I'm starting to get into the habit of shifting without my clutch, especially when pulling the car (96 GXE, 5sp) out of gear to slow down. Am I ****ing up the tranny or am I actually doing the clutch and drivetrain a favor? I don't pop it into gear as much without the clutch (esp. past the 1-2 shift, 3rd is a ***** with the clutch!)

Nick

 

You may be doing your clutch a favor, but definatly not your tranny...whats more expensive to replace? a tranny or a clutch...

 

Yeah, I highly recommend pop shifting a standard max tranny. But, you know, I don't use it all the time either...in fact, I don't even use the stick, I shift with my mind. Funny though, it doesn't really seem to get past 30mph, and it's really loud all the time. I'm actually dissapointed with it...damn POS.

Okay, seriously, it's not a Chevelle. You really don't need to do that to your max. Just buy a ST shifter and practice the gates with the clutch. I've got a completely stock tranny that slips a bit when really cold, but in warm weather, I can shift the hell out of that thing really quickly, and with using the clutch. Be nice to your max; Nissan hard tests the engines, but I don't think they test the tranny's in the way that you are using it. Even pulling it out of gear after you let off the accelerator can slowly wear it down.

 

Are u sure about that?? I do that all the time cause it gets to be a pain in the azz to push the clutch in everytime I wanna come to a stop. The way I do it, it's hard to believe that any damage is goin on. I don't pull it out of gear, it comes out pretty easily right when I let off the gas. But if you do it wrong and just yank it out of gear, yes that is probably stress on the tranny.

Oh but I never put it IN gear without the clutch cause that definitely puts stress on the tranny. Plus, it's fun to use the clutch.lol
-Paul

 

Which is it?

Use the clutch, that's what its there for.

 

I was always told to use the clutch, and it is hard to believe that it is doing any damage, but if I think about what is going on when I do that, I just don't get a warm feeling about it. You really can't disengage the gears w/o the clutch while you are accelerating because of the amount of force involved, but everything is still spinning when you let off the gas, so it just makes sense to me that it really isn't good for the tranny.

 

GREAT!!! End of thread!

 

Thanks for the replys.

I know if I don't hit the shift INTO gear I can grind it if I time it wrong, obviously this damages the trans, but I don't understand what could possibly wear out pulling it out of gear. Anyone know how this can damage the tranny?

 

I don't know bout you guys but my tranny does not like to come out gear without depressing the clutch pedal I'm sure you'll wear or have worn something out.

 

it does, youre probably not doing it right.. you have to do it right at the moment when u release your gas pedal, and your car lurches forward a little because of its momentum.. you should be able to pop your gear shift right into neutral at this point.

 

I don't mean I'm yanking this thing out of gear with force or anything.

Try it - when you're in gear and accelerating (try this in 2nd or 3rd, they are the easiest to disengage), put some pressure on the shifter in the direction of neutral. When you let off the gas (you have to be accelerating, even if its slight. This doesn't work when I'm just cruising in a gear) the shifter will pop right out of the gear its in into neutral.

 

do u sometimes feel a lil click when u get it out? i do, when i did it once, and i'll never do it again, i dont wanna cause damage to this trans!

 

I heard about these new cars that you don't have to push any clutch in OR shift gears!!!! There called "Automatics". I know it sounds pretty cool hu?... If your to ****ing lazy to push in a clutch and move a stick 3in then you should try one of these "Automatics" instesd of messing up your tranny (or even chancing it for that matter).

 

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

OR....get SMG!

 

this is the dumbest thread ive ever seen.

 

Thanks for the constructive reply.

I don't do it because I'm '****ing lazy', I do it out of habit and because the person that taught me to drive stick did it. Their car (late 80's Celica Manual) had been on its original tranny after close to 200k before the rust finally got to the body. I was told that is the easiest, fastest, least destructive way to get the car into neutral coming to a light - using the cluch is a waste in this situation.

I sold my automatic Maxima 4 months ago and bought this 5 speed off a board member, so this isn't a matter of wishing my car was a manual or being lazy. I would never go back to auto, even after my share of NYC traffic with the ACT clutch.

It seems to be a not-so-rare practice to pull the car out of gear without a clutch, and just wanted to see if I'm doing any damage to the trans.

 

Classic ORG ire. Gotta love it.

 

Putz!.....

 

Shifting without the clutch will wear out your synchros and will not make you any faster at all. It's completely pointless and will damage your transmission severely in the long term.

Taking it out of gear with the clutch engaged isn't AS bad, but I would tend to think that it would sill wear the synchros more and possibly end up causing more damage in the long term. It's not meant to be loaded up when you pull it out of egar...you're bettter off just pushing the clutch.

Check this out for pretty good diagrams (moving!) of exactly how a 5 speed works. We all get the general idea but these gave me a much more exact picture and taught me why just rev-matching is not as good at saving wear on your synchros during hard downshifts as double clutching even though we have synchros (hint: layshaft). really cool...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

 

don't quote me on this but i believe that maxima tranny only has synchros on 1st, 2nd, and reverse.

 

Actually I'm pretty sure the Max has synchros in 2nd - 5th (or else if you didn't revmatch a downshift anywhere in those gears, you'd grind). I don't know about 1st and reverse tho. The only reason I say that is because downshifting to 1st gear is damn near immpossible, and also usually recommended you don't do. Reverse doesn't need a synchro.

Don't quote me on this either, I don't know what I'm talking about

 

I away enjoy listening to misguided newbies rage on about how to drive a manual trans. Cracks me up!!! ;-)

Ok, here it is. I started driving a manual in 1969 (when I learned to drive.) I have become very familiar with the inner workings of manual transmissions having broken several because of a compulsive need to beat the **** out of my car when I was a misguided newbie that had all the answers (but failed to realize that I was answering the wrong questions.) Like I said, listening to some of these responses just makes me LOL.

FACT:
It does NOT damage, hurt, wear out or in any other way compromise the integrity of a transmission to shift it into neutral with the clutch still engaged -- AS LONG AS IT IS DONE RIGHT. When done right, it puts no more wear and tear on your transmission than when you perform a normal up or down shift which necessitates that the transmission momentarily pass through neutral.

HOW COME?
When the transmission is under a load (accelerating and decelerating). It is effectively "locked" in gear. If you try to yank the shifter into neutral when the trans is under a load, you normally won't be able to do so without resorting to EXCESSIVE force. Which CAN damage the transmission. OK, so you're thinking "Well, Duh!" The thing is, there is a split-second when letting off the gas that the trans is no longer under a load. At that split second, you can pull the trans into neutral with nearly "ZERO" effort -- meaning that there will be no damage done, no extra wear and tear inflicted on the poor, unsuspecting transmission AND (this is the point lost to many of you) no extra wear and tear on the clutch assembly either. BTW: synchros for ALL forward gears (1-5) not on reverse.

DO YOUR OWN THING.
So to those of you who like to shift without the clutch or just gotta down shift through each gear when coming to a stop; knock yourself out. For those of you with a clue, it just takes a little practice. It's a timing thing. During the transition from accelerating (or just cruising along maintaining a constant speed) to decelerating (due to engine braking), at the moment you lift your foot off the accelerator, apply slight pressure on the shifter. At that moment, the trans can easily slip into neutral.

BTW, no insults intended, I'm 50 years old and well, sometime you guys just make me laugh. Nothing malicious intended. No condescension intended. I love my Max. I am happy I waited (almost 4 months) to get one with a 5sp. I've lowered it (HRs w/KYB AGXs) and got clear corners for it. I've got Kosie K1 Racing wheels. Looking at a Y-pipe and tinting next. Also, my dragbike (Kawasaki KZ100) runs the quarter mile in the 9.30-9.50 range at 135-138 mph. I like cars, bikes, hot rodding and drag racing -- in short; I'm an enthusiast like most of you.

PEACE.

PS. A moment of silence is in order today lest we forget: September 11.

 

True. However, is it worth it? What if you don't disengage the gear at the correct time?

Clutches are cheap. Let them do their job. I can not think of a good reason to shift (in or out of gear) without using the clutch.

I could stop the car with just the parking brake, and it would save wear on the front breaks, but that doesn't make it a good idea!


Got pics?

 

Hey ejj how ya doin?

Yea, you need to be careful, but no more so than during normal shifting. During a normal shift the trans goes through neutral - no problem there. The IMPORTANT parts the trans must be "unloaded" -- whether shifting to another gear or slipping into neutral.

You can "force" the trans to unload with the clutch OR you can wait for the moment when the trans is "naturally" unloaded -- that moment between accelerating and decelerating, in other words: coasting.

So if the trans is not passing power (engine to wheels or wheels to engine) and this can occur equally via the clutch or when coasting, there will be no wear on the trans. Additionally, slipping out of gear into neutral also eliminates wear on the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, clutch master/slave cylinders, clutch pedal AND my leg. ;-0


BTW, I don't consider clutches to be cheap.
BTW2, I do have pics of me racing my bike but no place to host them.
If you're interested: 60' times (best) 1.301 average 1.35. 1/8 mile (best) 5.84 average 6.0's @ 112-116mph. I've been racing at a new 1/8 mile track. I kind of like 1/8 mile racing, very quick race!

 

If you don't want to use your clutch....might as well get an automagic!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, I know exactly what you're talking about, and have done it numerous times.

My thinking is this: We all know how frail 4th gen manual tranny's are. They've been known to have their share of problems. A clutch is made to take that "abuse". I'd rather replace a $300 clutch than rebuild/replace $1000+ tranny.

I will glady concede that you can shift the tranny into neutral without causing damage. I just don't see the point.

Wow, 112+ in the 1/8th? Nuts. I'm always amazed watching the bike guys at the track. Must take *****-of-steel to hold onto a bike moving that fast. Don't think I could do it!

 

ejj,

I've done it for so long, I do it w/o thinking about it!
Just two fingers on the shifter (1st, 3rd or 5th) or palm of the hand (2nd or 4th) with a quick, light push or pull at the moment I ease off the throttle and it slips into neutal -- easy as can be.

Yup, love the bike: 0-60 under 2 seconds, 0-100 around 5. On a good pass, it is soooo smooth it would suprise you. AND, I don't use the clutch to up-shift. :-)

Disclaimer to all who read this: do not attempt to up-shift your max without the clutch while racing (or any other time for that matter.) Motorcycle transmission are not like car transmissions in that motorcycle transmissions use a different way to "lock" the driven and driving gear pair together. And, they don't use synchros!

 

See that's the key word. That's true that there is a moment of no load, and I suspect you're right that you can pull it out withoput damage at that moment (as I said, "It's not meant to be loaded up when you pull it out of gear") but if you're not hitting it right you are going to **** up the transmission....and how many people here do you think are going to be doing it right?

As far as clutchless shifting in general goes, you have to remember that most people here aren't going to go out and get a beater to practice on. Yea maybe they won't damage their transmissions once they are completely profficient, but how much damage are they going to do learning to get the timing and rev matching right? Given the fact that clutchless shifting has been *proven* not to give any gains in terms of your acceleration numbers, why would you want to **** your car up learning to do it? Maybe I'm a suckass driver, but I have been learning to rev match since I bought this car in 98 and I *still* don't hit it perfectly every single time. Even though I get it most of the time, that's still a significant amount of abuse on your transmission.

The problem I have with your statement is that you are making it out like it's not a big deal. If you have a beater to go out and learn on it isn't a big deal. But when you're trying to learn on a new car that's your only car, pride and joy and all that, it most definitely *IS* a big deal to be trashing the transmission like that. You don't just go to the boneyard and buy another 3 speed and change out the transmission on the street in front your house with jack stands like you did in the old days, man. Nowadays you're talking about serious labor and expense to do it yourself and thousands and thousands of dolalrs to have it done for you. Why would anyone want to risk that for an activity that produces *no* gains in speed at all? Why would you not just use the clutch?

 

THAT is what I'm talking about. Thank you.

 

Your unabated wit is refreshing yet somehow...remiss.


paw-kz1k it's ok to laugh at us and call us newbies if you take the effort to educate us. I hope I'm pushin modded whips when I'm 50. Keep rolling.

 

Hi endus

I was actually responding to the comment by maxcross:

"Even pulling it out of gear after you let off the accelerator can slowly wear it down."

I was just pointing out that pulling the trans into neutral is no more (or less) probematic, risky or difficult than the more routine up (or down) shift. Whether shifting gears OR pulling the trans into neutral, the driver must "do it correctly" to minimize wear and tear, etc. I don't see much of a difference in that regard.

Regading clutchless shifting. I guess I don't consider pulling the trans into neutral to be "shifting." I have heard people talk (in other threads) about shifting w/o the clutch, and purhaps I misunderstood them, but I got the sense that they where refering to up shifting when hot rodding their max because they also refered to power-shifting and speed-shifting in the same paragraph. Maybe early onset of alzhimers on my part. (sp?)

Anyway that's all I was trying to say.

 

Gotcha...just wanted to make sure people were clear....

 

Exactly what I am getting at. Apparently, I was misled by my father who, it seems, was trying to protect his investment when he told me not to do it. I think that was his general point, if it's done wrong, it can be damaging, and he was just trying to avoid that. Me being rebellious had done it anyway, but still found it to be a pain in the a$$, mostly because I was doing it when coming to a stop and kept forgetting to put it back in gear if the light turned green while I was still drifting towards it. Thanks for the info, though. It's nice to get correct info from old-heads!!! j/k!!! I do appreciate it though.

Cross

 

Hopefully this thread is done. So pretty much -
pulling out of gear to neutral, fine. Upshifting without clutch, bad.