I was busy today

I did some playing around with my suspension at the shop today. The H&R/AGX combo is to bouncy/firm up front for me, but the rear seems to ride nice. I took out the front AGX's and replaced them with good old Tokico Blues. They are much softer then AGX's and give a nice smooth ride when coupled with H&R springs. I left the rear AGX's in place so, the rear Tokico's are way to soft. Now I can adjust the damping when I'm carrying a load. I also installed the Motivational rear upper mounts and put KYB dust boots in so I have as much suspension travel as I can get.

Conclusion:
The car rides smooth as silk! This is just the combo I was looking for. No bounce, no bunny hops over dips, it just soaks it up with a nice smooth soft ride. You would never know my car was lowered if you were to ride in it.

If anybody is looking for a lowered look but does not want to compromise ride comfort, this is definately the way to go. It gives a very impressive smooth ride.

 

Glad you've finally found that "perfect combo".

So the Tokicos can handle the H&R's up front well enough? Many people have jacked up their AGX's to 3/6 to get rid of that crappy "bounce" associated with blown struts. So these ride smooth for ya, huh?

 

I still don't agree with the Tokicos, especially after a lot of members set their front AGX higher from 1 to 3 and their rear to 6 and their ride actually got smoother will less bounce, but if it works for you, then that's great.

But also keep in mind that the Tokicos are probably pretty close to an AGX setting of 2, which might explain why things feel better. And keep an eye on those Tokicos, if they blow on you, you wouldn't be the first member with that problem.

 

Good to hear you found a combination you like. And thanks for telling everyone a suspension setup that others can use if they are looking for stock ride. My question is, would a lower profile tire and larger wheels make the wheel gap on your car become less? I'm thinking about getting 19s, and some feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

im hoping the AGX's and KYB dust boots coupled with my cut H&R's will do the trick. My Tokico blues are on their way out.

Ant

 

Just looking at that pic, I bet it's riding directly on bumpstops. It must be quite bumpy. Looks nice, but it'll be rough with any shock. Bumpstops were never designed to be ridden on.

And AGXs are only warrantied for less than a 1.5in drop. Konis are warrantied for life, for any drop, as long as you don't internally bottom out the shock. Keep that in mind when you are shock shopping. And while you are shock shopping:
http://drewm.dyndns.org/~drew/maxfaq...p?MaximaShocks

 

that sig pic is photoshopped

 

drewm - If you had the two struts in your hands you can clearly feel the differance. The AGX's are very firm, very tough to compress, while you can compress the Tokico down with ease. It's a night and day difference in the two. Even set at 1, the AGX's are much firmer then Tokicos. I've been playing with both of these in my shop for most of the afternoon today. The AGX's are great struts, but there a little on the harsh side. Couple them with more agressive springs and the harshness and bounce gets worse, but I only notice this up front. The rear AGX's do a fantastic job keeping the rear beam planted on the road. I wount change them!

I just got back from a ride down the Parkway and I still can't belive how smooth the car rides. It's got a nice soft ride to it now. My suspension ABSORBES the road irregularities, it doesn' ride over them like it used to. The H&R's are a soft spring and the Tok's do a nice job dampening them. The rear Tok's are very soft and I think thats what gives them the bad rap. The rears also seem to fail quickly. At least thats what I've found when taking Tok's out for org members. The fronts always seem good, but the rears are like butter soft. Thats what causes the poor performance, a soft a$$.

I bet the Llluminas would be an even better choice over both the Blues and the AGX's. If they can be adjusted a bit firmer, but maintain the ability to give the ride like the Blues do, you'll have one awsome ride with great handling. I might be looking at them next Spring.... Ya never know...

P.S. Just for fun, I set my AGX's on 3 and 6, how the He11 do you guys ride around like that? It's like driving in a funny car the thing is so tight. Nothing gets absorbed, rather you seem to drive over and follow the road imperfections. To each is own I guess, I like a softer smooth ride over jittery ride. Thats the reason I baught a Maxima in the first place. I wanted a Luxury Sport Sedan, and now I've finally got just that.

I will admit, the AGX's coupled with the stock SE springs gives you an amazing ride. It's very firm & sporty yet smooth. The combo I'm sporting now is even smoother then that and 1.5 inches lower. How can you go wrong with that setup.

 

One of the main reasons I went with Toks up front was that you never hear anybody with the famous H&R/Tokico combo complain about a bouncy ride. The rear Toks' suck, there to soft and thats what throws off the handling. Get GR2's or better yet AGX's so you can tune them to the fronts and adjust them firmer when you have a load in the back.

 

I'll update my site with a little info abou the toks and the fronts being find while the rears are too soft

 

DOH! there goes my big secret

Ant

 

njmax-
thanks for replying to my post about shocks and struts.
i'm not looking for the lowered look, but i'm definitely looking for that very impressive smooth ride that you wrote about earlier in this post. The reason I also bought a Maxima was becuase I wanted a Luxury Sport Sedan, too. Tell me what do i need to buy inorder to get that smooth ride back? You mentioned tok struts with GR2 shocks in the rear. Is AGX's better for the rear? should i get H&R springs? Thanks

 

sorry i should have said you have coilovers

 

if u don't want to be lowered, all you have to do is replace your struts. you don't really have to worry about harshness because with the stock springs, any strut will feel softer compared to if you use a lowering spring.

if you want to be able to adjust your handling, get AGXs, if not, go for some GR2's or Tokico Blues, or maybe even OEM struts (but they are probably not worth what you would pay at the dealer)

 

Wait a minute, I could have sworn you said the MV mounts would do nothing I guess you agree that they do work, ehhhh

As for the ride issues, I don't understand how a softer strut helps things. You're right, the H&Rs are relatively soft, but they still need a lot of dampening to control their motion because they do have a higher rate than stock. Struts are just dampers, they really don't control the true firmness unless you really dial them up. I am one of the many that understand the need to run higher dampening with aftermarket springs. Higher spring rates can mean a bouncy, stiff, and harsh ride. The reason a lot of these Maximas ride like crap is because guys are running stock/GR2/Tokicos on higher rate springs. This is no good because after a while the springs wear out the struts because the springs require a lot of energy to control them. My opinion is that you need adjustable struts on any aftermarket spring in order to compensate for the higher rate.

My setup is H&Rs, Koni fronts, AGX rears, MV mounts, Stage I/II SFCs, 17" rims with 235/45 Sumitiomo HTR+ all year round. My car rides slightly softer than my wife's stock 98 Legacy GT wagon (16" with H-rated 205/55s) yet my Maxima handles far better. Only when I hit a larger bump does my car get harsher than her GT. What the biggest difference in ride quality in my car? The SFCs BY A LONG SHOT. Stiff chassis = better ride. I run 60% firmness with the front Konis and 5 with the AGXs.


Dave

 

Good thread. I'm riding on H&Rs with AGXs and the combo is too stiff for me. I agree that the rear AGXs aren't that bad, but the fronts are horrible, I'm talking about ride quality here. I had Sprints with Konis and that combo rode much better. I have tried almost all the setting for my H&R and AGX combo, none seem to satisfy me.

Tom, you think I should go with the Tokico up front too? I don't have the Motivational rear mounts though. Still, the ride isn't that bad for the rear. It's just the front that is so bad.

 

You are experiancing the same thing that bugged me while riding on H&R/AGX. It's only the front that seems to harsh. You don't really need the MV mounts, they do give you back 1" of travel, which is a good thing to have. (Yes Dave, you were right!) If your using KYB strut boots all around, you already have some travel back due to their smaller bump stop. If you want that smooth comfy ride like I've got now, get the Tok's up front, keep the rear AGX's. Think about going for Lllumina's so you can adjust them to your likes. The Tok's work really nice with H&R springs. I wouldn't put them (Blues) on any other spring (except stock) because I really don't think there strong enough to handle them. The front struts seem to work fine with H&R's for a nice smooth ride.

 

Maybe the Koni's are the better struts because more of the harshness in my car comes from the rear where the AGXs are


Dave

 

I'm using stock strut boots. Llluminas? Hm...haven't heard much about them on Maximas, I'm not sure if they are good or not.

I just checked out the pricing on the Tokico Blues and Illuminas. Blues are cheaper, so I think I'm going with the Blues.

 

I agree, rode in GC koni setup and the car rides better then my h&r/agx/mv mount setup. No stupid bounce on flat road and smoother on bumps. Maybe koni are softer struts?

cumalot: get konis! if they ride good w/ sprints the ride will be awsome with h&r

 

I'm so glad that somebody finally understands the problem with front KYB- thanks njmaxseltd !!!!
I went from sprints to h&r's and I wasn't to happy about the ride- especially - front of the car and that swaying over bumps - the car jumped over them instead of absorbing.

I already tried all the settings and now It's time to get some Tokico blue's - I just hope that somebody sells them individually - I hate to waste money on full set.

any links or sites selling them individually ????

Nick

 

costcowholesale: Konis are expensive.


nick: you could try what the route that I plan to go. Go them from www.southwestautoworks.com They sell the front and rear pairs separately. $184.10 for the front.

http://store.yahoo.com/southwestauto...smaxsusp1.html

 

last year when i got my KYB AGX i paid $360 shipped and now they are selling for $466 or something like that !!!!
dang - high demand = high prices !!!!!


looks like i'm going to dish out another $200 in to the suspension
I wish i never messed with it first place

Nick

 

it's Illuminas (Tok).....although from doing a ton of research Konis valving seems if not the best tied to be the best....although, the fronts are not a replacement..they are an insert.

Tom, glad you love your new setup.

 

 

Just had it aligned today, Jose at the alignment shop even commented on the ride. His exact words were, "you'd never know that thing was lowered".

Max drives like a real cruiser now.

Holy $hit As I'm sitting here writing this, a car just blew the stop sign at the corner where I live and T boned a Civic. Thats such a nasty sound.

 

ouch......

Hey Tom, I just picked up a set of Illuminas...I'll see how they ride with M.V mounts

 

I think that KONI up front and AGX in the rears would make for a sweet setup for just about any spring. KONI inserts have a range of quite soft (maybe slightly softer than OEM even) to very firm. It's definitely a boon to be about to adjust for you driving and tastes. For instance, on my H&Rs, I like full soft in the winter and from 1/2 turn to 1 turn in the summer. Also, as the inserts soften over time, you can compensate with the adjustability. No question the last strut(insert) you will ever own for the car. On the other hand, the KONI rear shocks are just too much hassle to adjust with any frequency.

 

uhhh $380 with free shipping or $355 from cattman:
http://drewm.dyndns.org/~drew/maxfaq...p?MaximaShocks

 

Well just ordered a pair of front Tokico Blues from www.southwestautoworks.com I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get them install. *crossing my fingers hoping for the best*

 

http://store.yahoo.com/southwestauto...ismaxkyba.html

 

That's what I've always said, Konis are great. I never knew the AGX was that bad though. My Koni/Eibach setup rides absolutely wonderful.

That's the thing about the Koni adjustments in the front, when the dial is turned all the way to the left, rebound dampening is set high and compression dampening is set low which still gives you a soft compression, but still absorbes the spring bounce through the high rebound setting, which I imagine the AGX doesn't do without turning them up higher. The rear shocks are the same way with the fixed compression setting and the adjustable rebound. Setting compression differently from rebound is a GREAT thing, and I don't see why everyone was knocking on it. You can set your car to how you want it to ride bumps, either to extend further, or compress more.

Koni is a very well respected company in the shock world, and if they made their settings that way, there's got to be a GOOD reason for them to do it that way. The AGX's adjustments are way less useful because they adjust compression and rebound together (supposedly).

 

So if they are so expensive there, don't buy from them! That's the freedom of choice. Buy from cattman who sells them for $355, or coximport who sells for $380 shipped.

 

you have tried many different combinations of springs/struts, seems like a different one every month

 

So Tom... Tokico Blues/H&R's up front ride better than Stock Springs/AGX up front???

 

Tom,

I hope you're right about your combination. To be honest, you have a very influential voice on the boards and people really listen to you. I know I have, that's why I originally bought AGXs for one of the max's (both max's have AGX though). I took your advice with AGX and stock springs and I haven't really been satisfied at all. It seems I get a lot of harshness and slight bounce while the gains aren't so noticiable. That's why I plan to return them to stock struts later on since I don't even use that car anymore (it's just a daily driver for my family and they don't need the performance I want).

It's funny becuase we all refer to springs with a higher rate of oscillation...my stock springs seem very stiff at times because I experience that annoying bounce w/ the AGX. I haven't touched the settings for a while yet but plan to in the near future.

It's tough to find a conclusion with the struts and springs theory of a 'nice ride.' I'm starting to think that Koni may have better valving that AGX. Not sure about the Illuminas...anyone have them yet?

 

the other day i drove a .org memeber's 5th gen with h&r gr2 combo..i was very amazed at the smoothness of the ride.. so much that i plan on getting the same combo, however, i have a 4th gen and i am wondering if it is going to be the same type of ride and look.. i sure hope so.. his ride was 10 times better in look, ride quality, and smoothness than my stock ride.

 

It's a very different ride, actually softer.

The stock/AGX combo I feel rides like a true sports car. I would recomend that setup to anybody who wants great handling without lowering their car. It's firm, not to harsh (for me anyhow) and provides great handling. I always got compliments from guys who drove my car with that setup. I usually ran the AGX settings on 1/2 sometimes up to 2/4 when I wanted to have some fun. Some people love a nice firm ride like that and some prefer a more smooth floaty ride.

I can relate to what your saying. That combo is a more sport car like ride. You probably would be better off with that Max back on Blues for that nice smooth luxury ride. Most guys on this board are looking for a firmer ride. Some don't want their car's dropped and I feel that combo is excellent, but as you've proven, it's not for everybody.
Believe it or not, the stock springs are pretty stiff, it's the ride height that makes them unattractive. Nissan couples them with a nice smooth strut and you get a softer smooth ride.
Try turning them all down to 1 and see how it feels. If your still on the factory settings, your AGX's are on 2/4 (thats how what they come set from the factory) and thats a pretty firm ride. If you really want to get that Max riding good, leave the AGX's in the back and toss Blues up front. That will save you some money and work. Make sure you turn the rear AGX's down to 1. Thats actually nice and soft, yet still gives the rear beam more control over stock or Blues.I agree, it's like a big experiment. Also keep in mind, what rides nice to some, may not feel good to others. Every shock is valved differently, you can feel the differences just by playing with them in your hands. Some have more compression dampening, others more rebound, and then some are just firm all around. What I've discovered over the past 2 years is that the AGX's & GR2's are great struts if your looking for a firm ride. Tokico Blue's are basically a stock replacement. The Blues have slightly more compression dampening and less rebound then the stock struts. You can feel this if you compress them both side by side.

I've done so many suspension installs lately that I've had just about every combo in my hands. The only two struts I've not played with are Koni's and the Lllumina's. I hear nothing but great feedback from guys with Koni's and the Acura guys seem to like them too. I believe the Lllumina's will be a step up from the Blues in regards to handling/firmness and KYB's line up is just all out firm.

 

I have a 95 gxe and planning to change the strut front and rear but using the same original stock spring with tokico(front) and agr (rear). Any comments. I don't plan to install myself but bring to a mechanic.Any estimate for installation fee.

 

You'll wind up with a nice ride. The front Tokico will give you a nice smooth ride while the AGX in the rear will keep the rear beam planted on the road nicely. Have your mechanic turn the AGX's down to 1 (they come set at 4) and tweak them up (firmer) as you like.

The nice thing about that setup is you can compensate for a load just by turning up the dampening in the rear when you have 4 people or a lot of luggage in your car.

Also have your mechanic install the rear AGX's with the adjustment dials facing inwards. If he puts them in facing out, you can't get to the adjustment **** unless you take the wheels off. If there facing in, you can easily get your hand around the back and turn the ****.