d_warner

OK, ok. I know there is ALOT of controversy as to whether or not the 5th gen plenum will fit on the 4th gen VQ motor. I have taken pics from various angles of each manifold and TB. I even installed the 5th gen strut bar on my 4th gen to see if the hood would still close. It does. Even though the bar clears the 4th gen plenum by about 2 and a half inches. I've included those pics on page 6 of my homepage, and I just wanted a little CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM regarding this upgrade. I am not the only one who is considering this. And no, I don't want to do an MEVI. Here's the link to the page where the pics are located. I also noticed (looking at the last pic from the VQpower MEVI install page) that the 4th gen lower manifold already hass all 6 bolt holes in place for the 5th gen plenum although only 4 are used. Just a thought.

David

BTW rate my ride while you're there. Nothing fancy, but it's not too bad.

Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

why dont someone juss take the plunge and try to install the 5th gen manifold on and end all the controversy? mmmm sounds good to me!

NISMO808

iTrader: (2)

It looks like you have two cars going by your sig. I would say on a nice sunday afternoon invite some maxima guys to help you swap em out just to see. I think you're in the best position to do pioneer this mod, since you have a 5th gen already. Most of us would have to order parts which would be more of a gamble. Just my .02 cents

Goodluck.

96BLUMAX

iTrader: (3)

I would be up for seeing if it would work. How much do you think it would cost to get all the stuff from a 5th gen?

MAXIN

iTrader: (5)

I think someone is, hal's mevi is for sale

Dave B

More power to you, but the 5th gen intake manifold is far more complicated of an install plus the manifold will be bumping the firewall when your motor rocks in the engine mounts. Things you've have to consider are:

1) The throttle body. You'll have to use the 5th gen TB and will it work with the 4th gen's cruise, cable length, etc?

2) How are you going to activate the butterflies? The 5th gen system is far more complicated. I wouldn't even now where to start.

3) You'll have to use both the upper and lower intake manifold which equal big bucks.

4) Vacuum lines? You'll have to rig a bunch of new fittings to make it work with the 4th gens.


The MEVI is made for the 4th gen and it fits like the stock piece. You might find an extra 10fwhp extra from 6200-6500rpms, but that's about it.



Dave

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Wow Dave, you are the ultimate cynic, aren't you?

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

I've never really heard much here, but some have looked into the 5th gen VI. The parts may work with a lot of work, but the parties involved in the research dropped it and went with a MEVI.
-hype

Dave B

Maybe or maybe not

For the amount of work involved, I don't see why you'd want to go with the 5th gen manifold on the 4th gen motor. The MEVI has peak power occuring at ~6100rpms whereas the 00-01 peak occurs at 6400rpms. The 00-01 VQ does make about 15fwhp over the 4th gen VQ, but you've got to remember the 00-01 also has different cams and a better muffler. All this adds up. I look at it this way, you can spend $650 on the entire MEVI setup or you can spend well over $1000 getting a new 00-01 upper and lower manifold from Nissan USA plus all the headaches of installing the thing. Your chances of getting a used intake manifold would be pretty rare because most shops sell the engines whole, not in parts.



Dave

hakk97se

Well, I think realistically you could find 5th gen intakes a lot cheaper than through Nissan USA. I think a major problem besides bolt-up is how to activate the butterfly valves as in the 5th gen, they are activated by signals coming from the ECU. Personally, I would tap into that line and watch what it's doing at various places in the RPM range. Then build yourself a circuit to match or something else. It does seem like quite a project given the availability of the MEVI these days....

Anachronism

Top blue line is 5th gen

d_warner

Looks like the entire band is consistantly higher. Looks good to me. Now thats with a milder cam too. Question is though, is the band smoother b/c of the milder cam? Or will the band still be jumpy, but higher with the 4th gen cam. This is what no-one knows, b/c no one has done it. I know personally of an org member about to attempt this VERY soon. That's one reason I posted pics, was so he could see the main set up.

Enjoy!

David

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

I’m really interested in this. My reason is that there will probably never be an ECU out for us 99.5’s that would let us take advantage of the MEVI, as we use the 2000+ wiring harness for the ECU. But that newer wiring harness might make this a blessing in disguise b/c this manifold swap would be more of a plug-and-play than it would be for a 95-98. Any thoughts on how us 99’s & 99.5’s could do this easier than the 95-98's?

Possibly we could just get a 2000+ ECU & manifold at the junkyard?

Or maybe just the whole motor & ECU?

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

Swapping the whole motor/ECU would probably be the only way. The 5th gens have different injectors, and probably many different sensors as well.

I'm interested in the project, but I just think like Dave that it'll take a lot more effort than you think. If it was easy there's no reason everyone would have gone through the Middle East and Japan to get parts when things could be purchased here in the US. If you really want an expert opinion talk to Mardigras.
-hype

Dave B

The problem I have with that graph is:

1) No one has dynoed with just the MEVI as the only mod therefore you had to guessimate the numbers.

2) The stock USIM curve looks low to me. I've seen a bonestock GLE dyno 159fwhp and a 96 SE 5 speed with just an intake do 173fwhp so I firmly believe many bonestock 5 speeds will do around 170fwhp stock. I'd venture to say the MEVI 4th gen is cranking out closer to 175fwhp stock.

Nothing personal, I just don't agree with the numbers you got. I'm guessing you used Russ' stock 2001 SE 5 speed numbers (~183fwhp). FYI, I was there when he dynoed and he dynoed on the same machine I run on and the same one for the GLE/SE I listed above.


Dave

Anachronism

I combined two charts by SteVTEC, they where all I could find to work with . I pasted together the 5th gen line from the 4th gen vs 5th gen chart onto the 4th gen USIM vs MEVI chart. If somebody can put together a more accurate comparison I would love to see it.

It's still obvious that the 5th gen IM is superior to the MEVI. If this can be done but only for lots of $$$ then it will be debatable if it is worth the extra money. However if this can be done for around the same cost as the MEVI then the choice is clear.

Bluebird

iTrader: (4)

Alright, seeing as I have the 99/99.5 ECU that has the same harness as the 2K+. Aside from the hood clearance issue, what kind of complications am I looking at with dropping a 2K+ engine in?

Dave B

I agree, it superior. A true dual runner design is best, but for the minimal gains over the MEVI plus all the money and extra headaches you'll have, I don't see why you'd really want to do it unless you've got money, time, and sanity to burn. Installing a 5th gen manifold is uncharted waters, it can be done, but how easily? I stared over and measured the manifold on Russ' 2k1 and compared to my 4th gens (side by side). The vacuum lines, fuel rails, clearance issues, throttle body and linkage, etc just looked like way too much work.


Dave

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

ok, according to taht graph, 4th gen maxima's without MEVI lose power after 5,000 rpm, YET our peak power comes at like 6100 rpm, it just doesnt make sense. Plus its well known that the higher in the rpm chain u go the faster the car gets, i dont mean in speed but at 5-6 rpm i still feel acceleration, atleast in 1st and 2nd gear.

Also I dont understand why the MEVI would NOT help out in the 1/4 mile. People say that it only really helps when you are going real fast on the highway, as if the MEVI only kicks in at like 5th gear. I thought it brings up the acceleration from 5-6 rpm that we supposedly lose. I plan on getting a MEVI and all but i just dont understand these situations i prseented...its like they contradict each other.

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

To understand horsepower you really need to understand where the equation comes from. HP = (torque*rpm)/5252
That's why horsepower numbers can be misleading. You can gain 10ft. lbs of torque @6000 rpms and get 11.42hp. If you gained the same 10 ft. lbs of torque @3000rpms you would only gain 5.71hp. Thus power later in the rpm range is better (for racing) than power earlier a la Hondas. This also lets you take advantage of gearing since you're in the high rpms when racing.

Actually the more torque you make the faster you will go through a rpm range. Drive a VI and you'll notice the difference.

With the VI you actually lose some power in the midrange, but you gain in the high end. This *should* be good for the track, but when you increase torque you also go through a rpm band faster. At the 1/4 mi this means you need to shift from 3-4 which usually occurs right before the finish line thus slowing your time some (this is why the JWT is useful). The gain in high gears like 5th gear is HUGE because you stay in the gear so long.
-hype

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Peak HP on a 4th gen without MEVI is about 5400rpm. With MEVI its about 6100 and stays there til redline.

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

wow, both u guys explained it well, i really want to drive in a max with a MEVI now...and they obviously havent made JWT ECU or any aftermarket ECU's for 97+ maxima's have they...?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

You can use a JWT in a 97-98 but not a 99.

hakk97se

That is to say, you can use a JWT modified 95/96 ECU in a 97-98 max and it'll work, with a check engine light.