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I'm taking the PathFinder on a couple hour trip in the morning to pick up my first 3rd gen Max. It's an SE, misses on two cylinders, has a lot of rust, and from the looks of it needs a lot of stuff put back to original. I've got the tow dolly and cash, so unless something completely unforeseen happens, it'll be in my parking lot tomorrow.
From what I'm reading, a lot of people have problems with shorted out coils and injectors blowing FET's in the ECU. I should be able to repair just about anything electrical or electronic on it. The body is going to need some help. The rust on the underside is rather scaly. Fortunately, I can weld and paint just fine, too.
I already have an 02 Maxima SE 6-speed (for sale, by the way!), but to be honest, the 3rd generation is the style I like better. I have an 01 Altima that I turbocharged, and it's the fastest and most silly fun car I've ever owned. I simply love the humble but sophisticated look.
Anyway, I always try to make a project log for things like this. I hope the moderators consider the idea of making a project logs category.
EDIT: Adding a project checklist
* Diagnose and Repair Misfire - Appears to be three bad injectors
* Clean/Repair/Replace Electrical Connectors
* Replace top-end gaskets, hoses, belts
* Remove and test alternator
* Test A/C for leaks and recharge
* Repair and install driver's side turn signal
* Remove Driver's Fender for Reshaping
* Remove Driver's Taillight and Inside Metal for Reshaping
* Revert exhaust (Sorry guys, I don't like it loud) - Walker SoundFX Universal 18101 is an excellent fit!
* Install a new stereo system (Sorry guys, I like it loud) - Simple JVC stereo, original Bose front speakers, Bose 6x9's from a Quest powered by a cheap Pyramid amp
* Various rust-repairs and preventives, under-coating where possible
* Source and Install Front Grille
* Source and Install OEM Airbox
* Un-sticky the back doors - It's less bad...probably will take a while of opening and closing repeatedly
* Fix power steering leak
* Fabricate cupholder between seats
* Replace (or remove) Fog Lights (Suggestions?) - Removed. I don't believe they were original anyway.
* Replace or repair turn signal switch
* Replace or repair window switches - They have been HEALED! *shrug* No idea what happened.
* Repair HVAC or force it to windshield for inspection purposes - It was a fuse, haha! And it passed inspection
* Odometer doesn't work
* Fuel gauge doesn't work (an unfortunate combination)
* Figure out why it's sometimes really strong and sometimes kinda boring
* Get trunk lid to open all the way on its own so it can stop cutting my head open
* Better interior, trunk, and engine bay lighting
List above to be updated as progress continues
Last edited by benvanderjagt; Nov 13, 2024 at 04:30 PM.
Reason: Progress, but project checklist is a little longer
It's home. (= The frame and body are actually in pretty good shape. I thought there would be a lot of rust. Here's what I have found so far.
The middle fuel injectors don't seem to be doing anything. I'm going to try to probe them in the garage to find out why, but it seems to be a common problem. There's a random unknown wire with (I think) 12v coming out of it. I cut the end, but I don't know why it's there. It's a bodge or bypass of some kind. *shrug*
Also, after idling for a little while, all of a sudden it had valvetrain sound on the back. If the RPM's go really low (500-ish), the rattle stops, so I kinda suspect bad lifters.
Following! I’ve also got a 93 SE 5 speed with similar issues you’ve described. Misses on a couple cylinders (not sure why) and does decent when cold but nearly undrivable when cold. I’ve suspected ECU, but hate to spend $$ if that’s not it. Had it 24 years but thinking it’s time to let it go.
I have a mantra that I try to repair by. "Diagnose, Diagnose, Diagnose, Diagnose, then Fix" I was hoping to get the car into the garage today, but it just didn't happen. I'll try to get it in tomorrow, and the first thing I'll try is to backprobe the connectors on the ECU to see if it's sending pulses to all six injectors. If it is, I'll check the signal at the plug ends and check the ground. (I also want to find out what the cut/splice was. I'd like to know what the purpose was.)
Keep in mind, we may have different problems causing similar results, but this is exactly why I like project logs. (-: Often, many people have the same obscure problem, and only by following the whole story can it be truly diagnosed.
I'm going to take back what I said above. My first step was going to be to backprobe for signal from the ECM to the injectors, but there are several connectors on the engine that merely *touching* causes changes in behavior. My first step is going to be to CLEAN as much as I can of the engine wiring harness. Many of the connectors are toast. I may need to source some new connectors.
I yoinked the hood off for quick access. What a difference it makes.
Many of the connectors look like this. I don't think anything is shorted, but it's going to need some major Deox-It and scrubbing. I hate these connectors...
Aaaand guess why I'm running on 3 cylinders. :-D I'm really happy to have a positive diagnostic for my problem. Three injectors don't draw any power. Three draw 3 watts and work fine. Fortunately, it doesn't seem that any of them have been shorted, so the ECM *should* be fine.
Time to order some parts and supplies. I'm going to start editing the first post with my project checklist, too.
I'm not familiar with this car, so it's taking me a little longer to take my time and make sure I do it right. So far I'm not really having any major problems with the rusty bolts, except one fuel injector screw head is completely stripped, and one ignition coil bolt is snapped off in the valve cover. I'm not totally sure how to get that one out. I could try welding a nut to the top of the stud, but I'm afraid the welder would mess up the aluminum around it. I could put it in the drill press and try to drill the hold out, but I imagine I'm going to mess up the threads. There's just barely not enough of the stud left to grab with anything.
New injectors and gaskets are due in next week, so I'm going to start working on other parts of the car and other cars. The speakers are completely blown out, and the rear doors are extremely sticky. I soaked the hinges and hold bars with white lithium WD-40, and it helped a little bit, but they're still do tough that my kids probably couldn't open and close them.
The rear spoiler.... *sigh* It's disgusting. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Maybe I'll toss a Dodge Spirit R/T spoiler on it and see if anyone notices! XD I would honestly just remove it, except that it has the 3rd brake light.
I'm rebuilding a QG18DE in a 2006 Sentra next to it, and I have a 2001 Altima that I turbocharged which needs some help, so I'll probably spend some time on those while I wait on parts.
While I wait for engine parts to arrive, I might as well start trying to straighten some bits out. (= Gentle coercion with a rubber hammer, replacing some rusty hardware, catching the rust before it starts, etc.
The Spoiler has deterioration issue, The ones towards the side of the car are held in by window glue, I think. The center is by screws. I'm think of a nice fastener for my because my was flopping ever since I was rear-ended at work. (Long story why it isn't fixed.)
Hmm, I was thinking of using 3M super weatherstrip adhesive. That stuff works well to hold side molding on most of the time. I would normally want to keep it original, but in this case I don't think the body is quite in condition to fully restore. I'm rather torn on it, but I'm not against putting a Prelude spoiler or something like that in its place. I think I'm going to remove the spoiler and relocate the 3rd brake light to inside the cab (where it is on GXE's). It won't get better with age, but perhaps a solution can be found to strengthen the existing one.
Well, I was hoping to be a lot further along by now, but I made the mistake of ordering the wrong injectors. Apparently I need the red ones. When I got her, and yes Maxi is a lady's name, she had one pink injector and five (mostly dead) red injectors. I'll be waiting about another week for the right set. I ordered Jecs remans instead of no-name new cheap-o's.
One thing worth mentioning.The injector on cylinder 3 with the pink top provides less fuel which is used for the single cam VG30E. So look into replacing that injector with the proper red top to make sure the engine runs correctly.
Wish this forum had upvotes, @jbbons25 . I actually got the whole set of six reman red Jecs injectors. They were due on Saturday, but they arrived today. Woohoo! I'm cleaning up the fuel rail and installing them now. I wish I knew where my zinc galvanizing spray went. I was going to see how it works on patchy gold anodized zinc coating on one of my scrap fuel rails. Instead, I'm just going to brush this one clean before installing.
The gasket set is expected today as well. Fingers crossed, I could fire it up today!
Good thing I didn't have to do head gaskets, since the package was FOLDED! It sure includes a lot, though. They threw in valve cover mounting grommets, fuel injector O-rings, and even a full size tube or RTV ultra gray! I do wish it had the fuel rail grommets, but I washed mine and cleaned the holes pretty well.
The fuel rail anodized zinc coating was coming off, so I etched them pretty well and coated them in "No More Drama" red. The fuel rail never gets hot enough to need VHT, so I went with a gloss enamel. I wire brushed the fuel injector caps. They're aluminum, so they're fine as brushed aluminum.
The rear valve cover is also just aluminum, so I'm brushing it. The front valve cover appears to be lacquered or similar. The badge came off alright. I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with it, but I'm leaning towards stripping it with B12 and brushing it to match. Fortunately that's really easy to figure out at a later date.
Work kicked my butt, so I didn't get terribly far, but here's my progress.
Oh, and I still have to figure out how I'm going to get that cylinder 2 (?) coil mounting bolt out of the valve cover. /-:
There's a crossover bracket for the two fuel rails to connect, but to be honest, I don't know why I shouldn't just use a hose between the two fuel rails. It will eliminate two 90's.
A little every day. /-: Well, some good news. Remarkably, the coil pack screw that was snapped off in the valve cover was so loose that I could pull it out by hand! The big parts are back on, but now come the 60 electrical connectors and 85 pieces of rubber hose.
And Nissan, I love you, but man do I hate your valve cover gaskets. I'm pretty sure I will have to redo the front one. Why couldn't you use inserts or O rings for the plug wells? Actually, I have a lot of "why's". It's early 90's. You get a pass...but VQ isn't a whole lot better. Most of the rest of your build philosophy is good. What other company lets you yank off the crank pulley by hand after removing the crank bolt? Serviceability is really very good, even in this much older design.
I still haven't driven this (or any other) 3rd Gen Maxima. I'm really eager to see if it's all worth the trouble. I had a 1987 Pontiac Grand Am SE V6 that this car is reminding me of. Funny, the 3.0 in that car was 125 HP, but I remember thinking it felt really strong.
I didn't brush the air plenum, because it's a LOT of work and doesn't usually come out very pretty. I did strip the vacuum pipe down and wrinkle-black it. (Not shown in this picture, since I need to replace all of the cracked hoses anyway.)
I don't see why I can't get the rest assembled and start it tomorrow. Oh, and hopefully I can do something nice with the hood. ;-)
It's together, and it runs smooth and strong! I even balanced a screwdriver on the air plenum while it was idling. ;-) Everything worked perfectly and smoothly right off the first start, so I'm tickled about that.
Buuut...I do still have a few things left to figure out. The shifter sticks. (It may also be low on transmission fluid.) The rear valvetrain sometimes starts rattling, but it seems to come and go with some sort of intelligence. Is the rear VVT going out of phase? I didn't notice any slack in the chains when I had the valve covers off. The hot/cold slider works, but the HVAC output control does not. It stays on face+feet, which is a problem, since it's required by VA law to be able to defrost the windshield. I'll get into the book and see if I can understand how the system works.
The steering stalk seems to be *almost* working. Turn signals and headlight/parking light work, pushing forward puts on the high beams, returning to center has high and low beams on. If I push the lever forward, it goes back to just low beams. That also won't pass inspection.
The power mirrors don't seem to do anything. The window controls on the driver's door will move the driver's window down and up, but it will only move the other three windows down.
The exhaust clearly has no cat converter. That's a delightful smell! I just don't want to smell it when I'm waiting at a bank drive-through. ;_; So, I'll be adding a cat. I'll also be adding a muffler and a resonator.
The radiator core support is reeeally rusty. There aren't any holes yet, so I think I can save it.
Honestly, though, it's just about ready to drive. Other than a few fairly little things, I think it's good to start driving around on a daily basis. Errr, I mean it doesn't have a hood...or a fender...or insurance and license plates...or most importantly, a stereo.
Sooo, my planned little bonus was going to be to install 5th gen hood shocks. I think it's appropriate for this model.
Anyway, I'm going to bed happy with my progress and smelling like exhaust
Whew, the headlight switch design is like something out of the 1960's. I'll try to refurbish it, but it's tempting to figure out how the newer Renault style works and try to convert it.
Anyway, the hood props work pretty nicely. I used a couple of Ubiquiti radio mounts and made upper ball mounts for 5th gen struts. It's a lot easier than trying to find 3rd gen struts. It fits nicely, opens and closes really smoothly, and put the hood up in service height! At some point, I'm going to fabricate a lighting system. My old 1991 Dodge Shadow had a craptastic hood light, and replacing it with an LED strip was one of the best things. I'll probably do that to the trunk as well.
The turn signal lens isn't bad at all. It's just missing the teeeeny fragile plastic tubes that held it onto the fender. Instead, I attached these white PVC pieces (from Ubiquiti POE injectors). I tried cyanoacrylate, but it popped right off. Soo, I did it again with long thin films of JB Weld. That ought to do it!
Gah! I'm itching so bad to take this on the road! At this point, I don't even care if it's a good car. I just want to put it on tax-funded asphalt!
Awesome thread! I'm glad to see the car is in the hands of someone who is good with electrical troubleshooting. I owned a VE 3rd gen for a few years a while back, you can find my build thread in the Member's Rides section (where most build threads are located):
Oh man, I'm going to be referencing your thread to work on mine! o: Looks like we covered some of the same ground. Also, those Diamond Grip gloves are the best. I see you have the Toyota filter. I get random intermittent valve tap on the firewall bank, so I guess I have the VTC problem. If it's intermittent at this point, should a Toyota filter most likely fix the problem, or am I likely going to need to tear it down and replace the phaser?
@95maxrider Hah, I'm still reading through your thread and finding more similarities. I was going to make new door baffles for the speakers and ditch the 4's, and the stereo I was going to install is also a JVC. Perhaps I should stop work for a moment and read through your (and other similar) forums before getting back to wrenching on mine.
@95maxrider Hah, I'm still reading through your thread and finding more similarities. I was going to make new door baffles for the speakers and ditch the 4's, and the stereo I was going to install is also a JVC. Perhaps I should stop work for a moment and read through your (and other similar) forums before getting back to wrenching on mine.
I only had my 3rd gen for 3 years, and I purposefully spent as little as I could on it, which is a very different approach to how I treat my I30. There probably aren't many 3rd gen build threads, but yeah you should find and read them before going too much further on yours.
As for your VTC issue, it's possible fresh oil and the Toyota filer will help, but don't get your hopes up too high! I like to run some LiquiMoly Engine Flush through every new (used) car I buy, so you may want to run that before you do your oil change in case it helps free something up.
That's kind of my philosophy on this one, too. I'm trying to make it a nice daily using as much labor, fabrication, and caution as possible. I've got my 85 New Yorker for which I will spend $50 on a replacement sticker, haha! Well, I'm fighting with the local government, and the VA DMV won't let me register this Maxima, so I guess that affords me some extra time to work on it before it goes on the road. Maybe I'll put the pieces back on the KA-t Altima while I wait.
I was reading that the VTC problem could be "patched" by grounding the solenoid. I'm wondering if that forces it to stay at the shorter or longer intake duration. (Unfortunately, all of the links I've found in the forums regarding this trick are dead.) It sounds like a not too terrible job to replace/rebuild. I'm just not sure if I can still get the parts. I'll keep reading and "get there when I get there".
That's kind of my philosophy on this one, too. I'm trying to make it a nice daily using as much labor, fabrication, and caution as possible. I've got my 85 New Yorker for which I will spend $50 on a replacement sticker, haha! Well, I'm fighting with the local government, and the VA DMV won't let me register this Maxima, so I guess that affords me some extra time to work on it before it goes on the road. Maybe I'll put the pieces back on the KA-t Altima while I wait.
I was reading that the VTC problem could be "patched" by grounding the solenoid. I'm wondering if that forces it to stay at the shorter or longer intake duration. (Unfortunately, all of the links I've found in the forums regarding this trick are dead.) It sounds like a not too terrible job to replace/rebuild. I'm just not sure if I can still get the parts. I'll keep reading and "get there when I get there".
Sucks about the defroster not working, I hope you can figure that out soon.
Yeah, old links can be tricky. Try to get well acquainted with the advanced search function, you'll probably want to limit your searches to the 3rd gen section.
It's decent! It's my slowest car, but that doesn't mean it's slow. The exhaust is WAAAY too loud. I hate those little coffee can mufflers. Anyone want it? :-D
The odometer doesn't work. The speedo does, so I'm guessing the gears in the dash are stuck or broken. I'm not sure how this one is actuated.
I think I massaged the headlight switch well enough to make it work and pass inspection. I doubt I'll find another one any time soon, so if it completely dies, I'm going to convert it to something else.
The behavior of the shift lock is even more perplexing. The brake unlocks the shifter, and I can shift to and from any position as normal. Once I drive and then stop, the shift lock doesn't disengage, and I can't put it anywhere other than neutral and drive. Fortunately there's a big red shift lock release lever. I *could* just zip-tie it into the unlocked position for now, but I'd rather just figure out what on Earth it's doing.
I ordered the Toyota filter, and I have my LiquiMoly and 5 quarts of synthetic ready. The filter should be in on Thursday. In the mean time, the behavior of the VTC clack is also perplexing. I started it and let it idle for about 15 minutes, and it didn't clack. Later, I drove around, gunning the throttle and having a good time, and it didn't clack. Later, I took two short trips, and it clacked like it was out of oil. Later, I drove around and it was clacking on-and-off about every ten seconds. Does the thing have a brain? o.o Well, we'll see what happens after the flush and new filter, but I suspect I'll be planning some downtime to pull the sprockets off later on.
All in all, though, it works! It never gave me the feeling that it was going to fail, despite that I think it sat for five years before I got it.
Fixed the HVAC...there was a missing fuse. It still failed inspection. One of the high beams didn't turn on for the inspector. It's a little crunchy. I have another light switch coming in. I could show them how to do it, and it will *probably* pass, but eh... Also the 3rd brake light, which I moved to the back deck, decided to stop working. A little Deox-IT and some LED bulbs, and it's right back.
They said the brake rotors are rusty but passable. I looked up a set of rotors and youch! They're spicy! I might have to invest in some more machine shop tooling so that I can turn them myself. Nobody around here turns rotors anymore.
Aaand the stereo. I hate Bose. The door speakers are actually not in terrible shape, but they do look very brittle. The 6x9's were completely gone. I replaced them with 6x9's from a Nissan Quest with Bose audio. I couldn't find a correct wiring diagram for this car anywhere. After many dead-end searches, I decided to just start to test each individual wire. Well, the tricky one was the Bose amp turn-on, which I believe is green and yellow with black dots. (I'll try to remember to confirm this, in case someone else runs into this thread looking for the answer.) The speaker audio wires were actually not too hard to figure out. They tended to be bundled close, with the black wire as negative. I hooked up the rear-left speaker, and I thought, "Wow, this sounds great! Well, it sounds okay. Actually, it sounds terrible. Now it smells terrible." Apparently the amp had one last hurrah! The rear-right didn't work at all. No problem, I'll run RCA wires and an amp. I hooked up the little tiny 4" Bose door speakers, and I must say I'm really impressed with how good they sound! Needs tweeters, though. I still can't believe they put the Bose name on a 4 channel full-range 1-way speaker system.
The VTC clack seems to only happen at a warm restart and only for a while. I'll run LiquiMoly again for the next oil change. If it still doesn't clear up, I'll start prepping for the eventual tear-down.
I've also started attacking the rust as I find it. I'm using a combination of Rust Reformer and Cold Galvanizing compound, first scraping off as much rust as possible. At some point, I'll have to take the entire interior, suspension, possibly frame, and gas tank out to properly treat the body.
Oh, and the 2" Ford Ranger muffler works great! It's so much quieter! I also started gradually replacing bulbs with LED's. I've been getting Alopee brand soft-white bulbs, and they look *just* like regular bulbs!
Little by little. (-: I'll try to get pictures of any interesting teardowns.
Glad to see you're making fast progress! Where are you looking for rotors? I see rear rotors for as little as $8 and fronts for $14 on RockAuto.
As for hard to find and NLA (in the US) OEM parts, check out https://www.amayama.com/en . They're located in Japan, but parts are often a fraction of what they would be here and shipping really isn't bad.
eBay and Amazon were the only places I found with the right ones. AZ and so forth have the GXE parts. I don't know what the difference is. Maybe it's just a hub swap away and I'll be able to use GXE parts. The cheapest set of four I could find was a little under $250.
I've got kind of a light work day today. I was thinking of pulling out all of the seats, carpet, and trim. I want to run wires to the back, and I really need to look for any remaining rust spots. I think the fuel tank is under the seat, so I can check the fuel level sending unit at the same time. I'll bet the float disintegrated and fell off like they always do.
eBay and Amazon were the only places I found with the right ones. AZ and so forth have the GXE parts. I don't know what the difference is. Maybe it's just a hub swap away and I'll be able to use GXE parts. The cheapest set of four I could find was a little under $250.
I've got kind of a light work day today. I was thinking of pulling out all of the seats, carpet, and trim. I want to run wires to the back, and I really need to look for any remaining rust spots. I think the fuel tank is under the seat, so I can check the fuel level sending unit at the same time. I'll bet the float disintegrated and fell off like they always do.
Ok, new problem. >_> Performance is sometimes unimpressive (feels like a V6 attached to a tractor trailer) and sometimes surprising (feels like a VQ). It seems to be throughout the drive. In other words, I'll start it one time and it will be awesome and responsive and smooth no matter how much I drive...then another time I'll start it and drive it, and it will feel like I'm pulling a parachute the entire time. One time when it was performing badly, I pulled over, cut it off, started it again, and it was fast. These intermittent, error-free problems are hard to diagnose. /-:
Passed inspection though. I got the carpet up to run some stereo wiring, and I found the foam to be FULL of water. The gas tank is reeeally rusty, too. I might need to replace it or at least remove it and galvanize the exterior. The fuel gauge works, so it's almost definitely the sending unit. That's for another day.
It's got a sunroof, though it appears to be draining normally. I haven't pulled the passenger side carpet up yet. (I hate sunroofs!) One thing I've noticed about a lot of sunroof-equipped cars/vans is that they drain if they're driven, not when parked. It's likely it was parked since 2019 when the previous inspection sticker was stuck on it.
I started cutting and welding the rust on my trunk lid. I got pictures...but I seem to have lost my phone! It isn't going super, but I'll have some smooth lines here soon. I keep blowing holes through the steel with the welder...
The VTC click keeps changing behavior. I'm very hopeful that another flush will do it, but it always goes away with just a little extended driving.
The transmission..... I'm scared to say "the transmission", because apparently this is a weak spot. The question is, does the RE4F04V suffer the same early failure as the RE4F02A? I got a filter kit and fluid, and I was going to Trans Tune it before changing. I doubt it has ever been changed. Is it like the turbo versus non-turbo versions of the legendary A413, where one is made of pringles potato chips and the other is made of diamond? I'm still trying to figure out if I should be doing a shift kit. I will say that the TC is way too low stall for this motor. It should be a good half a grand higher at least! The only problem I'm having is that it dwells in 1st for way too long...and as far as I can tell, there's no adjustment.
I wish I could help with info on the trans, but 3rd gen auto trans experts are few and far between. Aaron92SE probably knows the most, but I don't think he's been active for some time on the forums. You could try to reach out to him via his company NWP Engineering.
Not really. I had run LiquiMoly, and the VTC clack was completely eliminated. I had done fresh oil and Toyota filter the day before, and the old oil was clean. It started rattling as if the lifters had dried out. I popped the oil cap with it running, and it was slinging oil, so that all seemed to be normal. A couple minutes later, bam! Engine halted.
I'm stripping it for parts, so let me know if you need something. I'll probably tear the engine apart, partly to satisfy my curiosity and partly to salvage whatever may be good. I believe those heads have proprietary valves if I recall correctly. I did check the junkyards, but basically they start at $500 and go up, and they're all a day's travel away. If the body were perfect, I'd probably swing it, but it's just not worth doing an engine. It's better to have the parts for everyone else.
I did. And I also still don't know what caused the problem! The chains were intact. The body wasn't in good enough shape to invest in a motor to bring it back to driving.
That's disappointing, did you ever tear the engine apart ? In my experience, the I've seen many engines go in VE manual trans cars, & its almost always a timing chain problem. I know you said yours were intact. I'm just curious as I just rebuilt my VE. Mine had a broken timing chain from a loose idler gear, which obviously wreaked havoc on the engine. The body was in near perfect condition though so i reman it with a junkyard block....