Why is it that everyone thinks the auto can never perform like a standard? And then people go "oh poor me" and do nothing about it. It IS possible. I posted this in another post, but here it is again. Get the VB Mod, get a matched-to-mods torque converter, and have the computer reprogrammed to shift at the RPMs you want it too. Basically, you then have an auto that performs pretty dang close to a standard, and maybe, just maybe a little better depending on what you have done to the transmission.

 

There's no avoiding the increased drivetrain losses with an auto, though. All other things being equal, a manual transmission is always going to deliver more power to the wheels.

 

Then why is it that I have seen a Camaro w/LS1 and beefed up 4L60E beat a Camaro w/LS1 and a strictly rebuilt(not beefed up) T-56? Both were stock and it was not the driver of the T-56, because come on, it was John Lingefelter. The whole point of it was to prove that automatics of today are more than able to perform if equipped right.

 

Yes, but Corvetts auto trannies are far more efficient then ours. If I remember seeing right, ours is like 25% where as the auto tranny of a Corvette is like 18% while their manuals are around 16%. Our manuals are right around that too. We get on average or 10% power loss just by having auto as opposed to a vettes 2-3%. MUCH greater difference.

An auto maxima with the same mods as a 5 speed will never have as much power to the wheels, plain and simple.

 

You are correct, for drag racing an automatic can be made to deliver significantly better numbers than a manual. However, for twisty roads, the control of the engine/power/chassis relationship that a manual affords can never be achieved with an auto.

Also, all those mods you listed (vb mob, TC, and reprogrammed TCM) are not as widely available for the Maxima as they are for the F-body (to use your example). Excepting the VB mod, those mods for the Maxima will be essentially custom pieces...VERY expensive. By the time you have modded your engine with the typical bolt-ons and spent all that $$ for Auto trans related mods, your Maxima will be as quick as a bone stock 5-speed Maxima.

For the Maxima, one can safely say that the Auto will never catch up to the 5-speed, dollar-for-dollar, mod-for-mod.

 

Those SS/Z28 and Vette auto tranny's are a different breed. The shift better and shift quick, that is why the auto times in those cars are as quick as the manuals. Of course you have more control with the manual as you always will.

 

Is it not said that "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" Money was never an issue in what I posted. Another problem I have with alot of the members on this board is the fact that they are unwilling to do things besides bolt-ons. I am a member of Sportruck.com and several of the members over there have LT1 or LS1 Fullsize or Mini Chevrolets and GMCs. I'm just saying if you want something to perform better change what you have, don't complain about it. As far as the TC is concerned, check out ProTorque they can custom build you one. Any shop that can reprogram a chip for a Honda can do it for your Max. And I have read several times that you can get Don't VB Mod. The whole point of this post was to get the Auto to where it is more efficient. The reason it is not efficient now is because of the internals and programming. Change those and voila.

 

will a 5 spd. conversion be the same as a stock 5 spd.? mod to mod, $$ to $$?

 

I would think so, unless you upgraded the tranny when having it installed.

 

You can't really compare the F-body auto to M6 like the maxima auto vs M5. The GM auto has a 3.06 1st gear so that would allow it to jump off the line. Also stock for stock an auto would get pulled from a roll vs the m6. However with a good torque convertor an auto could leave a M6 off the line. Generally in F-bodies, the auto's see better ET's because of the TC + gearing, however the M6s have higher trapspeeds and are quicker from a roll.

I want to see someone put a 4.1 gear in an automagic maxima. That would kick so much ***, especially if there was a high stall convertor. However everyone wants to get a cone filter or exhaust instead .

 

A 5spd conversion would cost far less than a VB mod, custom TC, and custom programming for an Auto.

As for reprogamming, it's not that simple. Correct programming requires extensive knowledge of the system and the program. Not just any shop can do it. It takes lots of research and development to get it to work properly. Not "any honda shop" can do custom, one-off programming of a Nissan TCM.

 

I love it when people take the logic that since they've seen 9-10 second drag cars with automatics, that by default means that automatics can be made as fast if not faster than the manual version of their car, especially when it's a ~15-16 second (stock) car to begin with. I especially love it when people get bent out of shape about it.

I'd think an automatic on a drag monster would definitely be the way to go. In 9 or 10 seconds, putting that much power to the pavement, you a) really don't have that much time to make shifts and b) really should be concentrating your efforts on keeping control of the more-than-likely-rwd car. In a car that runs 15s? Control isn't a big factor, and with all that extra time, you get the added pleasure of launching & shifting yourself. This is fun on the strip, but moreso in daily driving (provided you're not backed up in rush hour traffic).

The "battle" between driving an automatic transmission and a manual transmission isn't fought purely on the grounds of straight-line acceleration (not to mention that if you spent the same amt of money modding the at as described above, you could have quite a quick 5-speed max). If you're in love with your AT so much, I suggest you bask in your joy and leave it at that. Both have their positives and minuses, and are used, enjoyed, and/or disliked according to these.

 

Please point out where I mentioned any sort of 9-10 second drag car.

 

He was just making a point. Calm down.

 

He insults me by making a gross overexageration of what I said. I know what I posted. I may be a newbie here, but I have been messing with trucks for 5 years now. There is a difference if you upgrade your tranny internals. I know, I did it to my truck and could tell a difference.

 

i like auto... keeps hands free for other things

 

Whats the price range on converting an auto to a 5 spd and the price range of a VB mod and all that. I have a auto 99 maxima and its pretty boring to drive but it gives civics and integras in my area a run for there money. Im wondering how much of a difference is auto vs. manual?

 

Manual transmissions are faster for cars in the 14 and 15 sec bracket. However, I believe the faster you go the better the auto does against it and eventually is faster.

If found this out as soon as I started to run in the mid 13 sec bracket and now I don't think a similarily equipped manual Max can beat my auto.

I have run a 1.8 60' and I haven't seen another car manual or auto beat that yet and I don't have any vb mod or high stall convertor etc. People who want to go fast should spend their money on HP mods first and leave the trans alone until later.

 

Well the auto-to-5spd conversion can be done for about $1500.

VB Mod $450
High stall converter $at least $500
Custom TCM programming (Who knows how much $$, but it will be more than the $550 difference)

 

Even with the vb mod, high stall convertor and custom TCM programming, eventually you still have a 4 speed transmission. Besides the lower drive train loss, you also have one more gear ratio to work with and can stay in the power band better with a 5 speed manual transmission. I think this is the main reason the manual Maximas are faster then the autos, although Jime makes a good point about the 60' times.

Even so, if you look in the 1/4 mile timeslips forum, there is a 95 auto Max running a 13.77 quarter mile time at 105 mph with a 2.10 60' (70 shot nitrous), and there is a 96 manual running a 13.69 @ 103.16, 2.17 60' (60 shot nitrous). Both cars have basically the same mods (nitrous, intake, y, catback). The auto is quicker off the line, but the manual is able to catch up and beat it (although at a lower trap speed), and I think the reason is the narrower gear ratios the 5 speed provides.

 

Nice post. Well put and informative. Thanks.

 

I have a question about the 5 speeds, do they actually get into 5th gear in the 1/4 or are they still in 4th?

Before I got down to the low 13's I was finishing at the top end of 3rd but now that I running in the 105 mph bracket I am well into 4th before the end of the 1/4 but a lot of that is due to the 22" tires giving a much lower gear ratio. My speedo is showing something like 125 mph.

 

The auto tranny in the Maxima just suck. I used to have two domestic cars with an auto tranny, their auto trany were much better than the Maxima. I hardly felt any lag whatsoever plus the shifts were pretty good. I think even the auto tranny in the Camrys and Accords for example are better than ours. I have ridden and driven both btw so I know. Oh well. Only thing I can't stand is the darn lag. Even with the VB upgrade(which doesn't help much at all), the lag is still there.

 

But you haven't been posting on boards long have you?

Your debating skills and etiquette leave much to be desired.

(Ian takes his stick and pokes the hornet's nest with it)



IanS

 

A couple of points;
1) The reason that auto's are popular in bracket racing has nothing to do with horspower to the ground and everything to do with consistancy.
2) I've owned 6 Nissans in the past ten years and I can tell you one thing, ALL of Nissans trannys suck. I have to admit though, the only auto tranny that I've had that was worse than the one in my Maxima, was the one in my '67 Nova (powerglide, yuch!).
3) Yes, from an engineering standpoint it could be possible to narrow the gap between the Nissan auto's and manual's considerably but it would take more resources than are available to us and we all know about the lack of aftermarket support issue.
4) CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?! One car, one love!

 

Are you one of those people that plays with themselves while driving?


j/k

 

i agree with this... to add, i am auto, but believe that most maximas will not do any better than 14's. ofcourse there are quite a few kicking some a**. if you plan on beefing it up into the low 13's and under an auto may be the way to go. i have a VB mod on my auto tranny and yes it did help (much quicker and harder shifts) but with that i could have but a VI on a 5speed and be running high 14's where as my auto right now with a few mods is low 15's. all in all, its all preference this a stupid argument. i wanted a 5speed but i thought the deal i got on my auto was to good to pass up. im happy with my purchase, you all should be as well

 

I'm looking forward to when CVT's will be common in the market place. As we have read, they are supposedly as fast as a manual, and smoother than an auto.

Peace

CVT's will be the next rage, even though the driver is still not changing gears him/herself.