you were pulling lock up sitting inside it was pulling it back down trying to keep you locked . This was all intermittent, weather dependent, slowly getting worse. The single reason for that was bad electrical contact inside lock mechanism. It has a sensor with sliding contacts and those contacts get dirty with time driving control circuit completely nuts. If you have tools/patience/skills in soldering/desoldering you can fix it yourself otherwise it has to be replaced.