I've always been disapointed with the stock 4th gen brakes, especially since my previous car was a tarmac shredding Volvo 850 Turbo with T1-S tires. Being not one to waste, I didn't want to do anything to the brakes until they actually needed work. Judging by the thickness of the pads and rotors, it would be another year or so of brake pads, and years of rotors. This was disapointing.

However, my car was not driven for a while, a couple months ago, and rust built up on the rotors . . . a lot of rust. When I started driving the car again, the rust build up was so severe it caused rapid brake pad wear, as well as mashing rust into the transfer film, and the rotor itself. See here for pics of the old rotors.

http://www.geocities.com/sinsmaxima/Brakes/

When the indicators made their squealing appeals, I decided to start shopping for new pads to run with my stock rotors. I ended up going with the KVR carbon metallic. It is supposedly a carbon fibre compound with metallic. They were recommended to me by black5spdmax, a.k.a. Dave B.. He swore up and down that they were siginificantly better than stock. Since I have been in his car while he pulled some pretty unsafe manouvres, and trusted these pads as much as he did, I thought I'd give them a go.

Getting the car up on 4 jack stands, and removing the calipers took less than an hour. I was VERY VERY happy to see that ALL the pads wore evenly. All wore to similar thicknesses, with no slanted wear. Also, all my slide pins required next to no pressure to move. Needless to say, I was surprised and very happy.

After that, I was stuck. Couldn't get the rotors off. No amount of banging could get these 5 year old rotors off. I ended up having to network myself some bolts to bolt into the rotor to push them off the hub. Well, costcowholesale, a.k.a. Dennis had the rear bolt, but not the front. He graciously brought his over to my place, and tried to get me the front bolt from the dealership. Thanks for returning the favor Den. Well, I used Dennis' bolt to remove the rear rotors. Took all of 10 seconds of ratcheting the bolt. Honestly guys

***IF YOU WANT TO REMOVE THE ROTORS AND LIVE IN THE SALT BELT, GET BOLTS TO PUSH THE ROTORS OFF***

Well, that was the rears, what about the fronts? Dennis remembered reading about how an engine mount bolt could be used on the front. Since I have made polyurethane engine mounts before, I was intimately aware of the components, but could not think of a bolt that would work. The bolts on the engine mounts are significantly larger than the threaded hole on the rotor. Well, I thought to myself, what about the upper engine mounts, they have significantly smaller bolts. I pulled off one bolt that looked like it could work. I was instilled by my father to develop the skill of looking at a bolt/nut head, and determining the appropriate sized socket/wrench, which you won't believe how great of a skill it is until you've developed it. The ability to see a bolt, not even read the wrench/socket you're pulling out, and it being the right one, just because you know it is just by looking at it. Anyways, I pulled the bolt off, and tried it on the front rotors. Boo yah. I now had the rotors off. Time to take the abuse off them.

I started with a wire brush attachment on an 18V drill to rip off as much rust as I could off the rotors and hubs. This took a considerable amount of time. In fact, I spent more time removing rust than anything else. I had to remove rust from the shims and the hubs as well. Took less than an hour to get everything off, about 1.5 hours of rust removal, and 45 minutes to get everything back on. To prevent the rotors from getting stuck again, I anti-seized the hubs before reinstalling the rotors. After removing the rust off the non contact parts of the rotor, I started using some emory cloth to first remove the rust and transfer film gunk, then to cross hatch the rotor. The gunk was practially a ceramic glaze on the rotors, and was surprisingly hard. This also took some time because of the severity of the contamination, but was still significantly quicker than removing rust from the rest of the rotor. If you look at the same link above, you'll find pics of the rotors after cleaning, cross hatching, and bedding.

Later that night, I went out to break the pads in. Did a couple 80-20km/h decelerations with adequate time in between to let everything cool, never allowing the car to stop. I then repeated with 120-40km/h. By this time, I was already smiling with glee over the DRASTICALLY improved braking. It was all I could do to call Dave and report my delight over the KVR pads.

 

As for the performance of the pads, here goes.

The KVR's don't bite quite as hard as you would espect on the first drive in the morning. These pads like heat. The first stop in the cold morning will require a bit more pedal pressure than you think. But the first decent stop from even a low speed of 40km/h, and they are back to normal.

When warmed up, WAY more bite. And more importantly, they bite harder and harder and harder, the harder you push down on the pedal. Where the stock pads would heat and fade rather quickly from a deceleration of say 140km/h to 80km/h, with the KVR's, after 140-80km/h, they haven't even begun to fade yet. Where the stock pads would overheat and fade, and just become useless, the KVR's don't even feel stressed yet. In fact, today, while trying to find the limits of the pads, I have come to the conclusion that the Toyo A05 tires, which are pretty decent tires, but by no means an S0-3 or T1-S or anything like that, I am unable to overwhelm the brakes now with these tires, whereas with the stockers, 80km/h+ would overwhelm the brakes before the tires.

And just so you guys know, I have Motul RBF600 in, and it's less than a year old, and was brand new on the stock parts, and about 10 months old now on the KVR's. So if anything, the stockers had the advantage fluid-wise.

As for noise, none to report yet. I used high temp lube specific to brake applications on the backs of the pads and shims, and the shims and lube together seem to be doing their job well.

As for dust, wear and wear on rotor, since it's only been a day with them, can't really say. I'll definetly update. According to Dave, they are pretty gentle on rotors (I think he's gone through two sets of them now), as well as producing about half the dust of the stockers. Which to me is remarkable coming from a European car, which as most of you know, are prone to good braking with ridiculous amount of black dust.

KVR Pros:
- way better initial bite
- way more bite after intial bite
- don't fade nearly as easily as the stockers (you won't be able to fade them with anything but atleast an ultra high performance tire)
- CHEAP, paid less than $150 Can after $8 shipping and 15% tax.
- no noise

KVR Con:
- first brake in the morning is not as good as you expect

KVR Unknowns:
- wear
- wear on rotors

Verdict: KVR pads are a HUGE step up from the stockers.

 

That was an informative write-up Sin.

 

Thanks man. Just figured I'd try to contribute. I haven't been modding lately, so not much to report.

 

Can you explain the procedure for removing a rusted-on rotor? What bolt size and where/how to use it to get the rotor off? I've got a rusted-on rotor and don't know how to get it off.

Thanks

 

abreviated version

 

Sin, can you tell me where you bought them from?

I'm from Toronto and am in the market for some pads soon.

 

nobel: I had KVR pads before that I bought form Performance Improvements. They have at least a couple locations in the GTA (1) Queensway/Islington area (2) Kennedy/Lawrence. http://www.performanceimprovements.com/

I'm not sure if they have the best prices though.

 

Very nice write-up...good storyline.

 

Very interesting write up. I am going to need new a new brake system this summer, and was going to go with Phoung (GotRice.com's) package deal but now I am going to opt for the KVR pads instead.
-Cyrus

 

The braking you describe is basically the same feel I have with the Axxis Metal Masters. (Stillen Setup)

Nice job reconditioning your own rotors, very smart idea.

 

Sure, the rotors have some threaded holes in them in the general area where the holes for the lug bolts are. You can use a bolt with the proper diameter and thread pitch to screw into the rotor. The bolt required for the rears are a little smaller than the bolt required for the front rotors. I don't know the bolt sizes as the rears were brought to me. But for the fronts, you can use the top bolt on the upper engine mount on the passenger side.

 

I bought them from a shop called QMR Motorsports or something. Can't really remember. They actually have two shops running out of that one property. They are up in the Martingrove and Hwy 7 area a.k.a. Woodbridge. Just call them a couple days in advance, and they'll order it for you. Takes likes 1-2 days to get them in. Tell them Sin sent you. They'll remember me.

 

I tried PI too. I was originally told it was about $70 for the fronts and rears by someone that bought them there before. The price has gone up a bit. I believe they are charging about $90 for the fronts and $60 for the rears, with no taxes yet. So it's a bit more, like $20 plus tax more than QMR's prices which are like $80 for the fronts and $50 for the rears. So if you're already on the east side, it may not be worth it for you to go all the way out to QMR.

 

Thanks man. I've been resurfacing rotors for a while now. It's really easy as you can see. As long as there is no warpage, no grooves or shallow grooves, and adequate thickness to last for the life of the new pads, there is no reason not to resurface rotors when you change pads. Especially if glazed or otherwise abused.

 

edit: at the dealership I paid $6 for 2 bolts it was a rip off
read the title kvr pads = dang

what do you think? kvr vs nippon?

try hawks HPS

I'll do it next time I have my wheels off, but I dont think it'll work on zinc plated rotors it'll just rub the stuff off

 

"what do you think? kvr vs nippon?"

Never tried or been in a car with the nippons, so I can't say from personal experience. But judging from the fact that they are a self-proclaimed Nissan OE economy alternative, I bet they are only about as good as stock.

"try hawks HPS "

I've heard Hawks are badass in either HPS or HP+, by Maxima and Volvo owners, as well as autocrossers in Talons, RX-7's, etc. alike. However, I've also heard they are relentless on rotors and have some squeak problems on some cars. Don't forget, the HP+ is a race pad, and will probably not be too fun in the city with the infrequent brake usage allowing them to cool beyond they working range.

 

Dang! I was just at Alta Nissan to pick up some parts for someone. Are they located on the south east corner where all those dealerships are?

Sin, I'm also developing a shallow groove in my right front rotor.... Is this a sign that the brake pad may be dragging something? Should I change the pads and that 1 rotor? I'm of the impression pads/rotors should be changed in pairs. ie. if i change the front passenger, i should also change the front driver? I'll try to post a pic of my rotor this afternoon.

thanks!

 

Oh, if you know where Alta is, that's easy then. Instead of driving east off of Martingrove to Alta, drive west on the same intersection. At the end of the road, it curves south. Keep driving south about 3 complexes. You'll see a complex with some car shops in it. That's the one. It's near the south west corner of the complex.

The groove could be caused by wear indicator, but is most likely caused by contamination, i.e. a small stone. If it's a shallow groove, then don't worry about it, just resurface, slap on new pads and you should be fine. Just make sure you have adequate rotor thickness, which you probably will have. You are right about the pair thing.

 

Bump for Nosamo.

 

Hey thanks Sin, but my problem is that my front rotors don't have that extra hole to fit a screw in. Your help is greatly appreciated, I guess I'll go the way of a caveman and start hitting it.

 

An idea just occured to me. One way that mechanics have always removed stubborn RIMS from cars is by loosening the lugs a bit, and driving around for a little, like 100 meters or something. If you did this, it may crack the rotor loose from the rust just the way it would a rim from the rotor.

 

Interesting idea, but I got them buggers off. All it took was a heavy hammer some rotation and a few good swings and off they came! It was such a wonderful feeling when I heard the freedom hit. Thanks for all the help!

Mason

 

For the rotors, use Brembo blanks. For the pads, use factory OEM. I found this to be the best combo after numerous brake jobs. Don't forget to replace all shims from the factory kit.

 

Sin, now that you've had the KVR pads on for a little while, can you comment on their wear? How are they holding up so far?

BTW, I called a Nissan dealership for a quote on front pads..... $103
I called up Performance Improvements and they gave me a price of $69.99 then I called up QMR that you suggested and they gave me a price of $55 + $8 shipping which is still cheaper than PI's price. It may take a few days for shipping, so depending on how long it takes, otherwise i'll got to PI and get them........ I might as well pick up some rears while I'm at it. Seems like the prices may have gone down a bit after you bought them.... My luck they may just go up when I do decide to pick'em up.

So those are some latest updated prices as of last Thursday. Hope that helps anyone who is interested.

 

"Sin, now that you've had the KVR pads on for a little while, can you comment on their wear? How are they holding up so far?"

I was just about to post an update on my experience with the pads. Guess you read my mind.

Well, here goes.

Wear: I measured the pad thickness and rotor thickness, and surprise surprise, next to no wear on either.

Noise: Still silent

Dust: About as much as stock, which is to say, very little.

The pads still perform great. Still bite hard, quiet, wear slowly, gentle on rotors, dust about as much as stock. The only negative thing about the pads I have found is, you need to brake hard with them every now and then. If you don't, you tend to get an odd material layer on the rotor. One hard stop or two, and they go clean again with a nice transfer film. But to get maximum performance out of KVR's, you really need to brake hard with them every now and then. It's as if the transfer film breaks if you don't brake hard with the pads every now and then.

"BTW, I called a Nissan dealership for a quote on front pads..... $103
I called up Performance Improvements and they gave me a price of $69.99 then I called up QMR that you suggested and they gave me a price of $55 + $8 shipping which is still cheaper than PI's price. It may take a few days for shipping, so depending on how long it takes, otherwise i'll got to PI and get them........ I might as well pick up some rears while I'm at it. Seems like the prices may have gone down a bit after you bought them.... My luck they may just go up when I do decide to pick'em up."

My pricing on the pads was just under $150 for a set of fronts and rears, after taxes. The rears are like $10-20 more than the fronts for some reason. It seems as if EVERYTHING for the rear brakes, i.e. rotors and pads, costs more on the rear for some unknown reason. So $55+8 for the fronts sounds about right. PI can get them in 1 day if you order before 3pm, IF their supplier has them in stock. QMR, can't remember, they arrived when I was leaving for this music festival out of town.