Does anyone know if the 4th gen Max factory security system has
a mode in which the anti-theft relay would be energized resulting
in the starter not cranking, but no other sign of trouble? I
would have thought the only situation when the relay would be
energized was if the system detected a opened door/hood/trunk
switch such as in a forced entry. Wouldn't this also cause
the horn to sound and lights to flash? It's not clear to me
from looking at the FSM.

Here's how this came about:

After running some errands that included normal driving, parking
and starting , I parked it in my driveway. After about 20 min. or
so, I decided to move it closer to my garage to do some work on it.
It failed to start. All dash light came up as usual, but the
starter would not crank. I tried several times but nothing. I didn't
even hear the starter solenoid click. This had never occured before
but I've only owned the car for 3 months. It's a 95 SE 5sp.

So, break out the old FSM and find the wiring diagram for the starting
circuit. Power comes from the battery to the ignition switch and
then through the anti-theft relay to the starter solenoid (Canadian
car). Pulled the relay and measured 12 volts getting to the relay
when the key is turned to the start position so the ignition switch
is good. The relay checked out OK in that the coil showed some
resistance and the contacts showed continuity. The relay passes the
starting signal to the solenoid when the relay's coil is not powered.
In other words, it's a normally closed contact. So if this relay was
the problem in that it was not passing the start signal to get
to the solenoid, then it was probably being energized, as that
is it's purpose, to inhibit starting if the anti-theft system
detects a problem.

Next step was, with the relay out, put a jumper wire across the
relay socket contacts for the start signal. The car started fine.
Removed the jumper and replaced the relay and no start. After opening,
closing, locking, unlocking doors, trunk and hood and attempting to
start the car many times, it decided to start normally. The problem
has not recurred, but that is little consolation. Because the relay coil
has 12V on one of it's terminals all the time, and the other terminal
is grounded by the control module to energize the relay, unintentional
grounding of the circuit (short) due to a cut in wiring insulation
could cause the relay to energize as well.

A search indicated a NTB (technical bulletin) on shorting
out of wiring inhibiting cranking. Not sure how to get the
NTB's without paying. I save a lot by doing my own work. The
real problems are usually diagnostic in nature.

Anyway, just some anecdotal info for the archives. I will run
the diagnostic to see if any codes come up.

 

take it to an electrician or something.. any information given in this thread would open up the ability for people to steal our cars

 

Replace the Solenoid on the starter.

You did some nice trouble shooting there. You had signal right to the starter, thats where it died. But when you jumped the solenoid, if I'm reading your post correctly, your car started. Like back in the old days on GM cars when the solenoid was on the fire wall. Easy to jump the car from under the hood and determine your starter was still good.

Your car is starting again, but give it some time and it's gonna give you trouble. I think you can get the part form your local Auto Zone.

 

What I did was bypass the anti-theft relay and the car started OK.
When relay was replaced, no start. This means the signal was only
getting to the starter solenoid when the relay was bypassed.
I believe something was causing the relay to energize and open
the contacts. The question is, is that a normal mode of operation,
to inhibit cranking but show no other symptoms? If not, then an
intermittant short may be at work.

 

Hummm I must have read that wrong the first time......

Well I guess the anti theft system works.

 

Well, the Max has cranked over OK for the last week but
failed to crank today after being left in a parking
lot for about 4 hours. I was equiped with a jumper wire
for just such an event. Unfortunately, this did not help
this time. The notion that the previous no cranking episode
was the fault of the anti-theft relay inhibiting the
crank signal was a red herring.

After wiggling the wiring harnesses a bit and still no
cranking, there was not much more I could do as we were
at a parking lot with no tools. I decided to try a jump
start by pushing the car and dumping the clutch. My wife
and I pushed but could only generate a very little engine
turnover and definately not enough to start it. I then
tried the starter again and she fired up OK.

Drove home and parked in the driveway. The car would
start OK with multable tries. I decided to clean the
cam sensor and the crank pos sensor as they are easy
to get at. After replacing those the starter would
not work again. Measured voltage to output of anti-theft
relay which means voltage to starter solenoid if there
are no breaks or shorts. No time today to take off
intake stuff to check if voltage actually getting to
the solenoid. The thought occurred that a stuck solenoid
plunger could account for the symtoms (no clicking of
solenoid when key turned to crank position). I rapped
the solenoid a few times with a tool and now starts OK.

I'm thinking now that its the solenoid hanging up from
dirt or dried grease. Ill take off some intake stuff tomorrow
and check the solenoid and connections.
So njmaxseltd, your diagnosis of a starter solenoid
problem may be right on. Thanks and I'll post any new
developments.